The Best CIS ?

[macrovision]

I've seen aussie cis web sites before...I found one http://www.ausmedia.com.au/epson_cis_system.htm or this one http://www.sinopis.com.au/products.php?type=fullset_epson

[bidefordboy]

@ Idle

If you go back through my previous post's you will see I had the JWLSales system on my r300 untll I had similar problems with it. It is the same system as you purchased. In fact because the guy you purchased your's from was selling it cheaper, JWL had to reduce his price to compete. His original price was $95 (which is what I paid).
The system I have now (Toppy-Jess) is descibed on page one, with information on how I have it fitted. The system is available from different seller's on ebay at different prices.
All I can say is that it is running perfectly at the moment, & uses a helluva lot less ink than the JWL kit. The only problem I had was that it was supplied with the wrong chip's, so if you are considering this system then email the seller before purchase to make sure it is fitted with the 90% chip's. I know he ship's worldwide for $35.

[macrovision]

I know what you mean Bidefordboy, My printonadime kit uses less ink also...I've printed almost 50 full face color DVD's over the past two days and my tanks are only 30ml...It took about an inch off the top and when you look at the fact that it did two massive autocleanings before I left it on all the time It used most of the ink doing the autocleans...as a matter of a fact I've been trying to make it autoreset to see if it will be at 90% and after 50 DVD's the levels seem to be the same so I used the ssc service utility to check the percentage and it only dropped about 4 percent....WOW!

[Idle]

Thanks for the replies.

I've seen aussie cis web sites before...I found one http://www.ausmedia.com.au/epson_cis_system.htm or this one http://www.sinopis.com.au/products.php?type=fullset_epson

Yes, I've looked at those in the past.

AUSMEDIA (AKA 'The Scanner Place', 'The Scanner and Printer Place' etc.) is only ten minutes drive from my home and I've bought various items from them in the past.

Their kit is $99 Australian for what is basically a hobby-shop box of parts -- you even have to fit your own cartridge chips, connect and seal your own tubes etc., fill and prime the set, plus it uses ordinary (read 'awkward, easy-spill') bottles and ink is extra.

Their (probably very good) ink is highly priced -- 125 mil of each colour will cost you the price of an R310 printer, complete with a set of OEM carts (I can get ink delivered from Sydney at $69 per litre, $414 for the set of 6 -- trouble is, I can't see it first and got no reply to an exploratory email...)

SINOPIS is again obviously Chinese (Sino means Chinese, pis might refer to the Chinese ink -- a lot of what I've seen smells like it...) (Permanent Ink System, actually.)

Their unit looks good, there's lots of information on setup and use, but when you really look there's little to be learned about its quality, no information on price, and hardest of all: Where can you get it? They seem to be mostly looking for resellers.

I did find it on Ebay at (from memory) $180 or $190 with ink -- 60 mil bottles I think.

I'm somewhat intrigued by the way they fit it to the R series printers -- looks neat and fits on the left side, which is exactly where it should be on the R300's with all the controls on the right.

Might try one if I can get my hands on it.

The other one I'm sure of here (Ozmods) currently shows 'no stock' and pricing is generally similar to Ausmedia. I did order a few ARC chips from Steve just to play with -- who knows, it might not be all that hard to fit the tanks and tubes from the existing unit to a spent set of OEM carts, which ought to fix the valving problem.

Depends on how hard it is to remove the OEM chips, of course.

Again, might try the Toppy-Jess unit, but he charges $US10 more for shipping (from Hong Kong? -- looks like it is, even though he says US) than the competition with no indication that the cartridges are any better than those I already have, which are obviously crap.

So far it's been an interesting exercise and I've lost little or nothing, for I did use about two sets worth of the Chinese ink before the thing fell over -- still have quite a bit left, of course.

In passing, I re-printed a couple of photos with the OEM ink at the same settings and compared them with the smelly Chinese stuff -- there's quite a difference, but nothing you couldn't profile out.

[Acrimony]

For those of you talking about the head cleanings after the chip resets, Try this. I'm currently using the JLWSales kit, purchased about a month ago. When my ink goes below 20% I simply treat it as if I was replacing the carts. Hit the button that brings the carriage to the refill position, and hit it agian so it goes back. Then check your ink in the Epson utility. It will be full and does NOT do a cleaning cycle.

