The Best CIS ?

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Status Monitors -- what they do and don't do (just my 2c.)

Something I noticed when I first got my R310, which can print stand-alone from flash cards:

I installed the CIS and waste ink tank on the workbench and not connected to a computer and tried a few prints from the digital camera's SD cards, only to find it did a head clean before the first print every time a card was inserted or the machine turned off and on again with a card in it -- the status monitor obviously couldn't have had anything to do with this.

It wasted more than twice as much ink as it used.

Haven't tried printing from a card since the printer was connected to the computer, so don't know if it would still do that.

I can say, however, that this action doesn't happen when printing from computer (wouldn't need to!) -- the R series don't seem to do any more head cleaning than earlier models -- possibly even somewhat less.

My experience with Epson printers down the years has been that the status monitor has nothing to do with the number of head cleans the thing performs, nor does it affect the time the 'waste ink pads full' message comes up -- all that is either in the firmware, the driver program (which itself is megabytes) or both.

All the routine actions and messages will still happen whether or not the status monitor is installed.

Case in point: My other Epson inkjet is a Color 900, which came out before Windows XP, so Epson (with $'s in their eyes?) declined to produce an updated driver for it and the one built into XP is, to say the least, rudimentary.

They did, however, produce one for the Color 980 -- same printer, different firmware, and I found the new 980 driver program worked perfectly on the 900, but not so the status monitor which installed under XP but then didn't work and so was dumped.

The printer performed under XP and XP SP1 with no monitor exactly as it had under Win98SE with the working status monitor -- head cleans, cartridge changes and what-have-you didn't alter at all, the utility controls were the same and the only difference was that I no longer saw the ink levels.

Incidentally, the 980 drivers won't even install under XP SP2 -- the installer just declares the 980 printer not found and shuts down.

Micro$oft, of course, had nothing to gain from this change so it has to have been arranged by Epson, probably under the guise of an updated driver -- all it's achieved in my case is that the workshop computer remains on XP SP1.

Idle, Thanks for this info. So, do I understand that if I were going to buy a new R series Epson, I would be better off to get the R200 since the R300 only advantage is to be able to print straight from a memory card, but will waste ink because of cleaning when card is inserted? Wheee, thats a long question.LOL Between you and Mac, I'm getting a fast education on Epson printers and I really do appreciate that.
Thanks

[FreeDiver]

Thanks micro for the GREAT info! I have decided to buy this system and see if it works. Supposedly the seller is supposed to redo his site and post more pics, so hopefully it'll look better. I will keep you all posted on the printer and the stratetic ink. Thanks again....and yes, I'm a diver!

[Idle]

Macro: From reading the relevant section of the R300/310 repair manual and looking at both the 300 and 200 service programs, my thought is that there's a firmware update program that appears not to be part of the service program -- probably comes with the updates, just like the one for your motherboard, but only available to service personnel.

The maintenance programs do include the ability to extract and save the firmware code, but apparently not to write it back.

The program copies I have include area settings for Asia-Pacific, and for the x00 and x10 versions (Australia gets x10), so whether this includes the US I can't say, but there would certainly be others for Europe (might only be language versions, of course -- I wasn't going too deeply into something I don't fully understand, and that will only run with the device turned on...)

Like: The 300 and 310 printers can also have a USB device such as a digital camera or memory device plugged into them for the computer to access (given the number of USB ports in modern computers this is probably of little interest (my LCD monitor has a 4-outlet hub built in -- I've never even looked at it)) and do various other things that the 200's can't.

When the printer's turned on my computer recognises its USB reader as a removable disk (and it's USB 2.0, so it would be a fast reader.)

I've also seen reports that CD/DVD printing is handled better by them (how true this is I wouldn't know -- it's been reported by at least one magazine tester who ran them back-to-back.)

Certainly my 310 prints them very accurately.

Since the street price difference here is trivial ($A30-40), the assembly is somewhat different to the 200 and I already had the service manual for it, I thought "why not get it?"

The 300's do have a quite big bulge on the right side that makes fitting a CIS rather less simple, and the top frame differs a bit on the left side as well.

If you've not bought already, have a good look at them side-by-side first.

