The Best CIS ?

[skyper]

Here's a new type of CIS SPAM

[thespook]

Looks good, Where from

[gumby]

click on the picture of a page near the bottom of the post.

[poolenglish]

hello everyone; long time no see! I see that I have converted many to the refillables smart carts. Thank god I got rid of the flopping hoses and still going strong now....problem free.

http://www.printforless.tk/

[Chester1971]

I'm going to give them a try Poolenglish...

My CIS has performed very well but yesterday while opening the printer lid, I snagged the hose line and pulled the black hose out of the top (snapped would be a better word) of the cartridge. Through a combination of lightning reflexes, cat-like dexterity and blind luck I managed to grab the hose and pinch it before any more than a couple of drops came out.

It's probably repairable but the flappy hoses are beginning to irritate so I'm giving the refillables a go. I'll post any results/observations if an when there's anything of note.

To be honest, I'm not looking forward to refilling them, I gather it's not quite as as simple as inserting a syringe and pressing!...or is it?

Chester

[guillame]

I just purchased and installed the print on a dime cis for the Epson 2200.
I believe I am the 1st to use it on a Epson 2200 as their manuals reflected only the Epson 2400 and the 300.

The hard part was mounting the the tube routers since the top of my 2200 is not flat but has a some of its surfsce recessed which made it more difficult to stick on the router.

I used pigment ink and the quality is outstanding and Emry of print ona dime is very responsive and stright forward.

bill

The installation pics...

This is the kink in the tubes that caused all the twisting and snagging problems.





I fixed the problem by attaching a simple splint under the tubes so when the carriage goes far left the tubes cant fall down into the printer cavity.





Not very elegant but hey...it works

I'll post more if there are any problems with the system or the auto reset chips...looks good so far though.

[Chester1971]

Nice to see this thread is still alive...and evolving

The refillable cartridges I bought are a doddle to refill and I have to say, poolenglish is right, I think they are the way to go...certainly for me.

...and the lack of flapping cables is bliss

[GLOpro]

Are there any comments on this system? C.I.S Inksupply

The listing looks very informative and the kit looks pretty good, but without ever having used any CIS kit before i dont know what are the things to look out for.

This one looks like it addresses alot of CIS problems.

ie:
shorter cartridges reducing line bending
spongless cartridge
silicon dampers for canon cartridges(???)
ink tube at fron of cartridge
silicon tubes
internal air system (no more air valves)
ink control knob.

As i said, it looks good to me but im keen for some opinions from experienced CIS users.

The other one i am looking at is from Sinopis which make one for the MP780 as per their photograph.

So i would greatly appreciate any help in deciding which may be better.

Thanks

[Nagodesi]

Has anyone purchase from these vendors or tried these systems? I'm a heavy printer at least 4 to 5 disc's a day.. what do you recommend?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Bulk-Ink-System-CIS-For-Epson-R300-R320-RX500-Rx620_W0QQitemZ30006...QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=007&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewi...2335&rd=1&rd=1

I used to use prints-on-dime before, but that cis died on me in 4 months.. and clogged my printer.. especially the light blue color..

[Denvers Dawgs]

I've been told when I'm doen with my JWL kit to use these http://www.printforless.tk/

[Nagodesi]

The first one on my link look about the same.. how are you satisfied with your ink refillable tank?

[classfour]

When the CIS that I bought from printonadime craps out, I'm going to exchange it for the refillable carts. It's been going for over 1 1/2 years so far, seeing daily use for photos and DVDs. I've probably printed over 1,000 discs and a few hundred photos with it. I also have had to mod the printer (added external ink reservoir) when it went into error mode over the waste pad - worked! I'm using the refillables in the R200 printers without issues. As to printonadime: I must've gotten either a better system, or better chips - the ones that were shipped with the CIS were crap, the replacements have been fine. I still dont like the tubing flopping about, but can't complain.

[Bodyslide]

I will do the Same as Denver Dawgs. Once my JWL kit starts to fail, I will but the Carts from http://www.printforless.tk/

[Nagodesi]

This refillable cartrige looks the same as printsonadime but lesser cost... this one on ebay is $44+8.99 shipping



<-- For photo printing..

This one below looks good for bulk printing, I saw the some on online for over $139.00, but on ebay for $69.99+shipping.. the tanks are 165 ml each.. but the yellow and black ink tanks look much bigger..

I had a printsonadime.. i also got over or close to 1000 cdr-dvd printed.. but the units was very flimsy..