I was doing the, turn the printer off and back on, deal in order to reset the carts and of course it was doing a cleaning cycle everytime. I've done it the standard cart replacement way to all 6 carts now and every single one of them reset to 100% without doing a cleaning cycle.

Also let me add that I have had only a few issues with my JLWSales kit. Occassionaly when the cart reports that ink is low I will get ink drops on my prints. But as soon as the cart resets it's fine (and it's not doing a cleaning cycle so it's not that). I'm thinking about ordering a new CIS though once the ink runs out on this one, as I'd much rather own one from an American company, so that if any problems arise it won't be as much of a hassle as dealing with someone who doesn't speak English all that well and lives half a world a way.

Macro:
Can you share the info you PM'd about cleaning the waste pads?

[macrovision]

Acimony, I posted the directions in the jlwsales R200 cis review forum on page 26.....And of course thanks for the info on resetting problems!

[Acrimony]

Do you by any chance have a service manual for the R200/R300 macro? I want to take mine apart and clean everything up as there appears to be some ink that leaked into other parts. Plus there is another pad on the left hand side that needs cleaning.

I can't figure out how to get the housing off of this damn thing though, and searching google has been fruitless as I can't find a service manual for this printer anywhere. If you happen to have one, or can instruct me on how to remove the housing I'd really appreciate it.

[bidefordboy]

The full service manuel for the r300 is available here :-

http://forum.ozmods.com/

You will have to register first. It's in the Firmware & Utilities section.

[ekiny3k]

I have a set of pigment 8 color ink from JLWsales. I bought from him for $110, but my printer got some errors, and i haven't used the ink. I would sell it back for $65.00 included shipping. If you want it, please email me at gonsongtinhyeu@yahoo.com. Thank you.

[macrovision]

Bidefordboy...You scare me.....you know where to get service manuals...are you a technician? Getting the housing off is meaningless unless your a tech because the insides has so many screws and smaller important parts(springs..ect.) not to mention the chassis upon chassis construction that it looks like NASA put it together for Epson!

[bidefordboy]

Hi again Mac,
Before I purchased my first cis I did a google search, just typed in 'continuous ink system', & started checking out all the sites. Actually, the first one I looked at was this one :-
http://www.eddiem.com/photo/CIS/cis.htm
It nearly put me off the whole idea, so ugly.
But I suppose that's how they all started.
Then I spotted the one sold by ozmod's (they have stopped selling them now), and was quite impressed at the time so I registered because that was the only way you could get the good stuff.
Downloaded the manuel, but when I saw how complicated it was inside I did'nt bother to even open my printer.
Would rather get my information from guy's like you that have plenty of practical experience.

[macrovision]

That's a nice way of putting things Bidefordboy...Thank you....I've noticed your CHI.....very Disciplined so you still scare me!

[Acrimony]

Getting the housing off is meaningless unless your a tech because the insides has so many screws and smaller important parts(springs..ect.) not to mention the chassis upon chassis construction that it looks like NASA put it together for Epson!

I don't mean to sound condescending (honestly), but saying someone is a "tech" is a fairly meaningless phrase these days. The majoirty of people you run across on hardware forums aren't "techs", but most know more than any technician you'll find in a shop. They simply didn't take the time or money to go to some class or trade school for a piece of paper verifying their ability.

I'm no certified tech, but I'm not a fool either. I know my way around hardware and have taken many things apart before. Right now I'm just having difficulty removing the housing, because it doesn't want to seem to come off of the top part of the shell. I've tried looking for screws to remove but can't see or feel any. By top part of the shell I'm referring to the silver piece on each side, the bottom simply pops off when you push it over the feet, but the top appears to be glued to the black casing underneath it.

I managed to find that R300 manual last night, unfortunately the assembly of the housing is quite different since it has the LCD on it. The R300 housing actually looks alot easier to take apart. If I could just figure out how to get the top part of the shell to come off I'd be on my way to tinkering with it.