[macrovision]

Idle, I known exactly what you mean about not being able to write the firmware back, That's the difference between a EPROM and EEPROM. The question I need answered is whether or not the firmware is on a flashable chip because if it is then it'll be easier to hack. On the other-hand if it's EPROM the any-one that wants to hack the firmware to rid of that awful auto-clean cycle will have to open the printer at the least and some(including me) may-not feel the price($99.00 in New York) is so expensive that time must be wasted to save a buck or two worth of ink. I used to repair electronics and I can tell you that out of all the equipment I own the only thing I'de spend time and money to repair now-a-days is my laptop....any-thing else gets replaced because the time and effort isn't cost effective.

[Idle]

Sorry, Macro -- forgot to say that, according to the manual, it's an EEPROM, so it should be flashable.

What I meant was that the write routine doesn't seem to be in the service program, so it must be on the same site as the repair .bin file, which is probably a secure site.

[macrovision]

Idle,I hate that because the flasher program is different for each type of device now-a-days. I wish there was a universal program like way back when. If I knew that the chip's write pins weren't disabled I'd try to find the manufcturer for the chips...Then I'd probably be able to find the write technique. They can disable the write feature by either jumpers or simply soldering them to points that lead no-where.

[jeff d]

Idle: Do you have the service program up and talking with your printer? If so can you save the firmware and send it to me? I'm really curious about if it's a raw binary or something else. I'd also like to get my hands on an upgrade just to see how it's constructed.


macro:A lot of the current programmers can auto-detect the chips, so even if it's something you can't figure out a lot of times the programmer can.

Did you look at the schematics? You'd be better at reading those than me, but there are flash parts on the R300. Can you tell from a schematic what package the chip is in? Do the schematics correctly show the chip package type? I hate SMCs and would think the software would be the only way to upgrade if that were the case (I'm not into pulling those parts). Something that's easy to remove is a different story.

[macrovision]

Jeff d, I haven't gotten a chance to download the schematics but I'm gonna goto ozmods web site now to get them..If they're still up. Otherwise I was gonna buy them from another web-site but first I was gonna wait until tommorrow and call the service center near me or go there and speak with a technician on the low,low! Ya see, I'm old fashioned even though I'm only 35years old. I was taught that money talks and bullshi* walks so I'll rather speak to a tech to see If these printers are USB flashable....You do know that most of the current firmware devices can be flashed via USB port? I just wanna know if this is the case because if it is then maybe the service program can somehow get misplaced or copied.

[jeff d]

macro, the schematics are at the end of the service manual ozmods has those in the firmware section. (at least they are in the r300) I grabbed everything I could before it disappears!

Since there's no other ports onthe back I sure hope it can be flashed with USB. I didn't see any connectors in the schematics (but they may not have been shown?)

I didn't think the service app worked via USB from what I saw the choices were printer ports only. And since there's no serial or parallel port on the printer I'm not sure what that means.

[macrovision]

Jeff d, I registered at ozmods web site butI cannot download using the computer I'm on right now because the connection is too slow. Yeah I could do it but I'd rather do it when I get to the high spped LAN later on today. As I posted... Sometimes manufacturers use a jumper to disable the EEPROM write feature or they'll just simply not solder the pins to a point on the circuit board that'll lead to the processor or USB board. This is because they had/have no plans on creating user flashing programs and/or firmware. It'll have to be hacked. I know that I can do it if I get the right leads... Reading the program is only 1/4 of what we need...Complete Schematics, And knowledge of the type of EEPROM setting used(are the write pins connected to the processor) as well as the dynamics of the printers main processor. Does the main processor support the write function or is there a seperate device that governs the smart-chip write. Theoretically I believe the smart-chip is being monitored for tampering. My HP 1210 has pins on the cart and firmware that tracks the serial number...If I block the pins It'll think it's a new cart. On the other hand the Epson "R" line printers will destroy the chip. That's F*cked up! Anyway it needs a good filter...it has to let the signal pass but rectify the signal first...like how a diode changes AC to DC. I might make an smart-chip jig that keeps the chips out of the printer so I can monitor the writing but I need to know what each pin does....I'll try to figure that out once I read the schematics...If the EEPROM leads to something I'm familiar with It'll get hacked, Smacked, And wacked...Not a problem. But anyway take a look at this web site http://www.eddiem.com/photo/CIS/inkchip/chip.html

[FreeDiver]

Just to advise everyone, I have purchased a system from Way to Print, but alas, someone bought the other one. Hopefully he'll get more in soon, and I will keep you posted when I get mine in on how good it is.

