The Best CIS ?

[FreeDiver]

Okay, I just ordered my Print for less refillable carts today, and for those of you that care, they also offer the syringes with the needles if needed. I chose this company because of the great customer service! Tim responded to all my emails without hesitation and that is something I really appreciated. PrintofaDime also responded as well, but overall with all the positive reviews from everyone on this forum, I went with Print for Less. As for Ink Jet Usa, their products may be good (ink is great so far) but their service is horrible. I emailed them a week ago about their refill carts and still no response....so go figure.
I'll keep those of you that still check on this forum up to date on my experience with these carts.....funny thing is that all of a sudden, my Way to Print CIS system is printing fine, in fact it's never printed as good...EVER! I'll switch over to the refills as soon as my cis acts up again, heck it may be fixed now after all the cleaning and alignments I"ve done, but what the heck, I'll use the refills as a back up. It's weird, sometimes the darn thing prints well, and then sometimes it' irritating as hell. I guess that's the problem with CIS's, their unpredictability. IF they could work out the kinks though, I would still prefer to use a cis, just because I'm lazy and hate the thought of having to refill my carts all the time. Overall, though I have to agree with the last several posts, maybe if you leave the darn thing alone and don't fuss with it as much, it'll work better.
One note about these refills though, it seems that there are 2 holes on top to refill the carts, and once you start to use them, you have to leave one hole unplugged....I wonder if eventually the dust that enters these carts will cause a problem with blockage. Hey Pool, you've have these carts for a while, what's your take on this?

[poolenglish]

freediver;
As for the holes in the top...I leave them uncovered (tank side) I read somewhere that you can place tape across all of the holes and put a pin hole thru the tape in each cart to same hole...making the vent hole smaller(makes sense). I tried it for a week but i think it is unneccessary....at least for me. I use the printer just about daily, or at least every 3 days. Good luck w/ the new carts. I am sure you will be happy with them.
btw--- you can use the syringes to drain ink from the cis to fill the new carts; thats what I did.
What a relief; no more flopping hoses!, jams etc.

[FreeDiver]

thanks Pool for all the info and help.

[scubasteve2365]

Ok, I ordered some printforless refillable carts a couple of months ago, however I just got around to installing them tonight, as the OEM carts lasted me this long.

Seems like a pretty simple process, I followed the directions, but now I cant get the printer to do ANYTHING.

The INK button, stays lit up red solidly, when I cross referenced that with the manual, it says that means a cartridge is empty or not installed.

when I press that button, the print head moves to the left as its supposed to, and it stops on the Black, Cyan, PhotoCyan, and PhotoMag carts. It doesnt stop on Mag, or Yellow.

I have lifted the carts out, two or three times, and reinstalled firmly. Does this indicate that I maybe have bad auto-reset chips.

The printer will not respond at all like this, when I look at the monitor to see ink levels, all 6 bars are greyed out, and it says searching.

What do I do??

[habs01]

Does this indicate that I maybe have bad auto-reset chips.

Sure looks like it. I would make sure the contacts on the chips are clean. You could try moving the yellow or mag cartridges to othes slots to see if they work in which case you would be sure the chips are at fault (I don't think the chips are color specific).

Good luck with that and let us know how the service goes with printforless if you contact them.

[poolenglish]

I think moving 1 cart to another slot is a mistake,

I was told that the cart chips are all different for each color. Tim told me that the chips are color specific

try unplugging the printer and plugging in in a minute or so.

Contact printforless and ask him.

[scubasteve2365]

All is working now. When the carts were made, whomever glued the auto-reset chips to the cartridges themselves did a poor job, as some dried up glue was covering one of the electronic contact pads, and was the reason why my printer wouldnt detect the new carts.

Once I cleaned the glue residue off, they charged up, ran a nozzle/clean cycle and all prints perfectly.

I can barely notice if any, a difference between the OEM ink, and the printforless ink

I do have another question though, for you guys running the same carts as I am.

In your print utility program, does it display the ink level for each cart? Even though my printer is functioning perfectly right now, the utility still has all 6 carts greyed out, is this how its supposed to be. Id like to see the amount in utility so it will help me keep a watchfull eye on the ink level in the carts, but it doesnt matter that much

[poolenglish]

scuba;
my printer displays ink levels and the bars go down but they are sort of useless....because the chips lie and are decietful; thank god lol

If you care to see the levels on the software... maybe a reinstall of the epson software after removing it?