[bb-q]

I just bought this
http://www.echostore.com/continuous-ink-supply-system-r200-r300.html

I almost got this one though
http://businessservicespro.com/epsonpage.html
anyone have any feedback on these

[bidefordboy]

hi bb-q,
The system you have is manufactured by the same company in china as the system's owned by 'macrovision' & myself.
Macrovision purchased his from 'printonadime' & mine was from 'Toppy-Jess'.
On the instruction cd that came with mine they have details of the three system's :-

MT series 100ml tanks
XM series 70ml tanks
TL series 40ml tanks

The cart's are the same, but can have different chip's.
No one has posted any comment's on the system with the 100ml tanks yet.

[bb-q]

heh so I am the guniea pig? great oh well. They answered all of my questions about the system. And even changed their site info and pic because of that. I am extremely pleased with the feedback from this company so I am looking forward to great things from this CIS

[bb-q]

I do have one question though. If for some reason your print heads get clogged using a CIS and cannot be cleaned with clean routines. How do u clean the nozzles, replaces the ink with solvent solution? Also where do u guys get your refills. Looking for 100ml refill bttles with high quality ink. Don't really want to spend more than $10 a bottle, need cheap shiping and can not be from Ebay.

[dun4cheap]

I just bought another CIS system which is identical to my other one. I also purchase refillable inks for it as well. I purchased them on ebay, but the company I purchased it from also has a web page that they sell from. It was matrixink.com. A full set of UV proof refills were $35 with syringes.

[macrovision]

BB-Q, DONOT USE SOLVENTS! Cleaning clogged nozzles is a little bit tricky but easy if you listen clearly....WARNING: There are two ribbon cables under the carraige....TOO Much of any corrosive chemical will destroy these cables! Corrosive chemicals are: Water,Alcohol,Bleach,Ammonia,Cleaning solution...ECT.! Follow these instructions carefully! To manually clean the nozzles use windex that has Ammonia D in it's formula...Carefully spray very little of it only on the cones...when you spray DONOT PULL THE TRIGGER ALL THE WAY simply pull enough to release as little chemical as possible... DONOT saturate the entire nozzle compartment as it will leak into the printer and possibly into the printhead retainer causing corrosion to the ribbon cables...The cones should have ONLY be damp...NOT soaked! And EACH ring at the round base SHOULD NOT HAVE ENOUGH CHEMICAL TO EXTEND TO THE NEXT RING.... Leave the chemical on the cones for only 3-5 minutes (YOU may want to use a syringe to apply the windex...Use only 2-3 small drops for each cone!) After 3-5 minutes insert the ink carts and use the ssc service utility to run a powerful cleaning(RUN ONLY ONE CLEANING CYCLE!) USE THE PRINTER TO DO A NOZZLE CHECK BEFORE EVERY PRINT JOB AND IF YOU ONLY PRINT ONCE IN A WHILE PRINT A NOZZLE CHECK EVERY OTHER DAY WHILE THE PRINTER IS IDLE(NOT BEING USED)ACRIMONY, As for being a tech....most of us know more than techs because they study for a purpose...we study for exploration...book knowledge is O.K. but hands on experience is the best teacher!! I remember the issue with the casing and your right...It's glued on but it may be double sided tape construction holding it...you need to examine the entire casing under good lighting....but I'll take a look at it later and post the results...I only took the chassis apart...rod and everything...took out the printhead(the problem) and reassembled it... I Didn't need to go any further...AND Dun4, I called Epson and Pigment ink will wash off DVD's with water just like the R200/R300 dye ink! That's what the Tech told me!

[bb-q]

I have to take the printer apart? lol I did that to the first one I bought, ruined it. What about the cleaner carts that are available online. Or what about just replacing the ink carts with epson OEM Ink which have chemecials in it to clean nozzles of course they would cost as much as a new printer but still.

[bidefordboy]

bb-q.

Never had a problem with blocked heads (yet), you may get some help from here :-

http://inksupply.info/index.php?_a=knowledgebase&_j=questiondetails&_i=9&nav2=Tips,%20...%20and%20Terms

macrovision.

