The Best CIS ?

[jeff d]

just posted this over in the jlw topic, but it appears there's a new version of the jlw CIS. I didn't see any sales, but I'm thinking about checking it out. Unless someone can advise me to stay away, looks like they keep updating the design! I like the refil funnel.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1246&item=5206527559&rd=1


Also claims to not use cheap chinese inks (at least in the UV one)

[jeff d]

As for JLWSALES, I believe that he may have had too many complaints about his system breaking down over time and his replacement carts are OEM standard so common sense tells me that he doesn't have to spend alot to change to the "NEW GENERATION CIS" and I think this will help his sales...
....
The "Smart-Chips" are currently "Classified technology from what I've acquired...I couldn't get as far as finding the output information(such as what each pin goes to)and the ssc utility is disabled on my computer...

Do you think his new stuff is "generic" it looks like a in-house design.


As to the pads, was this from the guy with the scope images on his site? I'd love to know more (but didn't see that) Appears to be a serial transfer and that should be something easy to hack. Look at the DSS stuff, slip a thin card between the two contacts and route the data through a PIC and filter out the write.

The other option would be to modify the firmware, any info on the firmware in the service manuals? If the firmware is something that can easily be removed I'd be willing to look into that. That could be the way to go, no need to worry about the cart chips if you can just nop that stuff int he firmware. This is really OT and needs to be discussed elsewhere, but I'm interested.

[macrovision]

Thank-you for the link to the new jlwsales cis kit....YES! I'll buy it! It is indeed OEM standard and I'm gonna get the parts from him to mod my old jlwsales cis kit. I just checked the levels on my printonadime cis kit. I have 2 levels at 96% ....97% however it didn't do an auto-clean? I disabled the ssc monitor and the Epson monitor thinking "Just let the chips do their job" So I'll keep you guys updated on how that goes. As for firmware...you'll need the Epson flasher program and if you don't have an insider....Ya might not be able to get that program not to mention that flashihg the printer with modded firmware can be your down-fall....I had a bad experience like that with a NEC 1300A DVD burner....it made a loud noise and croaked so my advice....don't do it! Waste mod.....pull and wash the pads....reset the waste ink counter...cover the printer when your not gonna use it....carefully clean out the printer well.....and keep it in a warm room(opposed to a cool or cold room) and you'll be fine....I'm runnig on 3 months with this printer/cis and I haven't had a bad nozzle check in about a month....I did about 500 or 600 full color faced DVD's and case lables and I love it! Thanks forum! Thanks Jeff d! 8)

[Idle]

I've looked at the new JLWS system as carefully as one can given the picture quality on Ebay.

The tanks, I'd say, are the same as his older sets, as is the tubing which is very flexible.

The 'constant pressure system' existed in his older sets as well -- the pressure is that between the air inlet in the side of the bottle and the bottom (what's above the air inlet is suspended from the top -- the Mariotte bottle system.)

The bottles on my new one, on examination, prove to be true Mariotte bottles with the air inlet at the bottom, which will apply no pressure to the system so long as the filler point seal stays airtight (mustn't be rough with the plugs...) for which reason I prefer the JWLS bottles that fill via the air intake, even though they do run with a slightly lower vacuum.

The carts look identical to the ones in my (still uninstalled -- time is scarce lately!) set from Las Vegas, even unto the printing on the blue label.

Whether they are, of course, remains to be seen -- if they are of lesser height, as his blurb seems to imply, then they can't be.

(Incidentally, if the tubes are anchored to the carriage as shown in his photo, they'd have to be on lower cartridges to go in my R310 with the grey cover left on -- which the older set I have would do anyway.)

As to his claims of being the manufacturer, I'd be inclined to substitute "assembler" -- the cost of setting up to make the plastic parts used would be very high, plus the technology used in the carts and tanks differs substantially, both in material used and precision (and then there's the chips and tubing.)

Having said all that, it does look quite a quality outfit -- as does its price.

[FreeDiver]

Hey everyone, after reading everyones posts, I've been hooked into buying a CIS for myself. I went to Office depot and bought a Epson R200 for $50.00 with rebate(hurry sale ends this week) and now am trying to decide which CIS to buy.
I am interested in the following system and was wondering what everyone thought of it, or if anyone has bought one and what are their thoughts. It's a system from "Way to Print" at Ebay...this is what is advertised.....(Please forgive whatever ignorance that I have at this point)

MODEL EPR-01
This is a non-pressurized CIS bulk ink system.
This contains:
Six 100ml ink storage containers
The attached ribbon tubing
The 6 non-foam ink cartridges with ribbon tubing attached(this is supposed to be good right? )
Six always full chips installed on the cartridges
Two ribbon tubing routing clamps to guide the ribbon tubing during operation
An English instruction manual with a generous number of photographs