I am just guessing that might help. GL ;POOL

[retiredjoker]

Well i have been reading this post for what seems like forever now right? I have found it very useful and im glad all the drama from the midpoint of the post is gone. I would like to tell everyone that i purchased my CIS from Print on a Dime for my r200. I upgraded to the 100ML tanks instead of the smaller ones for a small fee. Mine has been pretty much running flawless since i set it up a few months ago. I did not follow the manuals advice and route the tubes and tank on the right side of the printer.Instead i have the tubes and tank on the left side of the printer. I print tens to hundreds of ducuments in any given day including full graphics and rarely do i have any problems. If for some reason the printing starts to show sign of banding i simply run a couple of cleaning cycles and everything is fixed.I should also note that the guy who runs print on a dime answers emails pretty quickly and is very easy to work with. I am posting this because it seems as though everyone is moving away of CIS systems, but i felt i should let everyone know that there are still many people out there including myself who still believe these systems are the best bang for your buck.Maybe im just lucky but i love my CIS! Here is my setup.

[FreeDiver]

Retired Joker;
You know the funny thing is, have anyone here seen Herbie Unloaded? You know, where the car is possessed, and it gets mad when it feels that it's gonna get replaced with a newer model car. Well, it seems that ever since I ordered my Print for Less Refill carts, My way to print CiS kit seems to be possessed, and I think it's afraid that it's getting replaced and now it's working flawlessly! I can't explain it, but man it's working great now! (I think it may be that there was a lot of left over ink in the carts from my Stratitec stash and that may have been causing the problems with my pics, but who knows for sure) I love my cis kit again, and like Joker said, maybe I'm being lucky but as long as it works, I'll use it until it breaks then I'll switch to the refill carts. The funny thing is, I noticed a majority of my problems with the quality of pics, were because of the Epson Film Factory software, it sucked. I didn't even realize that the film factory was "fitting the photo" to the photo paper, and was actually "enlarging" the pixels on the pics (was printing on 4x6 sheets) to fit on my paper and making the pic quality look like crap! I started to use Adobe Photo shop to print and the difference is like night and day. Thanks Pool for the advice on Microweaving. I didn't understand it all, but ever since I've been using Photoshop to print, my photo's look perfect. I will only use Film Factory as a last resort now, but there is no way to get film factory to not tamper with the photo at all, it seems to always shrink or enlarge/cut some sort of the pic just to "fit" it on the 4x6 sheets. So as of now, I'm still a fan of the Cis system, but believe that the refill kits are just as good, but it's just a bit more of a pain to have to refill em all the time. Hey joker, let us know how the Print on a dime works out. Yeah, the staff at Print on a dime are great for responding to emails!

[DianeK]

Hi, All - I am jumping in as a brand new member who has been lurking and reading this thread for weeks. On Poole's suggestion, I ordered my smartcarts from Printforless last week for my brand new R220. I have had an R200 for a year, but two weeks ago I got a free R220 when I got a new digital camera. My Printforless carts arrived last night and I installed them. Boy - it was a pain to fill them without getting ink all over the place. I also have a Canon S9000 and have been refilling those carts for 2 years with no trouble, but these were hard to fill the sponge side without the ink squirting out the top hole. Finally got it done and installed them in my R220. Didn't have a problem because I first uninstalled the R220 drivers from the computer, disconnected the USB, turned the printer off and back on, removed the OEM carts, replaced with the new carts and they charged fine. Then I reinstalled the drivers on the puter without incident. My only problem now seems to be that he black cartridge shows a poor nozzle check. Probably have air bubbles in it or something.

My question is for Poole - do you really refill these without removing them from the printer?? And you don't get ink all over the place? Maybe I'm a bigger clutz than I thought but I will be worried the first time I have to do it. I used the 6 plugs on the sponge side and I am leaving the tank side open..is that correct?

Also..my OEM carts aren't empty yet..do you know the best way to store those carts? Is scotch tape over the bottom whole enough?

Glad to have found this forum.

Diane

[poolenglish]

diane hello and welcome.