Have your level's reset again yet, if so what happened ?
I was too late to catch my black, so it did a clean.
Thought I had caught the Lt.Magenta, it reset ok without cleaning, but when I printed my next cover it did a auto clean first. It's not so much of a worry now that I have the waste bottle fitted, but still a waste.

[macrovision]

Bidefordboy....I did another 15 full face color dvd's last night and still no reset.... I noticed the levels moved about 6% less even though I did about 60 full face color dvd's.... I don't know how I'm doing so many but use so little ink...my former OEM carts would have dried up by now but on a more disappointing note I learned through the MIS help site I posted that the Epsons have more than one type of auto-clean cycle and I've noticed in the past as well as last night that my printer did a short auto-clean cycle even though the levels didn't reset...according to what I read the printers firmware tells it to do an auto-clean cycle at different times...not only when a new cart is inserted...the short cycle didn't waste much ink but still I pulled the waste pad and cleaned it...."I can't stand my precious printhead in all that waste ink".

[Idle]

Well, it looks like I have to decide between the SinoPIS and Toppy-Jess (Shenzhen Microtec) if I want to replace the failed CIS.

Emailed both, got a reply from Mark at SinoPIS Australia, was ignored by Toppy-Jess.

SinoPIS unit with 660ml of US-made ink lists at $AU260, they offered me a 'special price' of $235 (plus unspecified delivery charge, probably around $AU10) -- this exactly equals the price I paid for the printer & OEM carts.

It does look like a quality unit, is stocked in Australia (albeit 2000 miles away...) and comes with warranty.

Toppy-Jess is $US64.99 buy-it-now + $US35 delivery = about $AU133.

Looks like this could be cut a few $ by bidding one in -- but no reply to email isn't a good sign IMHO.

Might be I asked questions they don't wish to answer (does it come with the 90% chips? why does it cost $US10 more to ship to Australia than the US when Hong Kong to Australia is shorter and cheaper? (I think they do ship from HK -- go through their Ebay comment listing and several people comment on quick delivery from HK to where-ever), do the cartridges have proper outlet seals with springs?)

What fun

[Acrimony]

I went ahead and ordered a new CIS. I took out my JLWSales kit yesterday and there was black ink all in the carriage, I had to sit the cartridge on a cloth because ink just kept leaking out. I assume the rubber gasket on the bottom has failed. Fortunately I happened to be taking them out, other wise I might have had it leak all over my printer. I E-Mailed JLWSales to see about a full or even partial refund, since I used about half of the ink but we'll see how that turns out.

I E-Mailed Robert from printonadime, and got a response within 2 hours. After trading a few E-Mails with him I decided to go ahead and order one from him. I'm getting one of their 100mL systems, judging from the pics he sent me it looks to be of better build quality than the one from JLWSales. Hopefully I'll get it before weeks end let you all know how it compares.

[Idle]

I went ahead and ordered a new CIS. I took out my JLWSales kit yesterday and there was black ink all in the carriage, I had to sit the cartridge on a cloth because ink just kept leaking out. I assume the rubber gasket on the bottom has failed.

Yes, I had a good look at the 'O' rings in the one I just pulled out -- they're awful.

Speaking as one who understands seals and fluid handling pretty well -- grew up on a dairy farm, did an apprenticeship screwing up nuts (motor mechanic), ran an industrial laundry for 25 years, have an engine-driver's steam ticket -- I wouldn't use them as spacers, let alone seals.

And I did have to clean black ink out of the printer mechanism after I removed it -- perhaps I'm lucky it failed when it did.

Explains why the black bottle seemed to be going down too fast...

Oh well, you live and learn.

Mind you, with only very minor changes to the cartridges the JLWSales/Wangchun kit could be one of the best on the market -- might cost about an extra dollar or less at the point of manufacture.

All it would entail is the difference between useless and half-way reasonable 'O' rings, a slight modification to the sealing valves, a couple of plastic strips inside the cartridges to minimise ink surge and about three inches more tubing.

I really like that modified Mariotte system in the supply bottles -- it should work very well for a long time.

The chip failure in the cyan cartridge could happen to anybody (but WHY ME--!? ), and it would be a simple matter to replace.