The reasons that I am interested in this system is the following;
1)The chips only reset to 95% because (this is what he told me in a email) if the chips reset all the way to 100%, then it triggers the printer into thinking that there are new chips installed, thus triggering a cleaning. This may be a reason that some people complain of it going through a cleaning cycle after it resets to 100%.
2)It's easy to refill. You refill by twisting a cap on the top, and pouring in. No syringes to refill.
3)The resevoir bottles are kept in a small plastic clear box, thus making it a bit, child and petproof.
4)It sucks ink out from the top, and thus eliminating any hole on bottom, which may allow for seepage if there is ever a break in the seal.

So what do you guys and gals think? Am I going to be the guinea pig? If I am, I will keep you posted.

But before I go, a few questions for the gang;
1)I was so exicted to try out my printer, that I bust out the cartridges and loaded them to test print a dvd,,,it came out beautiful, but I was wondering, if I get my CIS system and pull out the cartridges, will they then be useless? Can I ever resuse the cartridges if I needed to for whatever reason?
2)I saw that Stratetic (spelling) ink at Sams Club online, and let me tell you.....520ml for only $7-$9 a bottle....darn thats cheap...has anyone ever tried this ink? For that price and amount, I figure it's a typo, but I'm going to try and order it anyway and see...only thing is that they only ship to Continental U.S. and I live in Hawaii...hmm...where theres a will, there's a way!

I hope this goes through, my first post got lost somehow, but anyway, any help is greatly appreciated and thanks to whomever started this post, it helped me narrow my choice down a lot!
[/b]

[Idle]

Here's an interesting looking CIS -- pay particular attention to the small amount of ink in each cart (look at the area near the print-head), and the way it's assembled to be installed in one piece.

The description could do with some editing, though.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=51310&item=6775950720&rd=1

[macrovision]

Aloha. Freediver,can you post a link to the cis dealer your talking about....It's also how the carts are made...are they hollow(this is bad) and as for the auto-reset deal....we're still waiting for a reset that doesn't do an auto-clean.....It's been months for me and still auto-cleaning when-ever there's a reset. Idle, You know more about these systems than most and I feel that the small amount of ink can be a bad thing if there's great demand for ink and the system doesn't have a large reserve when a person forgets to refill before a large print-job and the tanks are the same as my printonadime cis tanks...as for the single piece design....what happens if one cart goes bad....you'll have to replace the entire piece....BTW JLWSALES offered to sell me 6 "NEW GENERATION CIS CARTS" for my old JLWSALES system at $5.50 each....$40 for everything! I'm gonna take it! LOL!

[jeff d]

Since I haven't seen it asked, and I know I'm not the only one to think it....

Can the captured waste ink be recycled back into the system as black? I know it's not a perfect match for the real black, but... would it work? I can't see why not.

[bidefordboy]

Was thinking the same thing last night when my carts recharged. What a waste of good ink. I would have thought that if the ink is used for just printing covers & dvd's it could be mixed in with the black. So long as the waste container is perfectly clean.
What do you think Mac ?

[OSU]

Macro - How difficult is it to retrofit new cartridges to the old unit?

[OSU]

I went to Office depot and bought a Epson R200 for $50.00 with rebate (hurry sale ends this week)…

Actually for the lower 48, that offer ended last Friday. Only AK and HI are still eligible for the $50 rebate.

[macrovision]

Bidefordboy, I think that your right about the waste container being clean...however it's playing russian roulette with your printer because the chance of microscopic ink particles drying while thet're in the waste tank. In all honesty....Ink isn't a hundred dollars a millilitre...I know it's a waste but put it down the drain....I think you'll be better off. OSU, Retro-fitting new carts on the old system is so easy you literally can do it with a blind-fold on. The hardest part is cleaning the tanks and hoses (you must let them dry completely before installing the connectors). I cleaned mines already(about 2 weeks ago) You'll drain all the ink if not already done and carefully clip the tubing where the carts connect (try to keep all tubing equal lengths when cutting) then you'll fill the tanks with water and let it drain...repeat until the tanks are clean....you may want to use an ammonia and water soultion to help clean it and flush with water 2-3 times when you finish...Donot use paint-thinner....It'll destroy the tanks. Once the tanks are clean let it dry for a few days( swing the hoses in a whipping manner to expel any water droplets before sitting it out to dry ). The new carts will have connectors..they are easy to install...Just push the small nipple on the dry hoses and insert the large end in the slot on the carts...If you wanna get fancy then buy some plumbers "GOOP" and use it to secure both ends(the posts to the hoses and the posts to the carts) I recommend the latter because if you acciddently pull the connector out of any of the carts you'll be sorry.