I found this Mammoth size printer for the crazy nut or a home business guru: it's $109.99 on ebay + I think it's $20 plus shipping.. Look at the 500 ml size tanks in a case..

[zoinbergs]

WHEW! Just read all 30 pages in one sitting! My how this topic has evolved!

I decided I'd try and sum up all the useful information I attained through reading this thread..

(Keep in mind that I assume no responsibility for making these claims.. nor do I endorse them.. I'm just repeating the general concensous and overall feeling I got from reading these hundreds of posts! This is just my OPINION, and in no way should you rely on my opinion alone. Instead, if you must, sit down and read some of this stuff yourself! For it goes into MUCH greater detail than what I present here today)

If something needs to be obviously changed, please let me know. If something needs to be added, please go ahead and add it!

Sorry if it's a little out of order...

• The OLD JLWSales Kits are unreliable after 3-5 months
• The NEW JLWSales Kits might be a little better, though
  
• InkRepublic CIS kits seem to be more reliable
  
• Sponged cartridges are frowned upon (as they can deteriorate and clog print heads)
• Compartmentalized (mazed) cartridges are smiled upon (as they help prevent ink foaming)
  
• CIS systems are good for large print loads, but require constant MAINTAINING
• Refillable cartridges are good for medium print loads, but require constant FILLING
• OEM cartridges are good for small print loads, but require constant REPLACING
• Original Epson Cartridges are good for extremely small print loads, but require constant $$$$$$
  
• As far as I know, nobody sells (well, has confirmed in this forum to sell) auto-resetting chips that actually reset to 90% or 95% as opposed to 100%.
  
• The waste ink bottle modification (out the back of the printer) is a smart way to go! This helps keep the inside of the printer clean.
  
• The waste ink pad modification (removing the black vacuum tube underneath it) is a not-so-smart way to go. Read next notes to understand why.
  
• The green-lined (instead of the black) vacuum tube modifaction (removing it to prevent uneccessary ink purges during chip resets) is a smarter way to go, although it must be noted that *some* ink on the waste pad (put there by initial ink purges) is a GOOD thing, as it seals and moisturizes the print heads when they're not in use. This helps prevent clogs.
  
• Every once in awhile it is good idea to remove the waste ink pad and wash it thoroughly in water, then dry it and put it back. Although one must not do this too many times, as it will warp the pad and prevent a good seal with the print heads (when there's a little bit of ink on it).. thus resulting in a clog.
  
• If a clog does occur, placing Windex (w/ ammonia) on the waste ink pad and letting the print heads sit in it over night, should do the trick in removing it. Although a few purge/cleansing sheets of ink should be printed aftwards to remove the excess residue.
  
• Stratitec Ink (available from Sam's Club Online) is a low quality -- low cost solution. "You get what you pay for." It's prints have been said to appear lighter than OEM ink, and some reports have been made that it can cause clogs (because it's universal ink as opposed to ink designed for certain printers).
  
• Mixing inks can cause problems, due to the different viscocity (thickness) between them.
  
• CIS systems should be left alone once properly installed, as fidling with them can introduce problems. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
  
• Blunt needles should be used when filling refillable cartridges. Sharp needles can do a lot of damage (puncture, scrape, etc.)
  
• A good place to purchase refillable inkjet cartridges is www.printforless.tk -- as they have received much praise.
  
• Another good place to purchase refillable inkjet cartridges is www.printonadime.com
  
• If your CIS kit comes in the mail tightly packaged, and the ink ribbon is wound tightly around the cartridges (causing a block in the system).. running the ribbon kink under warm water may open up the passages. Also, over time the kink should work itself away.
  
• It is not a good idea to place your CIS tanks above the printer, as gravity will pull the ink inside them down into the print heads, causing leaks everywhere!
  
• If your CIS ribbons contain small air pockets, you may not have to worry about it (so long as your prints come out fine). BUT, if these pockets start to cause problems with your prints, you may need to reprime your setup.
  
• Correct ribbon routing and clip placement can do wonders for your CIS, preventing interference with the print heads when printing. (Don't let that ribbon get caught under the cartridge assembly when it's moving back and forth!)
  
• If your printer starts acting up, you may just find that giving it a little rest (letting the foam dispurse) goes a long way. Remember, these desktop printers are NOT meant for commercial reproduction. They were intended and manufactured for home use (light to medium print loads). So give your printer a break every once in awhile!
  