[pixiemom]

How about this site:
http://inkjetsusa.com/

Their description of their manufacturing methods is impressive, as is their ink guarantee (if the ink batch is bad, they replace ink **and** CIS system).

The CIS bottles look like the Toppy-Jess and printonadime bottles, but they're 125 ml.

here is their eBay auction:
http://tinyurl.com/73rpz

He only asks $14 shipping, and he's located in the USA.

Being very cautious here, but I really have to buy a system this week.

[Idle]

Looks interesting, might follow it up, depending on what he charges for overseas shipping.

Re his claims of quality, methinks he protesteth a little much -- no-one could put in all that work, do so much research, scrap so much material and still sell for what he does, let alone discount the product on Ebay.

Besides, his other blurb mentions wholesaling to, among other people, 'flea marketers' -- which could well mean he buys from the bottom of the barrel (in another life, I had considerable experience in this area.)

If you look at the Toppy-Jess listing for systems without ink, which sell around $50, they do look strangely similar to the one on his website.

He's obviously feeling his way on Ebay -- much of his feedback is from sellers.

[Acrimony]

Back on page 2 Macrovision posted pics of various cartridges, well he is indeed correct about JLWSales carts being hollow (not that I doubted him ). Out of bordness and curiosity I broke open one of JLWSales carts and scanned it for you all.



As you can see there is just one large open chamber. And the "valve" is simply a rubber gasket with a wire mesh screen to filter out anything in the ink. No wonder there was ink all in my carriage.

[macrovision]

I warned everyone about the JLWSALES CIS... I told everyone that not only am I a tech but It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the carts are built wrong! My printonadime kit seems to be quite confusing....I had reset problems and the manufacturer told me to always leave the printer on....so I did and I printed full color DVD"s as I've posted above and the levels dropped slow...So, I looked at the levels last night and noticed the yellow was at 26%...It'll reset at 10% and resets to 90% so I printed labels that were mostly yellow and I changed the output to the best photo mode(uses more ink) and I increased the color(yellow) all the way(wanted to use alot of ink so it'll reset) Well.....After printing 5+ pages I checked the levels only to have a reading of 30%....It was 26%...HUH? What happened? I don't know however the light cyan was at 94%.....it was lower before but I wasn't watching that level indicator so I'm not sure if it reset but I'm confused at why It's taking so long to reset however I'm very pleased with the Printonadime CIS kit because it hasn't let me down yet and the tanks are 30ml or so...the ink doesn't drain fast so I don't need bigger tanks and I print a hell of a lot! over 150 dvd's in the last 2 weeks or so....Help? I don't think so....I now what's good and I have enough experience and info!

[Idle]

Acrimony:

As you can see there is just one large open chamber. And the "valve" is simply a rubber gasket with a wire mesh screen to filter out anything in the ink. No wonder there was ink all in my carriage

Thanks for the pic -- it shows exactly what I expected to see.

The rubber gasket is indeed what passes for a valve, and most of the time it works -- if you attach a syringe to the outer shell and apply vacuum you'll find the valve closes and holds quite well.

To actually suck ink out of the cartridge you need to insert the end of the syringe far enough to lift the valve.

The problem is that when the cart is put in the printer the print-head tube pushes it open (as it must), distorts the -rubber?- flap and then it doesn't close properly when the cart is taken out again.

Which would be of no consequence if the 'O' ring was of good quality and didn't leak, (probably where the ink in your carriage assembly came from, although there can be other sources) and if the CIS never needed to be taken out again.

BTW, I had a reply from InkJetsUsa and he does use the 90% reset chips.

Macrovision:
I watched the ink levels reasonably carefully for the short time my system actually worked and noticed they did wierd things -- you couldn't really predict where they would be from one job to the next.

Not sure if it's to do with the monitoring program reading the chips or the way the print driver calculates ('estimates' is probably a better term) the droplet count, but it seems to work much more reliably with the OEM carts, so I'd guess the strange readings are from the chips.

BTW, I got in a set of ARC chips (ordered sight unseen) and they came on a bar that's intended to be installed in the printer and left there, so to use them with OEM carts you'd have to machine off the moulded sockets the original chips fit into.

I'll look further into that when my OEM's run out.