[Idle]

Thanks to Jeff D, I've now had a good look at the detailed view (copied the pix to Photoshop, where I can enlarge them) of the new JLWS system.

Looks excellent -- in fact the very embodiment of something I've been turning over in my mind for a while (is that "great minds think alike" or "fools rush in"?)

Wish I hadn't bought the new system I have sitting on the shelf, now.

Macro, you may find a problem attaching the old tubing to the new carts -- the tube diameter has been reduced quite a bit (so that the printer lid can be closed completely without damaging the tubes), so you might need to glue it (hot melt?) if it's too big for the fittings.

The carts have been reduced in height by about 6mm, so the grey cover can certainly be left on, and they'll weigh noticeably less, which will more than account for any extra drag on the carriage motor from the tube weight (which has also been cut.)

So long as the outlet seals have been properly done and the chips are right, I really think they've got it this time.

My only doubt is about the thinner tubes -- 1.8mm is pretty small for a long run like that, you'll have to be super-careful in avoiding sharp bends or anything that might even slightly kink the tube, and NEVER let any dust get in.

Re: Re-using the waste ink -- I can only agree with Macro.

Whilst any impurities should be caught by the cartridge filters and not reach the print head, I'd still think it too risky to try.

Besides, the printed results will be rather ugly.

[macrovision]

Thanks Idle, Ya probably right about the fittings however I can get extra fittings from Jlw... I'll just make him aware that I'm attaching them to the old system. If I succeed and post about it will you mod your jlw Kit?.... I mean your the smartest one I've ever ran into when it comes to this particular subject...for example: The reason why the carts are made with chambers... I thought it was because of the Ink charging but you straightened me out by explaining that they're there to support the constant forward and reversing of the print-head...keeping the ink in the cartridge reservoir. BTW I called Epson for some facts.... The Epson monitor 3 doesn't support the write to the smart-chip...It only updates the computers screen and the tech stated that he's "800%" sure that Epson manufacturers their own Ink. I noticed that my chips resetted but don't know when...I remember the last time it did an auto-clean was last week-end and the color that reset was magenta... I see yellow full and light magenta full now but I didn't see and auto-clean....I've been printing quite a bit since the last auto-clean and I disabled all printer monitoring programs thinkng that the program may have been talking to the printer causing the auto-clean cycles. I searched high and low for information about the Intelldge chips and the firmware but it's been so much of a dead-end that I'm starting to think the NSA is designing these things for Epson. Anyway I'm still gonna drive myself crazy trying to find out how to hack these printers because I love a challange. 8)

[jeff d]

Just to state it once again... note on macrovision's info when cleaning these things do not use tap water, use de-ionized "clean" water.

I'm about to bite the bullet on the new system.


Macro, if you want an embedded sw guy to help you out, let me know. I really thing that modifying the firmware is the way to go. I KNOW they don't have any security in place so it would just figuring out the commands to communicate with the cart and then getting rid of what we don't want.

[macrovision]

That sounds dandy Jeff d..... I need a to get the schematics and study them to find out if this fimware's on an EEPROM...most likely it is but then we'll need a flasher/extractor not to mention hex/bin editor.... Got a headache yet? And FYI it can be old fashioned...yeah modified TTL 555 clock timer chipped leading to the processor to support auto-clean every time the chips read 40 % drops in level and the major clean upon 100% level. Got Tylenol? Because it can be embedded in the printers processor( NON-FLASHABLE).... I see it this way... $99.00 for this one.... It'll drop in price when newer/better ones hit the market/Holidays roll around. I'll take it apart/desolder/read schematics eventually... I do that to every-thing...since I was a child....can't help myself...need to know what makes it tick. I'm not gonna do it right now because I have a very busy life for the next few months.

[jeff d]

macro, got all the tools of the trade, the clock to force the cleaning is a bitch, not happy with that, but I was thinking there may be a way to modify the chip to have it always read out what we want. A delta of 0 may never force a cleaning!

At this point I know zero about this system other than there's info kept on an eeprom (let me at it) and there's ROM somehwere. Yes, maybe the same eeprom. Sounds like the part can be programmed via some serial connection (headers on the board?) not sure. I'd like to have a true ROM part and just use an EEPROM socketed in place of that part. I've got hardware and software for programming parts, just need to figure out what I'm working with first...

I've got an R300, but if you have an R200 and you've got it opened up and can you take good picts of the boards and parts I'd be happy to start snooping around.