[jeff d]

mv, yeah I'd been reading through that site. The guy had done a lot of good reverse engineering on what's happening. =)

I don't think I've ever seen anything on a device that monitors the firmware. Other systems, sure but not a printer, but I haven't hacked any printer firmware before. I've looked at a majority of embedded systems out there, but this one may be tough with the custom epson chips. Really need to figure out an instruction set before anything can really happen and that could take some work.

The schematic looks like a flash a DIP package, but I'm clueless with electronics. I don't know if the drawing is accurate. But if so, it should be easy to remove and read.

We're way OT here. Maybe we should really take this discussion off to ozmod or somewhere else?

[poolenglish]

If you consider hourly wage, for time messing with and taking apart, flashing, reprograming,re-whatever.....maybe it might be cheaper to just by another $95 printer?
I cleaned out my jwl sales system of ink, (what a mess) to save $15-20 at the most on ink that i recovered, after about 3+ hours total it is done.....live and learn.
I used the JWL cis 6+ months satisfied but I am going with refillable carts now,no more hoses flopping ;yeehaa! and I am able to refill while in the machine. I bought the carts at www.printforless.tk $50+10 shipping, ink is cheap there too $30 for 6/100ml bottles

so..... my vote on the best cis is NONE ,
refillables are less stress on the brain
hey macro whatup!

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I just bought a new Epson R300 with CIS and all the goodies such as cables, CD/DVD tray, some photo paper (how many sheets=?) & software for $188 including freight from Print For Less. The CIS system is the same as the one here...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=14303&item=6770986685

I only hope I didn't screw up as far as the CIS system itself, but don't think I did as for the printer. I just couldn't pass up the price. LOL
Thanks Idle on the printer info & thanks to Poolenglish for the Printforless site![/url]

[Idle]

Jeff d. : The service program doesn't require installation, nor even to be unzipped.

If you have WinRar, just turn the printer on, open the file and double-click the program -- it's self-contained with all dll's required.

Note it won't start unless the printer's connected and turned on, so obviously no special equipment is required there.

Choose your language (English = Pacific), choose your printer (300 or 310), select the port (USB) and you're good to go.

Under "Maintenance" you'll see the option "Eeprom data copy" and under "Appendix" there's "Save all eeprom data".

The rest of what it does is equally clearly marked -- most of it I wouldn't fiddle with, but I think all the parameters required are in the manual.

BTW, I'd have a good look at the manual's section on the mainboard and eeprom first -- if the program erases as it copies (unlikely, I know, I've never seen it done -- but conceivable) without the write routine you'd be deep in it...

Macro: I have the service program for the R200, but not as yet the service manual -- as you know the 200 and 300 will have different firmware etc.

[poolenglish]

I just bought a new Epson R300 with CIS and all the goodies such as cables, CD/DVD tray, some photo paper (how many sheets=?) & software for $188 including freight from Print For Less. The CIS system is the same as the one here...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=14303&item=6770986685

I only hope I didn't screw up as far as the CIS system itself, but don't think I did as for the printer. I just couldn't pass up the price. LOL
Thanks Idle on the printer info & thanks to Poolenglish for the Printforless site![/url]

good deal likee,and your deal was with the ink?..wow i hope the cis works out for ya, you can always go for the refillable carts later. and yw for the link.