• Do not reset auto-resetting chips in a chip resetter module, as it will most likely burn the chips out!
  
• Do not mix and match different chips with different colors (I believe each chip is color specific).
  
• When handling chips, make sure you have NO static inside of you (from wool, carpet, etc).. and be sure to wear plastic/latex gloves for extra security.
  
• Dye ink usually doesn't settle... pigment ink can if it sits long enough.
  
• Sticky, press-on labels are unreliable when used with DVD media, as they can shrink/peel/warp over time.
  
• Epson has some sort of patent in place, preventing Canon from selling CD/DVD printers in the United States. Canon does however sells CD/DVD capable printers overseas, and the ones sold in the United States can be easliy modified to support the feature. Trays for them can be either homemade or purchased (although I don't know where).

Now I mostly made this list for my own sheer benefit.. but if it helps but one other person out there, I figured it's worth posting!

Again, let me know if anything OBVIOUS needs to be changed. Like, if I totally got something wrong. If it's argumentative instead though, than let's talk about it!

Have a good one guys... I'm off to go (finally) buy a refillable inkjet cartridge system!

[Denvers Dawgs]

Very nice summary zoinbergs.

I had both the older JWL CIS kit and the newer kit. The only reason I had to get the newer kit was that I accidently mixed pigment and dye ink. I know, dumb! I never had a problem with the older version and used it for over 2 years. I had the new kit for about 6-7 months and it started to give me problems, so i went the refillable carts way.

A little over a week ago I bought refillable carts from printforless, and the Light Magenta and Yellow carts both leak wasting all the ink I filled them with. E-mailed Printforless 3 times, no response yet. Because of this I won't be doing business with them ever again, and will most like be using the printonadime carts for the r200. Just trying to let others know that customer service there seems non-existant. I'll post in the future if I ever hear from them.

[zoinbergs]

Thank you DD.. it is worthy to note that some *lucky* ones never had problems with their JLW Kits! I'm glad your's lasted so long. (What was your secret?)

Also nice of you to note that

• Dye ink and pigment ink DO NOT MIX

And I totally agree about the need for customer service these days.. it can make or break a company. I actually went with PrintonaDime this morning too, because the guy I spoke with (Rob) was very helpful and considerate. I have a feeling I'll be going back for more ink if it's of worthy quality!

I also got the free upgrade to 8oz bottles simply by purchasing one of his kits on eBay (as opposed to using their website). You others out there might enjoy this store front selection (and 100% positive feedback!):

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQsassZprintQ2donQ2daQ2ddime

[gumby]

Excellent recap zoinbergs, thanks.

For your information:
"(As far as I know, nobody sells (well, has confirmed in this forum to sell) auto-resetting chips that actually reset to 90% or 95% as opposed to 100%. )"

printonadime can fill your needs in this regard. Check their website. Good price. As you point out the service is second to none!

After a year of using their chips I ran into self caused difficulty. While attempting to reorder them, Emery offered up a method to reset the PC. That got it working again as before. You can't beat that for service.
Great site to deal with!
Gumby

[kydar]

Kudos on the recap, zoinbergs. I had a few questions, if you or anyone else knows.

1. What's the difference between dye and pigment-based inks? It seems like pigments are considered "better" and cost more. But chemically, what really is the difference? And are pigments worth the extra $$? Do they resist fading longer?

Denvers Dawgs said he used both. (unfortunately for him, at the same time - DOH!) I wonder if he noticed any significant differences in the outputs?

2. My Epson R300 has the waste-bottle mod, and I've noticed that even though it stays powered on 24/7, if I don't print anything for a few days, the next time I use it, it goes thru a clean cycle ore whatever you want to call it, and waste ink spurts into the bottle before the print job starts. Is there any way to reduce the number of cleaning cycles the printer performs? I'm sure that Epson designed them that way on purpose to waste as much ink as possible in the hope that you'll buy more of their ungodly-expensive cartridges. But even with refillables or a CIS, I hate to see all that ink getting wasted.

3.I think I know the answer to this one already, but I'll ask anyway for confirmation...what is the advantage of chips that reset to 90-95% instead of 100%? I believe it's because if they reset to 100%, the printer thinks you just installed a brand-new cartridge and goes thru a priming/cleaning/whatever cycle and wastes more ink! So resetting to 90% would prevent at least one of those waste cycles. Am I right?

OT: just scored a 100 pack of printable TDK DVD+R's....time to try out the DVD printing capabilities. :)

[gumby]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kudos on the recap, zoinbergs. I had a few questions, if you or anyone else knows.