This is really OT maybe we should start another thread (here or elsewhere) or use PMs, but I'd love to know if others have researched this (how could they NOT?), but if they have I can't find much online about it.

[macrovision]

Jeff d I was being broad with the timer chip because it's a possibility since I've never heard of an epson printer flashing program.... I'm thinking more about ways to filter the smart-chips write command....make it think it's writing something but the message gets no-where.. what do you think....I think that's the more effective route...Keep the levels where-ever we want them printer on printer off same levels....I'm not sure if Epson Techs will discuss the details of the firmware with me. I'm gonna try again tommorrow to purge information from they're inky little hands.

[Like]

Aloha all, I've been following this thrread for a long time and most of you are very knowledgable about these CIS's. I have a Epson Photo 960 printer and not too many sources out there for mine. However, I did find one by jlwsales & looks like you are swinging back his way. I would like to ask how to disable the Epson monitor and where did you find the information for the waste bottle? I'm an old man so pardon my speeling and use of the English langurage. Any help is would be appreciated.
Mahalo!
Like

[Idle]

Jeff d.: There are a few pix and schematics in the R300 service manual -- probably not enough, and some of the crucial chips have been relabelled or otherwise disguised.

If you don't have it, both it and the service program are/were available from OzMods ( www.ozmods.com .)

If you don't have it and can't locate it, let me know and we'll find a way to get it to you.

[FreeDiver]

Macro;
Here is the link....or I hope it is, I've never linked anything to a forum before so here goes nothing.......

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=51310&item=6775979356

As for the cartridges being hollow, don't know, but I can email him to find out.....will let you know.

[Like]

Hey Freediver, At least this guy isn't trying to get rich off the shipping fee. Looks like a nice unit & please let me know if you go with it. As far as being able to reuse your original carts, yes you can with a chip resetter. If you would like more info on it, PM me. I've been refilling my carts for over 2 years & it is a pain in the butt, but having good luck with it.

[jeff d]

MV, I was thinking along the same line at one point about some sort of "wedge" that would go between the contacts on the card and the printer with a filter between that would keep the writes and reads at a constant value. I suspect this is just serial data and some little serial device (like what the DSS hackers used) could be used. But... I still know very little about how the epson communicates with the cart. I've seen some info on the web, but it's bookmarked to get to later.

Idle, I may have downloaded things from ozmods a while back. I'll go there and see if I can find the files again. There's alway been helpful info there, hate to see it go...

[FreeDiver]

Everyone;
Just got a email from the guy at Way to Print, and he stated;

It has spongeless (hollow) cartrdges. You don't want the sponge cartrigdges because the begin to break down and clog up the print head.

Okay, Micro, so since I'm ignorant on this fact, can you explain why it's bad to get hollow cartridges, and also, what do I look for in cartridges? I saw some of the prior posts, but unless you rip them open, you don't know what's inside right....and for that matter...is there any concensus on what is a good, (not necessarily the best) CIS right now? AFter all, isn't that the point of this forum? Anyone????

[macrovision]

Like, The way to disable the Epson status monitor is to open the Epson Printcd program....On the top left click file...then choose printer settings....When the menu opens choose properties...this will open the tools menu....choose the Maintenance tab....on the bottom right you'll see a tab marked "speed&progress"...click that and you'll see the menu(second item) Disable status monitor. click the box and it will be a check in it...your done!
Freediver, The average CIS sold today is fit for using in these printers....Yes you don't want the sponged carts because of the wear sponges are known to have which will clogg your print-head nozzles ( If your a diver then you know that real sponges are sea creatures) anyway... Our forum buddy, Idle has set the record straight by informing us why the carts have "chambers"... The chambers look like a maze....they help keep the ink in the cartridge main chamber(where the output is)...The fact is that moving the carts back and forth rapidly would cause the ink to swish around in the carts and there wouldn't be a constant supply of ink. So the maze of chambers and small ink-flow holes make it hard for the ink to change positions in the carts. I went to the link you posted and I can say "The CIS is worth a try".... Even though it may seem to be impossible to tell if the carts are built right...most CIS manufacturers now offer Clear carts to attract consumers...Kinda like saying "We'll show you what your getting" but I noticed the carts on that system are Gray however my experience with different systems I can state that I'm 95% sure the carts on that system are built right....And the fact that the system isn't a gravity fed system makes it that much more appealing to me...I noticed the post that they only have two of them....?....ya better get on it before I do! And last but not least...You don't have to open the carts to tell if there built right....Experience, Eyes and mind...I've seen all kinds of systems....I think that One company makes most of the carts....You'll see writing on the side "Inkjet Cartridge"... That's funny!