[macrovision]

Idle, I agree with poolenglish. The printer to me isn't worth hacking if it's gonna be an time and a half issue. I like cracking codes, Modding hardware, And re-writing programs but at this time I can't afford the over-time. The site I gave the link to earlier was to show the way the printer re-writes the data on the smart-chip. Modding the output to the chip so it can't update but thinks it did seems more cost effective. I believe the clock signal informs the printer where and when to write...I don't currently have a digital storage oscilloscope so I can't be sure....It's gonna be another month or two before I can afford to invest in the equipment I need for my lab so until then I'll just have to wing it. I'm waiting for my black cart to reset(It's at 20%) and when it does I'll see how the printer responds...I'll post if it auto-cleans and If it does then I'll probably try a mod of my own...Diodes to filter the write. Anyway who said it would take a rocket scientist to figure this out...it looks like machine language in 4 bit (.5 byte) packages

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poolenglish, Thanks,
He gave me the choice on CIS or refillable carts with ink, but I wanted to give the CIS a chance to work. I might have to go with the carts, but hope not. I just checked with Epson site and they have this printer for $150 & Newegg for $132 and boths freight is really high to ship to Hawaii. So, considering what I'm getting at $188 is pretty good.

[poolenglish]

poolenglish, Thanks,
He gave me the choice on CIS or refillable carts with ink, but I wanted to give the CIS a chance to work. I might have to go with the carts, but hope not. I just checked with Epson site and they have this printer for $150 & Newegg for $132 and boths freight is really high to ship to Hawaii. So, considering what I'm getting at $188 is pretty good.

Well... considering i paid $107 locally for the printer(tax included, not on sale) and $100+ for the jwl cis you are ahead of my game. let us know how it goes! and btw send me a pineapple or macadamia nuts! lol

[bidefordboy]

Great to see you tech guy's are working on the auto-cleaning problem. After reading & re-reading your comments I am beginning to understand a bit more on how these printers work. Keep it up

[macrovision]

I'm looking into an explaination as to why my printer's acting retarded. It has me baffeled. I've been printing covers and DVD's lately and I had a few resets without auto-clean cycles. It maybe true that the printer updates the smart-chip upon powering on and off(this is probably why Epson recommends that you turn it off every-day)Anyway I haven't turned mines off for about 2 months. I purposely have been trying to trigger a reset(my black levels were at 20%)...I've noticed that no matter how much I print my magenta seems to stay at 100%...I printed pics that used mainly magenta...still 100% levels and my black level went to 27%.....MY PRINTER IS MAD....MAD I TELL YOU!.......Whatup Poolenglish!

[poolenglish]

macro, have you had the printer less than a year? I know that with my old lexmark.... the company sent me a box to return it and sent me a new one, it was 11 mo. old at the time. I hope epson does the same.

[macrovision]

Poolenglish, I've had this one about 3 months....It works fine, But I have a CIS that has so called "90% auto-reset chips" It has always reset to 100% and Auto-cleaned but lately it's resetting and not auto-cleaning plus one level stays at 100% no matter how much I print. It's not really a problem...It's just that I'm studying the resets and I can't do that if it doesn't reset. I know if I turn it off and back on It'll return to normal but I don't want that just yet....I have a couple of orders so I'll get to see if it has a mind of it's own(It probably does!) Anyway Epson sent me to a local "Authorized repair center" last time...If it's under warranty(1 year) then they'll fix or replace it(fix it). They'd rather fix it..even if the parts cost more than the printer because they make more than $99.00 from that deal....Later...I got some "nothing" to do.LOL!

[poolenglish]

macro; Well it sounds like you use the printer a lot for $. Buy another r200 (for a backup while being replaced)and complain to the company about service and insist on a replacment because of poor service.The epson company must produce the printer for less than 50-60 bucks, and should not be to tuff to do. anyways, resets are not that big of deal for me, if i have to use ink it is a cost of doing business, as long as the machine works i am happy.

Printers have always been a pain in the ars and I guess they always will be.

[jeff d]

For those that don't know... epson sends out refurb replacements, along with a return shipping tag. You take the "new" printer out (ink included) and ship back the old one in the same box.

Idle, I'll give the tool a look, I'm confused as to the read and wipe. The way these parts work you'd never want to do that. You might want to wipe before a write, but never after a read. But... you suggested that would be odd. =)

The firmware ain't in the EEPROM, the EEPROM is only 1KB and that's not enough space. The firmware will be on the flash part, that would be my best guess. It seems like only 59 bytes are used in the fw I have. The first two bytes are the value for the waste pad, I'm sure I can figure out all the values, but there's really no point unless the carts values are mirrored here, but I doubt that.