I leave the carts in to refill. I just use the epson program to cart exchange. the carts move to the left and i refill them there. just make sure u use the needles on the syringes! or it will be a mess! also on the sponge side, i inserted the needle into the sponge, and slowly filled it.

"I used the 6 plugs on the sponge side and I am leaving the tank side open..is that correct?"

yes this is correct.

gl ;POOL

[scubasteve2365]

Diane, I dont have any direct experience with this yet, but I do have the same carts, I havnt yet refilled while in the printer.

what I plan to do, to keep it CLEAN, is when you refill the tank side, why fill it perfectly to the top. Ill just fill it about 90-95% full, and it should be good enough. Once the primary filling is done, and the sponge side doesnt have any airbubbles, then you shouldnt have to fill the tank side to the brim any longer, because all air is at the top anyway. This is clearly the reason why you leave the plugs out as well.

Dont think of it as a complete REFILL, but rather as a topping off of the tank.

[DianeK]

Thanks Pool and Steve -good advice, I'll just top off the tank side leaving a 1/3" or so.

I rushed home from work last night to try printing some pics now that the new ink had sat overnight to settle - the first thing I did was a nozzle check and it was perfect. So I printed a picture - Disaster! The colors were all wrong and blotchy! I was stunned! I was about to fly into a rage about the ink being crap when I decided to take a closer look at the carts and that's when I saw I had reversed the Cyan and Photo Cyan What a Dork! I corrected it and did another test print...much better! I was lucky that those two colors are so close the tiny amount of cross contamination that probably took place doesn't look permanent.

All is well now..I printed a few CDs too and I'm delighted to see the new re-designed tray and rollers work well - the old one on my R200 misfed 9 out of 10 times and would take an average of 4 tries to get it to feed right.

Thanks again for the tips!

Diane

[fscrocco]

Just an FYI. I bought the Canon Pixma 4000, U.K. version, and an upconverter. This model does dvd printing. Just my opinion, but I would never go back to the Epson. I had the R200 and threw it in the garbage after I used the Canon. No more mis-feeds, tray problems, clogging, etc. Also the Canon is much faster. The tray and roller assembly is very solid, as is the overall build of the printer. I've had a previous Canon, an HP 952, and the Epson. Also, have used alot of different printers at work and I honestly feel that the Canon is the best so far. BTW, there are alot of mod sites that show how to convert the U.S. model to dvd printing. The new Canon 4200 also has built in rollers on the U.S. version, so the software mod and acquisition of a tray (OEM or homemade) converts it very easily.

[fscrocco]

Forgot one thing, no matter how much I print, I can't seem to run out of ink!! The epson was terrible in this respect. Also, there was a question somewhere on this thread about pigment ink being more water resistant. I'm not sure about this, but the real problem is that the surface of the printable dvd is like a sprayed on liquid paper, think of it as similar to sprayed on white-out. If you wet it, it washes right off, so no matter what the ink characteristic, the surface won't hold up to water. Most people wouldn't give it this extreme of a test, but what if someone got food, chocolate, dirt, etc. on it, and you wanted to wipe it with a damp rag? I use a light spray of Krylon Crystal Clear, either gloss, semi-gloss, or satin. Its cheap and easy, just protect the underside. I take a standard, full size, cd jewel case, tear a little circle out of the middle of a napkin, and place the hole in the napkin over the hub. Snap the printed dvd over the hub, and it pulls itself down into the napkin, protecting the underside. Then spray a very light coat, 4 or 5 seconds, moving back and forth. The Krylon dries almost immediately. This seals and water protects the dvd.

[classfour]

Just an FYI on the chips on the Epson cartridges. I had one bad set on my CIS, which was replaced by printonadime.com (at no cost - great service) with 6 new chips. They WERE NOT color specific - just install one per cartridge. The originals were not glued to the cartridge, you could just pop them in and out - as long as you aligned them properly. I'm getting ready to test out some auto-reset cartridges bought on ebay in two other printers: I'll post an update when I get it done.

[habs01]

Wow the thread has been quite active in past couple of days. New people giving their feedback can only be a good thing. Until we find the absolute best, trouble free, indestructable system, user input like the ones above are helpfull in guiding us in our next purchase (then this thread will become useless).