[Like]

macrovision, thanks for the info. My Epson 960 program is a little different than yours & does not give me that option, but I was able to uncheck some boxes that might do the trick. Do you know if these Epson printers will operate at all if the monitor program is not installed? I'm afried to try it as I sure wouldn't want to screw the printer up.
Thanks

[macrovision]

Like, Mines seem to work better without the status monitor. I have a printonadime CIS unit on my Epson R200 printer....It has auto-reset chips that are supposed to reset to 90% when the lkevels reach 10%... I've been using it heavily for the last 3 Months. I sell DVD's in my spare time and I print about 2-3 Hundred Full Color DVD's every month. Every-time the chips reset The printer would go through this heavy auto-clean cycle, Pissing me off in the process....It wastes alot of ink not to mention, Taboo....It would always seem to do this after I refill my tanks...The tanks were full now I've lost a fourth of the ink? Why bother re-filling damn-it. That's how I felt. I Figured "Why have the monitoring program tell the printer that the levels are low?" I don't know what the program tells the printer, So I disabled it! For the first time in the last three months I've seen the levels reset With-out an auto-clean(every now and again I enable the monitor to check the levels, Then I disable it again) This time I noticed levels reset but it did a medium auto-clean cycle (they're 3 cycles programmed in the firmware...Short, Medium, and of course long) I believe the auto-clean that happened this morning was a firmware order and not an order from the smart-chips..Code named Intelldge. All in a word...I'm gonna watch the resets closely because I personally believe that the status monitor talks to the printer. Epson denied this.

[Like]

macrovision, once again, thanks for the info & I will continue monitoring this thread and the JLWSales thread. Very good education here.
Mahalo!

[Idle]

Status Monitors -- what they do and don't do (just my 2c.)

Something I noticed when I first got my R310, which can print stand-alone from flash cards:

I installed the CIS and waste ink tank on the workbench and not connected to a computer and tried a few prints from the digital camera's SD cards, only to find it did a head clean before the first print every time a card was inserted or the machine turned off and on again with a card in it -- the status monitor obviously couldn't have had anything to do with this.

It wasted more than twice as much ink as it used.

Haven't tried printing from a card since the printer was connected to the computer, so don't know if it would still do that.

I can say, however, that this action doesn't happen when printing from computer (wouldn't need to!) -- the R series don't seem to do any more head cleaning than earlier models -- possibly even somewhat less.

My experience with Epson printers down the years has been that the status monitor has nothing to do with the number of head cleans the thing performs, nor does it affect the time the 'waste ink pads full' message comes up -- all that is either in the firmware, the driver program (which itself is megabytes) or both.

All the routine actions and messages will still happen whether or not the status monitor is installed.

Case in point: My other Epson inkjet is a Color 900, which came out before Windows XP, so Epson (with $'s in their eyes?) declined to produce an updated driver for it and the one built into XP is, to say the least, rudimentary.

They did, however, produce one for the Color 980 -- same printer, different firmware, and I found the new 980 driver program worked perfectly on the 900, but not so the status monitor which installed under XP but then didn't work and so was dumped.

The printer performed under XP and XP SP1 with no monitor exactly as it had under Win98SE with the working status monitor -- head cleans, cartridge changes and what-have-you didn't alter at all, the utility controls were the same and the only difference was that I no longer saw the ink levels.

Incidentally, the 980 drivers won't even install under XP SP2 -- the installer just declares the 980 printer not found and shuts down.

Micro$oft, of course, had nothing to gain from this change so it has to have been arranged by Epson, probably under the guise of an updated driver -- all it's achieved in my case is that the workshop computer remains on XP SP1.

[macrovision]

This coming from you Idle I will accept as factual however I'm using an R200. I've tricked it in the past by putting it in cartridge exchange mode....unplugging it....changing the carts.....moving the carraige back to the park position and turning it back on. As long as the levels are below 100% it won't do a clean cycle but if you change the carts while it's powered up it will do a clean cycle even if the levels are below 100%. As a matter of a fact this is what I do if I need to re-prime my current system. I've had a few resets and no clean cycles. This printer must have a ghost in it because it normally autocleans with each color reset....Maybe it's waiting for the more expensive black to reset or for me to refill the tanks. Anyhow, I still believe that it's possible for the status monitor to update the firmware write to the smart-chip but I won't be sure until I get another bulk DVD order. The black level will reset soon....Its currently 25%...Just another 15% to go and I'll see. Anyway I'm thinking about calling the local service center and seeing if I can make a friend(if ya know what I mean)after all their independant. So, Questions about how they check/change firmware in the "R" line Epsons just might get answered and If I can't get the answer maybe Ben Franklin can get it for me!