1. What's the difference between dye and pigment-based inks? It seems like pigments are considered "better" and cost more. But chemically, what really is the difference? And are pigments worth the extra $$? Do they resist fading longer?

: The principle printer affecting differences, in the ink base is the particle size.
This can create nozzle problems if the ink is not matched to your printer. If the printer is designed for dye base, use it.(finer particles)

The end result is another matter. The pigment ink is less easily "washed off"
by handling, including moisture issues, than the dye based inks. The longevity of the photos is well debated in various forums. I seem to remember it is claimed the fading problem is indeed less with the pigment ink. However, you would need to read enough about it to form your own opinion as to what's best for you.

(10 years down the road the $$$$ won't be recalled).


Denvers Dawgs said he used both. (unfortunately for him, at the same time - DOH!) I wonder if he noticed any significant differences in the outputs?

2. My Epson R300 has the waste-bottle mod, and I've noticed that even though it stays powered on 24/7, if I don't print anything for a few days, the next time I use it, it goes thru a clean cycle ore whatever you want to call it, and waste ink spurts into the bottle before the print job starts. Is there any way to reduce the number of cleaning cycles the printer performs? I'm sure that Epson designed them that way on purpose to waste as much ink as possible in the hope that you'll buy more of their ungodly-expensive cartridges. But even with refillables or a CIS, I hate to see all that ink getting wasted.

: I think everyone is distressed from seeing this happen(other than the ink merchants).
My personal printing load is too light to take full advantage of the CISS. This "re-inking" I am going to search out a utility I came across which will prompt you to use the printer often enough to get around the waste.

The logical explanation for this happening is explained by describing how, if the nozzles are not kept in use, they will dry over, clog up and fail to perform correctly. Liken this to the paint brush you left in an open paint can too long. Remember how it sets up and until it is used more the brush will not paint properly. Or the paint spray bomb, how the nozzle builds up a deposit at the jet.
If that is not cleaned off the spray pattern becomes distorted.

Surprisingly, the regular printing will use less ink than what is purged for cleaning.



3.I think I know the answer to this one already, but I'll ask anyway for confirmation...what is the advantage of chips that reset to 90-95% instead of 100%? I believe it's because if they reset to 100%, the printer thinks you just installed a brand-new cartridge and goes thru a priming/cleaning/whatever cycle and wastes more ink! So resetting to 90% would prevent at least one of those waste cycles. Am I right?

:That is correct. The onus is on the user to monitor the ink reservoir levels. One must be careful in any case to be sure not to run empty ink supplies. If no ink is present in the system(even one color) there is a high chance the nozzles will be damaged from the heat generated in normal operation. The ink is depended upon to dissipate this heat.



OT: just scored a 100 pack of printable TDK DVD+R's....time to try out the DVD printing capabilities.

You will be blown away by how great the disks look when you see the first one.
(I practiced on some coasters)

These are my opinions as I learned and believe only.

Gumby

[Duelman]

Hello newbie here pls help. What? I need an n00b initiation first?

Anyways, I have a continuous Ink System bought from Think4Ink back in late 2004. It was working fine till early this year it no longer prints accurate colors. It's mostly greenish. Ive tried everything, color sets, cleaning the printheads, even bought a new printer. Is this the normal lifespan of CIS? If so then what is the best CIS for an Epson R340 for mass printing & quality? I work for a wedding photographer and we make large amounts of contact sheets. Any recommendations I will seriously consider since I trust you guys becos I see ya'll debating furiously. 8)

[poolenglish]

JUST AN UPDATE:

hello again ALL , just back for a look-see. I have been using the refillable carts for probably 2 years (it's been a year since i've been here)and all is still good with refillable carts from printforless ! no problems, zip,nada, none! I actually bought a backup printer (r200)and backup refillables and they have just sat new in the box, for 2 years now! I found a r200 at the flea market for $5 and have been using it for about a year,with my original refillable carts!
Best of luck everyone.

www.printforless.tk

is the link

[NotSoEasy]

Thought I would chime in here with a little review for my PrintOnADime purchase.

I bought the CIS for my R300 off eBay and really got a good deal and no hassles.
I had emailed them prior to installing just to make sure i was doing things right.As many as 3 emails to them before installing and got replies fairly quick.

The CIS has been working fine and no problems anywhere up to a couple weeks ago.
It prints fine and really get excellent prints.The problem I have run into are the tanks overflowing with ink which if not seen could be a big mess.