Pool, concerning color specific:

I think moving 1 cart to another slot is a mistake, I was told that the cart chips are all different for each color. Tim told me that the chips are color specific

It seems you might not have the same chips as Dianek and Classfour.

RetiredJoker:

I am posting this because it seems as though everyone is moving away of CIS systems, but i felt i should let everyone know that there are still many people out there including myself who still believe these systems are the best bang for your buck.

I tend to agree with you here. If I was to weigh the pros and cons of CIS vs refillable, here's what I would state:

CIS requires less frequent refills and the refilling process is simpler + ink levels are more easily accesible (there sitting next to you). On the down side, CIS are a little more complicated to install because of the cable routing and are a more complicated system adding to the probability of something going wrong.

Refillables are a simpler technology that require more frequent user refills. The refilling process is a bit more trouble than with CIS.

That being said, I'm very happy with my CIS and it could die today that I could still say it was well worth it and it saved me a bundle in cartridges and trouble. Install it and forget it has been the way it's been so far.

Keep the comments coming.

[FreeDiver]

Well said Habs01. Though I bought a refill kit, since my Way to Print Cis system is working so great now, I won't be using my refill kit until my cis kit dies, it's kind of like a backup system. Since changing ink, I've been totally happy with my Cis kit. I personally highly reccomend the Way to Print Cis kit, I got one as a gift and my friend got one as well, with no complaints as soon as we bought good quality ink. I wish I had not scrimped (spelling???) and just bought the inkjetusa ink to begin with. I learned a valuable lesson folks, if your gonna invest in a Cis, then invest in good ink. Funny thing is, Inkjetusa no longer posts on Ebay and they have never returned my emails...I wonder if they are no longer in business...anyone know? Printforless seems to have good ink as well according to all the reviews here, so save yourself as much headaches as I had, and buy the good ink, then your Cis kit will work as it should. It's sad that this thread seems dead except for the past couple of days. The guys that gave so much good advice (especially Macro)(except Pool) are gone, but I learned alot from them. So, I'm with you Habs, I'm still a fan of my Cis. So if you want a testimonial for a great Cis system, give Way to Print a try. (If they are still selling their kits on Ebay)

[FreeDiver]

Don't know if this works, but here's a link to his store on Ebay, but it seems that he's not doing too much to promote the Cis kits anymore. He still seems to be selling parts and stuff, but not the kits that he used to sell, but oh well, here it is for those that want to see what he has to offer.

http://stores.ebay.com/WAY-TO-PRINT

[gumby]

Hi fellow printer owners;

I as many others, have read this thread pretty much from its beginning and followed it for quite a while now. In spite of the ups and downs that have been discussed on this forum I went ahead and purchased a CIS system, described below. And yup......troubles right from the git go. I feel it may be of my own making but wondered if anyone would care to give a little direction to me. I have enclosed part of a message which explains my problem I sent earlier tonight to the distributor.

Any help will be appreciated, with my thanks for your time in looking it over.

I have also included some photos for you to see if you can identify it's true source. The links are in random order.


Hello;

I require some information/help regarding a CIS system I picked up at Circuit City the other day.
It is numbered in the package and also on my bill as Nexxtech # 2618857.

I have researched similar systems on the web for the past few weeks and was pleased to see a local supplier for them. Having read at great length the thrills and woes others report I was happy to find how nicely this system installed in my printer.

However, upon turning on the printer it appears my system is out of ink. All colors indicate a problem. The Epson printer settings dialog box shows a yellow triangle over each/all colors, while the out of ink lamp on the printer indicated a problem. I double and triple checked to see if the cartridges were correctly installed, seated and positioned. While I was rechecking I carefully cleaned the contacts with a little alcohol on a swab. I then tested the printer as a stand-a-lone, it also indicated no ink. It is my suspicion that there may be a problem with the chips included. Can I purchase another set or different set to try??

I should mention this printer is brand new. On the first set of original cartridges, which, when reinstalled, worked and indicated correctly. I should also mention this printer is an Epson Stylus Photo R220. The kit I purchased is listed for various models including the R200 (earlier issue). The OEM cartridges for my printer is the same as the R200. That is why I took a chance in purchasing this system.

[gumby]

I'm sorry, I apologize for the size of those pictures. I am kind of unexperienced at this sort of thing. I thought I was just leaving a link. Oh well next time I'll know better.