The SM has a pict of the mainboard and all the important parts are surface mounted. So much for easy removal. Someone grab the chipquick.

macrovis, good luck with the talking shop with the tech guys. I hope you can find out how to reprogram (and read) the flash on these printers.


yikes, it says that 7% of bland-new ink (yes bland new) is used on a cleaning and 15% of bland-new ink on an ink charge. That's NUTS especially when you factor in that all colors and black are done together for the average consumer!!!

[Idle]

Jeff d. : I don't really think they'd be stupid enough (or cunning enough...) to wipe the data after copy -- I just suggested they might.

They'd surely never do it after read.

With only 59 bytes on the flash part, I wonder if we're seeing all of it -- there's a lot of functions built into that thing, it's far more than just a dumb slave printer.

Either that or Epson are very confident their major functions will never need fixing and have them in ROM.

[macrovision]

Idle and all, Epson used to send out replacement printers (R200) but for some reason they now prefer for you to take it to a service center. I don't understand the reason why we just can't block thw write....I understand that the printer monitors the read/write through the sync/clock but isn't there a way to block the write? After all my 100% magenta level hasn't been changed for 2 days and yes I've been printing...maybe the chip won't tolerate the re-write but the printer has nothing to say about it. BTW I've been very busy the last few days and I haven't downloaded the service manual yet plus I need to know if I can get that service tool from ozmods? I wanna take a look at the firmware and the tool.

[jeff d]

mv, you can get the service too and the sm from ozmods, if you can't PM me an email and I'll send it to you.

There's nothing firmwarewise for the RX00 series on the epson site (at least not that I could find). They also don't have the service apps online anymore. They use to be there, and there are firmware updates for several other printers.

The easiest thing to do may be to figure out how to keep the cart chip's write line from going lo/hi to prevent writes. If the write is a specific pad it could be as simple as covering that one pad no?

[macrovision]

Jeff d, I've been studying the schematics for the last hour or so....The flash chip is in tsop packaging...It maybe what we thought at first(PEROM)...I've searched databases and most parts(chips) are unknown...The beginning codes are E0 and I'm having problems locating the manufacturer. The tsop flash chip's ID is: (IC2) flash. 8/16/32/64m. tsop. I'm gonna study the schematics in more detail when I get home. And I called the technician...He told me that I'll have to talk to " EPSON " about the "FIRMWARE"("BITE ME!") SOOOO.....I called "EPSON" and they were kind enough to give me the "F"ing run around..."THANKS EPSON!"("BITE ME!") Anyway...They're not talking....NSA type of material I guess!

[macrovision]

Jeff d, It seems that the R200/R300 printers have 2 64 mb SDRAM chips (TC75000) in parallel and a 64mb flash chip(TSOP). The Schematics show the flash chip to be 48 pins however they didn't include a specific chip number but I've noticed that it's connected directly to the processor along with the SDRAM chips. I've researched this flash chip and used the service program to save the firmware...The firmware is an .EEP file which I've tried(not much) to read. I'm gonna try converting it to a bin or hex file later on tonight but I need to tell that I've heard of TSOP lock chips and It's quite confusing what the service program means when it states"now replace the main board and select write EEPROM data". Does the service program have the abilityto flash the EEPROM, Or did Epson get smart and lock the chip? I'm skeptical about using the write to EEPROM feature until I know what the firmware back-up is....Is it all of the firmware...I have 1k....is that all from a 64mb chip?...Oh and yada...yada....yada. Wish me luck! LOL! Also I think of the write to the chips mod as a diode used in a circuit to rectify(change AC to DC)..If the write command is 1 this should be represented as a AC waveform on an oscilloscope...put the rectifier before the output and the signal will no longer be AC..It'll be DC causing the write to be 0...this I believe is possible but you may only succeed at making the carts read 100% all the time and this will cause auto-cleans cycles like never before but I have another Idea...A smart-chip cascadeone chip is at 90% but the writing will be done to a dummy-load(Chip)..this dummy will not be responsible for updating the printer about ink levels...I'll only accept the write..watta ya think?