The Best CIS ?

[Idle]

If these are normal ink tanks, I can't see why the ink level would rise in the vent tubes.

Lets see:- You start with an empty tank sealed by two rubber plugs.

The tank has an upper mark and a lower mark which show the working range.

You remove the larger plug (leaving the smaller one in place) and fill the tank to the upper mark.

Leaving the filler plug out and the vent plug in, you prime the cartridge the tank is connected to (pull ink through it until there are no bubbles, putting the extracted ink back into the tank.)

The tank and cartridge are now full, minus the amount required to fill the cartridge — please yourself whether you top it up or not (given the flooding problem you've had, perhaps you shouldn't.)

You replace the rubber plug.

You repeat the procedure for the remaining tanks.

You now have a CIS that has all tanks full, less the amount that has been drawn into the cartridges, and is fully sealed.

You install the cartridges into the printer, making sure they snap fully into place, and set up the tubes to track correctly.

You site the tank assembly where it is to remain (I do recommend you place it in a leak-proof container), ensuring it is on the same level as the printer base.

Now, and only now, you can remove the smaller rubber plugs and replace them with the breather filters; Store the plugs away carefully, you'll need them again when refilling tanks.

Unless there's an air leak into the main tanks (warranty claim!), only a small amount of ink should have found its way into the breather tubes — maybe a quarter inch or so — and that's how they should remain.

At this point installation is complete and you can test the printer.

When refilling a tank, start by replacing the filter with the original plug before removing the filler plug, and after filling replace the filler plug before reinstalling the filter.

Does all this agree with the way you've handled your system?

If it does, and you've made no mistakes, the breather tubes should be almost empty and should remain so; If not, the CIS is faulty and should be thrown back at the supplier.

[NotSoEasy]

As far as I can remember, yes I did it just hat way.Been a while since I installed it but that does sound like the steps I took.Fact I watched the video that came on the mini disc for instructions and that was the way they did it.I made sure to watch a couple times because I didn't want to screw anything up.
If you remember, I did mention that a couple tanks had leaking.I think the mended seams were not so great so I could assume that was one issue with ink getting into the breather tubes.But not all had this seam problem so there has to be another way ink is being allowed to go up in there.
I just received an email from 'POAD' and they are waiting on a reply from the manufacture with my problem.I was also informed of another tank design they have so I may be receiving that if they cant figure out what my problem is.I just hope to get all this figured out soon before my print heads go bad from no printing!
Thanks again for your help

[Idle]

If you did the setup exactly that way and the breather tubes filled with ink then there must be a way for air to pass between the two chambers other than the valve at the bottom — maybe the welding at the top is also faulty.

If air could pass through beneath the tops of the tanks, there would be nothing you could do about it other than replace the tanks.

[NotSoEasy]

So I got a set of new tanks from 'POAD'
The same thing happened with ink flowing up the inner tube and into the surrounding tube and wanting to overflow through the air filter.
So 'POAD' sent me a different tank setup.I'd like to take the time and say that 'POAD' customer service is exceptional.I have never had customer service like this.They have sent out new tanks at no charge and want to resolve this issue.Constant replies to my emails.These guys don't leave you hangin.
I now have the new tanks and ready to install and fill with ink.The new set I got were the 100mL as seen in this post here
Anything special about filling or setup in general about these tanks?

[Idle]

They look like the ones where you fill the front chamber, replace the caps, lay the whole thing on its back until the ink drains into the back chamber, stand upright again and replace the caps with the breathers.

Simple enough and should work fine — provided the plastic welds are up to scratch.

[NotSoEasy]

There isn't a front and back chamber.It's just one chamber.
It looks like I just fill it and replace the rubber caps.
What I don't understand though is the process of priming.Do I fill with ink, close with rubber stopper, then prime carts or fill with ink, prime, then cover with rubber stops.
These tanks are sorta plain.

[Idle]

If these are the tanks I think they are, (the ones you indicated in your last post) you'll find they are two-part tanks (Mariotte bottles) with a connecting port at or near the bottom.

Their shape indicates they are in fact such bottles — if they were plain containers the CIS tube would be attached at the top to another tube going almost to the bottom and there would be no need for the raised air chamber behind the fillers.

To find out for sure, run this message past POAD.

The major differences I see between them and the ones you've been using is that the relief (air) tube is bigger, so there's little or no risk of any blowback causing an ink overflow, plus they have only the one top opening.