Excuse me, Gumby

[poolenglish]

Gumby;
cool looking carts..., lowriders lol

I like how it looks, I prob would have went for the same set...but i got fed up with hoses flopping.

Best of luck!

[habs01]

I would have to agree with you that the problem is chip related since the printer doesn't know (or care) about how much ink is really in the cartdridges.

You should be either refunded or get an exchange. If you do get this systeme running, make sure you get the air bubbles we see in the huge pictures.

Good luck with that.

[gumby]

Thanks for the comments fellows.

As I mentioned I apologize for the pictures. Next time I'll try to figure out how to make them an appropriate size.
They did however convey what your observant eyes detected, air. While I was installing the carts I managed to pop the black cart inlet fitting out of the cart allowing the air into the line. Bleeding it out will be a small inconvenience for me.
The system came completely filled in the new package. There were a few bubbles present that I assumed had come from rough handling while being shipped.

I have had three emails from Orbyx Electronics regarding support of the product. Here is what they have to say.

"You will need to verify your printer’s manual in order to find out how to “tell” your printer that a new cartridge has been inserted.

Once the printer has been told that a new cartridge is installed, the problem will be rectified. You will need to repeat this process every time the low ink indication is displayed.

I hope this clarifies the issue to your satisfaction."

In previous threads here it seems to me someone mentioned a special 'on - off' process to get the printer to realize things have changed. I wonder if that is what the email refers to??

My instructions in the Epson manual just go into determining which carts are empty with the ink button and light. then using that button to park the carrier in the replacement position. After changing the carts, close the cartridge cover, close the printer cover, press the ink button again.

When this is done the printer should begin charging the ink delivery system. The power light flashes and the printer makes a noise. When it's finished, the green goes on steady and the red ink light goes out.

That is what should happen........and does with the OEM carts.

What happened to me with the CIS System was that after closing the cartridge holder and pressing the red ink light, the machine went through all the correct motions but ended up parking with the green light flashing and the red ink light on steady again.

This is when the on screen monitor page showed all the colors with the warning triangle on them.

Could someone with an R200 kindly verify for me that the above process is the same as I described for my R220.

I have not had another go at this yet till I get a bit more feed back from you more experienced posters on this board.

Any ideas or suggestions gratefully followed just now in getting this system to work (For a little while, at least )

Thanks again for you time, patience and knowledge.

Gumby

[poolenglish]

scci program for epson i guess might help, not the epson one... but the one found on the web.

[gumby]

Thanks Pool,

I'll go look for it..............meanwhile how do I get those larger pictures off here???

Gumby

[gumby]

Hello Poolenglish;

I searched around and came up with a couple of enlightening sites, one is that which I think you referred me to. The other linked to it. They have a wealth of useful information for those trying to get the most out of their CIS systems. For any who need more reading than they find here perhaps the answer lies at one of these links.

I however am still waiting for some more help/guidance for my problem.

SSC Localization Group
http://www.ssclg.com/cgi-bin/netboard/netboard.cgi?fid=268&cid=267&fct=gotoforum

All the FAQs 'CIS systems'
http://www.allthefaqs.net/forum/index.php?c=7

Thanks, Gumby

[gumby]

R220

From my observations of how this system is operating I have concluded that the problem stems somehow from the chipsets. In as much as all cartridges indicate similarly, not at all.

My question now is, has anyone successfully found a chipset that will work in a R220?? Preferably one that is not prone to resetting to 100% necessitating a full recharging each time. I understand some reset to show 95% which eliminates such a condition.(Oh, and how they did it?)

If not for a R220, how about for a R200 which uses the same OEM cartridge.

On the premise that I am able to obtain some other chips, can someone give an explanation as to how to go about replacing them? Can the old ones be salvaged when removed or are they too fragile.......What is the best way to attach the replacement set? Or do they come with instructions??
Any information along those lines will be very interesting and helpful to me.

Thank you again,
Gumby

[poolenglish]

I have researched this crap so much my head is sore.

Cis sucks at least for me...., waching hoses flopping worring about a tangle, and the dreaded screeeeeeck when shit gets tangled....best of luck is all I can say.

I have been thru all of that and am relieved with my refillables...printforless rules