The tanks have an inner tube that goes up to an outlet which you insert a small air filter.
Well these tubes have been filling with ink and started spilling ink out of the filters.Sometimes without even printing.I had even cleaned this mess once and had not printed and today I checked and just caught a big mess about to happen if not noticed.I could have had CYAN and MAGENTA all over by mid-day.

I have been in contact with the guys over at PrintOnADime and emails have been answered quickly and not once has any type of blame been put on my installing the unit wrong.They are sending out a new tanks and seeing if maybe I had a bad one.

PrintOnADime CIS seems to be good other than this issue I am having.I'm hoping it is just a set of bad tanks and once I replace them all will be good.
I bought the unit in Jan and filled it all up with ink and now down to half.So that might tell you how much has been printed.Doesn't seem like a long time or much to start having issues like this but it could just be a bad set of tanks.

For what I have personally gone through with this CIS and PrintOnADime, I would give it all a total of 8/10
Take away the issue I have now and I have been completely satisfied.

[Idle]

If you think about it, the only possible cause for this would be a build-up of pressure in the tanks.

Air leaking in via the fillers or a crack would only cause the ink level to equalise in the tubes and the tanks, not rise high enough in the tubes to be forced out the breather vents — which looks like what's been happening.

Are your tanks in a position where they could become warmer than the rest of the system — warm enough to expand the air inside?

If this happened, what you're seeing would be understandable.

Incidentally, I keep my tanks in a watertight container (old ice-cream tub, actually) just in case, and it's served me well — I recently had the plastic weld fail in a tank and the contents start to seep out, would have made a right old mess...

[NotSoEasy]

Thanks for the reply.
I think I am seeing a design flaw in a few places.
Today I removed the tanks to install new ones I was sent by 'POAD'
When I removed the old tanks, I did notice a few things.One tank ( CYAN ) was leaking from the seams on front and back.I'm sure this is just one of those times that manufacturing was a little off.I am glad I caught it though before a huge mess.I only realized this because grabbing the tank left my hands very blue ( good thing I had rubber gloves! )
While I started filling up my tanks, I started with YELLOW.I did not fill it all the way full.I filled to the instructed line shown in the instructions.I then proceeded to put the rubber stop in and when I did this I saw ink rising up into the 'inner' tube and almost over flow into the 'surrounding' tube.This was my problem and why I relieved new tanks.
I had not yet inserted the air filter but it would not have mattered because it would have flowed through it anyway as it has been.
I'm seeing no reason to have this tube section in the tank.I think not having it and just add a small hole in the rubber stop would be enough for avoiding a pressure issue.
I also have seen other CIS tanks that have NO means of air vents.It is as if they are completely sealed at all times.I'm wondering if having air flow effects printing.Perhaps this air flow causes vacuum issues and creates clogs?
I'm wondering if I should make a complete seal on the tanks because the other day my YELLOW would not print out at all.Two days before it was fine then two days later no Yellow ink flows.Did head cleaning a few times and nozzle checks affirmed no Yellow ink flow.
I'm waiting for an email back on this latest from 'POAD'
Maybe I should ditch the 'POAD' tanks and use baby bottles!

[Idle]

Do not, for any reason, completely seal your supply bottles — even if you can't see it in some systems there must be a way for air to get in and replace the ink as it's drawn out.

If you seal them the ink flow will totally stop — you might even get backflow from carts to tanks if enough vacuum builds up.

The majority of CIS systems use a variant of the "Mariotte bottle" to ensure even pressure in the supply chain (with simple bottles the pressure will reduce as the level drops, thus needing more suction to lift the fluid column, with a Mariotte bottle it remains virtually constant until the level reaches the air transfer valve at the bottom of the breather tube.)

As with all such ideas, not all these things are created equal — properly done it's fine, made "on-the-cheap" it can pose problems.

For more on the Mariotte principle, a web search will turn up more and better information than I can give you here.

Re the yellow ink failure, if you haven't already done so I'd try re-priming the cartridge — most often it's caused by air in the cartridge itself, which usually you can't see.

The printer uses up the ink already in the space between the print head and the air, then ink flow stops.

Pull ink through until you're sure there's no more air — if you use a clean syringe you can put the ink pulled through back into the relevant tank.

Just a couple of weeks ago I replaced my CIS with one that had been on the shelf for about six or eight months — it looked fine apart from a few bubbles but the carts felt a bit light, so I reprimed all carts and was surprised by the amount of air they contained.