You fill with ink, then prime the carts, then put in the vented plugs — if you replace the rubber sealing stoppers there won't be any air getting in, so you won't be able to pull ink into the carts, and even if you did somehow manage to do it, printing would start fine but cease as soon as the printheads built up enough vacuum in the system to stop ink flow.

You would only replace the rubber stoppers if there were an alternative venting system in the bottles, which I doubt (do check to be sure, though.)

No matter where it's fed from, the ink used must be replaced with an equal volume of air — you positively cannot extract fluid from a sealed container.

Sometimes if the bottles are not adequately vented there will be enough vacuum created during printing to actually pull ink back out of the carts when the print heads are parked — this will cause printing to suddenly cease.

Incidentally, the trouble you had with the other bottles suggests there's air getting compressed in the system somewhere and blowing back into the supply tubing with enough force to cause ink to bubble up the relief tube.

I can't imagine how it would, but aside from some part of the system being physically compressed and pumping ink back (unlikely) it's the only explanation I can think of.

[NotSoEasy]

The tanks I have now use the rubber stop as the vents.I took a look at them and they have arrows on them that need to point at the arrows on the tanks.There are small openings on the rubber stop that allow air in that match with a small section opening in the plastic cap they cover.Hard to explain but I see how air gets in.So what I think I need to do is fill with ink, prime then put rubber stops back on and make sure air gets in.Looking at this design, there really is no way I can get leaks as there is nothing that reaches to the top that ink can flow to.
I still cant see the 2 part design in the tanks but that maybe because I just cant see well enough inside them.

[Idle]

The tanks I have now use the rubber stop as the vents.I took a look at them and they have arrows on them that need to point at the arrows on the tanks.

That saves the maker supplying an extra set of plastic bits, but I expect they don't filter the air going in (not that it's likely to make a lot of difference in the long run.)

I still think they'll probably fill in the way I said — pour the ink into the front tank, replace the stopper, lay the tank over backwards and watch the ink run through the port and the air come out.

When you stand the tank up again the rear tank will be full apart from an air buffer in the top (required for proper operation) and the ink level in the front tank will be just a little higher than the transfer port and will remain so as the level in the rear tank goes down.

This is how they maintain an even pressure at the supply outlet as the ink level goes down - the column of ink remains suspended under the airtight top, which actually carries the weight instead of its applying pressure in the ink lines that lessens as the level goes down.

To check if they are two-part tanks if you can't see, put a feeler of some kind through the fill hole and see if there's a wall — I'll be surprised if there's not.

That's how all the Chinese systems (and most of the others) work — and POAD's is a Chinese system.

[Richkut]

Here's a new type of CIS

I purchased this CIS from http://www.inkjetfly.com a few weeks ago and couldn't be happier. It appears to be the easiest, simplest CIS out there, the price is more than reasonable ($49.95), and there are no rubber stoppers or refilling to worry about. When the ink runs low, you just replace the complete external inkwell with a new one. At first I was not getting any ink to come out of the printer head at all, but after extracting a bit of ink from each opening in the printer head, itself (with the enclosed syringe, per instructions) the systems works great!!

Rich

[NotSoEasy]

Richkut,
ALWAYS PRIME before using.What you did was a dry run and that can really screw up your print heads.You explained you did that after not getting ink but man don't ever do that again unless you want to buy a new printer!

Idle,
They are definitely single chamber design.I just added ink to one and the entire thing filled up and I saw no indication of duel chamber.
As for the air intake.It all relies on those rubber caps I have.They have a notch on them that matches with a notch taken out of the plastic I put the caps on that when turned a certain way ( match up arrows I said earlier ) it allows air flow.
I'm going to put it all together today and see what happens.Wish I could take pictures to show this design but have no batteries for camera.....

[Richkut]

To my knowledge there was nothing in the instructions about g, per se. Once the CIS was installed, the instructions just stated that the cleaning cycle must be run a number of times (to a max of 7, if memory serves me correct). While the instructions did not specifically state how to perform the suctioning of the ink from the bottom of the printheads, it did allude to it and I just had to figure this out by myself via intelligent guessing. While the feed tubes looked like they were full, evidently this did not reach well into the printhead mechanism. As soon as I performed this operation everything was back to normal and my R200 was printing as if it had OEM cartridges in it. So for me this appears to be the CIS of logical choice when all was said and done

Rich

[NotSoEasy]

A lot of CIS wont say to prime and just run cleanings to get the ink flowing.Why they would say this is beyond me as it just runs dry.
Priming should always be done and sometimes needs to be done when it seems no ink is flowing.
You are ok though since you did the priming instead of running your printer to death on cleaning cycles.

I was about 2min from getting my setup and I tore a damn nipple insert that goes on the feed tube to the carts.Now I have to wait until they send me a new one.The tube wont go in the cart without it.Pisses me off since I was so close to getting done now have to wait 3-4 days.
What a messy job it was to remove all tubes from old carts to new ones.Damn ink was everywhere!No big deal when everything is new with no ink, but add ink to the ordeal and you are in for fun!

[NotSoEasy]

I tell you, this CIS business is getting to me now.Just when I thought things were going good with them all hell breaks loose.
I was able to find a rubber piece to replace the one I tore.So I was ready to go.I primed the carts real good and put it all back together....now I can print black, magenta, some light magenta, no yellow at all, some cyan and little light cyan.
I took the carts back out, re-primed them and replaced..still the same results.Did some head cleanings and nozzle checks and still the same.
I put back my OEM carts from Epson and I have no problems.I'm about to ditch this CIS business and go with refillable carts!
I'm on my 3rd reservoir set and although 'POAD' are excellent at customer service, I really have mixed feelings about their systems.At first everything was good then the leaks came in and here I am.
Five hours of work today on this thing and I'm beat!

[NotSoEasy]

Anyone ever do a head cleaning on an R300 ?
I think maybe a few heads are clogged.I think no matter what, other than Epson inks they will clog with others that say they are compatible.
Just wondering if anyone has done it and could give me pointers on how and what to use.Maybe pictures?

[Idle]

If it's only a few nozzles, usually a few drops of an ammonia-based window cleaner (blue Windex or equivalent) on the parking pads, park heads and leave for a while — up to overnight — then a head clean and nozzle check.

If it's a serious clog (head not printing at all), more often than not it's caused by air bubbles rather than anything solid.

Re your ink bottles, if they're what you describe you'd get the same result by just dropping the ends of the tubes into any container of similar size, priming the carts and then letting the print heads draw the ink up.

Unlike the constant-pressure Mariotte system, the amount of vacuum required to pull ink through will increase as the level drops.

Be very careful not to raise the bottles far off the table for more than a moment or so — you'll be applying all the weight of the fluid column to the heads and they can leak.

Ink is conductive, if it leaks into the electronics it will cause a short and probably wreck the printer.

[NotSoEasy]

I have a couple barely printing and Yellow wont print at all.
Where are the parking pads located?
I don't know much of the inside of a printer.I was going to go with this diagram here with a little Windex in it as seen here http://www.powerklin.co.uk/ ( illustration 3 )

As for air not allowing printing.Like I said, I primed the hell out of all carts to make sure there was nothing but ink from Tanks to carts.I did head cleanings and nozzle checks like crazy....maybe the cart(s) are allowing air in and no ink flow?

[Idle]

The parking pads are what the heads sit upon when the printer is idle (like me...) or turned off.

To have a look at them you can move the carriage out of the way without turning the printer on.

Look at the left rear of the carriage, between the drive belt and the guide rail, and you'll see a small white plastic clip.

Lift this with anything suitable and you can move the carriage by hand.

The parking pad is rectangular and has what looks like a pair of X's on it.

You'll see it has a rubber seal round it.

This locks to the head assembly so that the waste pump can pull ink through during clean/prime cycles, so be careful not to damage it.

Air leaks:

It's quite possible for air to leak into the print heads if the cartridge seal isn't right (there's an "O" ring inside the cart outlet that's supposed to seal the cart to the ink spigot) or the cart isn't pushed fully home.

Air being lighter than liquid it will enter in preference to ink where it can, and if the piezo pump in the head contains air (which is compressible, ink isn't) it will vibrate uselessly — like any pump it must have a solid column of fluid to operate properly.

All the cart priming in the world won't get air out of the pump, something has to remove it.

Often gravity will fix it, try leaving it overnight, then do a head clean & nozzle check.

If that fails you might need to push ink through the offending head with a syringe (push gently — you can break the ceramic head very easily, and the spigot isn't strong either.)

Break either one and you can bin the printer.

[NotSoEasy]

Sounds scary!
I got an email from 'POAD' that my print heads may be clogged and a Q-tip with alcohol on them is what may be needed.Only I don't know how to access the print heads to rub with alcohol ( or Windex which ever is best )
I tried looking online for a schematic of my printer so I can see all these things but no such luck.

[Idle]

Try Windex on the parking pads before you do anything else — you might be lucky.

[NotSoEasy]

So if I remove the park pad, how do I go about cleaning it?
Should I just spray (drench) with Windex until as clean as possible?
Do I leave it soaked or semi soaked with Windex and let sit for a day?