The system then printed perfectly without even a head clean (if the printer is turned off at the wall before the carts are changed it doesn't know anything has happened, so doesn't do a 'new cartridge' priming cycle) and has continued to do so — the bottles have now gone down about 25% and there are still no bubbles in the lines.

Had I not reprimed all carts I would certainly have had problems.

[NotSoEasy]

Thanks for all your info.Much of it makes perfect sense while the rest is a no brainer and I should have thought a little harder on the subject!

First thing, the Yellow ink issue.I thought about that first but then figured no way no how and went straight to thinking clog.It makes more sense though what you have noted and I will re-prime the carts ( all of them since I am installing new tanks ) to remove any air.

The one problem I see with these tanks though are the design of the inner tube.I see no need for it really if you just use the rubber plug and have a small hole in it.The inner tube goes down into the ink so ink is able to rise up while the hole you put the rubber plug in is just that, a hole that ink does not reach up to so long as you don't fill the tank all the way up which is suggested anyway.So I think I will plug the inner tube section ( there are actually rubber plugs for them, you are just supposed to replace with the air filter ) and then I will make a small hole in the rubber plug allowing air intake.This way it gets the needed air flow while not overflowing any ink since ink cant reach.
Would you recommend this? You can see the design in my images a few posts up.Where you see the air filters, plug those up completely and where you see the rubber plugs, you will notice that there is what looks to be a hole.Well there is but it don't go all the way through.I'm thinking maybe have it go all the way through and I can have my air flow?

Another issue is the tanks themselves not very well sealed.They are two section pieces mended together but maybe not so good.I found a few leaks at seams on some.Who knows if these new ones are better sealed or not.I have yet to add any inks other than Yellow at this point until I know what I want to do.That meaning do I go with these tanks or try another method for the ink bottles? I'm not worried about ink wasting as I have plenty.My main concern is ink loss all over my computer work area!

Thanks for your help.

EDIT:
Here is the same identical system I have.Same packaging and all.Other than mine is for the R300
http://www.szmicrotec.com/english/product2.asp?id=737
Seems 'POAD' just imports their CIS .... interesting.....

[Idle]

I wouldn't make a hole in the rubber plug — if you pierce the one in the main tank fill hole then you lose the constant pressure design and have to rely on the print heads to both supply enough vacuum to lift the ink when the tanks are low and prevent full tanks setting up a syphon and flooding the printer.

Piercing the one for the vent would be futile — the result would still be what you have now, but without the dust filters.

That inner tube is what the constant pressure design is all about (have a look at the Mariotte system & you'll see what I mean.)

I've used bottles of that general type for several years now and the system works fine — provided the bottles are properly put together (looks like yours may not be...) — there are a number of different patterns and sizes around, but the general principle is the same.

It's used in medicine for metering of fluids that have to be constantly supplied and accurate, and for many other purposes in industry and science — and it works very well indeed.

Shenhzen Microtec are probably the best known maker of CIS systems in China (probably because they make the most noise...) but by no means the only one.

And yes, so far as I know there are no longer any actual manufacturers of CIS systems in the US — nor anywhere else outside of Asia.

There used to be, but Chinese pricing has defeated them and those who are still around just go with the flow — either get the system or components as cheap as you can, sell cheap and keep your fingers crossed, or spend a lot of time and money researching the best parts and then all too often find the bulk supply you import doesn't match the sample you tested (don't ask me how I know this...)

Some suppliers do assemble sets out of parts sourced from various Chinese wholesalers, so they don't all look alike, but the majority do import them complete (often even already boxed) — hence the 'chinglish' instructions with most of them.

[thespook]

Hi
I have been using a signal ink cis on my Epsom R300 for the past 2 1/2 years with very few problems. I had a look at the Canon printers and I am impressed with them
Anyone using a cis on a Canon IP4300 if so what make is it and how do you get on with it.
Thanks

[NotSoEasy]

Thanks again Idle
Glad you cleared a few things up for me before I did anything to ruin the system.
As far as my setup being correctly installed, I followed the instructions to the 'T'
I fill the tank, no ink is seen in 'inner' tube.Soon as I insert rubber plug, I see the ink go up into that 'inner' tube and ink comes very close to over flowing.Doing a few prints does make the ink flow out the top eventually though.
I don't seem to understand how it is forcing ink out when it should be working on vacuum principal.It's like there is pressure build up and the only place for the ink to go is up and out.