[Idle]

You do not remove the park pad, you do not drench it with Windex — both bad things to do.

Manually move the carriage away from the park position by releasing the catch as I told you earlier, put a few drops of Windex on the park pad (I generally do it with a syringe — an eyedropper might be easier if you have one), turn the printer on and off again to properly park the heads again and let Nature take its course.

If you are lucky (and I hope you are), after a few hours you'll be able to run a head clean followed by a nozzle check and see at least some improvement.

Often this is all you need do to restore print quality. sometimes you may have to repeat the treatment and let it stand overnight.

There is absolutely no need to remove the parking pad nor (unless you've managed to accumulate detritus other than ink or cleaning liquid on it) to clean it.

Removing the pad is risky in that it's easily damaged and if you cause the pad-to-printhead seal to leak air you'll either lower or destroy the efficiency of the waste ink pump, making the head clean process not work.

BTW, have you checked your PM's?

[NotSoEasy]

Thanks Idle.That makes much more sense.I will try this and see what results I get.
I have not received any PMs ? You send me one?

[Idle]

Yes, I sent you one a couple of daya ago — wondered why you hadn't replied.

Just re-sent it.

[NotSoEasy]

Can I ask one last question before I do this....
About how much am I applying to the park pad? I don't want to over do it and not do enough that it doesn't help.

[Idle]

5 or 6 drops on each pad is usually enough.

[NotSoEasy]

Well I have done what I can.I have left it up to 'POAD' now.
I just hope I haven't ruined my print heads by all this stand by time.
I think I am close to done with CIS systems.It's just not for me I guess.They work for a little while then crap out on me one way or another.
I guess I'll have to end up paying $60 for a set of Epson carts when need be.
I'm just wondering why I don't see these problems from others.It seems many use these systems flawlessly for years.

[Idle]

If it works OK when you put the Epson carts back in, then you haven't done any harm.

Further, if it works with the Epson carts and not with the CIS, then you know what's to blame...

I'm on the third CIS in my R310 — first one was a disaster, second one ran for a couple of years (had to replace the chips to get it working, tho' — printer flatly refused to recognise the originals and once again the supplier didn't care, luckily I had a set from another system that I was planning to experiment with) then developed a tank leak, No. 3 worked perfectly from the jump, but is still fairly new so only time will tell.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if your POAD set turns out to have air getting in somewhere — it's the most common fault with these things, and it always creates problems, usually after the thing has worked OK for a while.

Incidentally, you're fortunate to get Epson carts for $60,

Here they are $115 to $125 a set (our $ is about 88 cents US, so $115 would be around $101 US.)

This means Epson is flogging ink here for about $2000 a litre (imagine running a car on it...)

[NotSoEasy]

I just got an email back and they want to see my setup so I sent a couple pictures to amuse them though I know that wont do any good.I just hope that I don't ruin these print heads with all this waiting around.I put in my OEM carts and cant see for sure how it will go since apparently my black is out and we all know once one color goes it wont print at all.So I may just pick up a black to test out if everything is OK.I can then determine if it is indeed the CIS somewhere.
Cheapest I can get a set of 6 OEM carts is $45.00 + $10.00 s/h = $55.00 off eBay
Store bought I pay average of $65 - $85 depending on the store.
I think it all pretty high priced seeing as how much ink is in the things and how Epson cheats on how much ink is used and when it doesn't allowing any more ink to flow saying it is empty.But as we all know, they are in the business to sell INK not printers.
Imagine if they sold or made printers with a type of CIS in them.Though we can probably all assume they would cost triple what they cost now for the printer and ink replacement would be horrendous!

[Idle]

Imagine if they sold or made printers with a type of CIS in them.Though we can probably all assume they would cost triple what they cost now for the printer and ink replacement would be horrendous!

Actually, they do, and have done for many years.

It's only the lower end and mid-range printers that have the tiny carts we see.

A couple of months ago I had an 8-year-old 3000 model in to have the firmware reset and a drain tank fitted.

It has fixed carts and a flexible tube feed to the heads, can accept carts up to 200ml per colour.

Epson wanted $A300 to replace the waste pads and reset the counter — took me about half an hour to fit an external waste line (actually, two waste lines on this model), 20 seconds to reset the counter, total cost to the customer $A50.

For an R300 I could have done it in about ten minutes, this one took longer because the top of the printer has to be dismantled and holes drilled in the case for the drain tubes.

Epson's really expensive ($5000 and upwards) professional printers have both CIS and waste ink tanks as standard.