Slideshow bitrate question

[csaag]

I'm taking a series of JPG pictures taken with my 3.1 megapixel camera. I then crop them to 720x480 and use a simple AviSynth script to make an .avi file which is a simple slideshow (no transitions).

I'm then using TmpgEnc to convert the .avi file to a .m2v file; Output is then burned to a DVD for watching on a TV.

So in TmpgEnc, how high of a bitrate is good enough? Since there's no motion involved I was wondering at what point is a higher bitrate just a waste of space.
Also, for static pictures does it matter if 2 pass VBR or CBR is used?

thanks

[daamon]

Hi csaag,

You should be able to get away with a reasonably low bitrate, because of the lack of motion between frames - I have to confess I don't know what that translates to in numbers as I've never done it the way you are, but try a starting bitrate and go up or down until you get the quality you like.

I use TMPGEnc v2.5 and there's a setting in the "Quantize Matrix" tab called "No motion search for still picture part by half pixel" that, when ticked, is supposed to help with encoding stills to MPEGs.

But there are easier ways to create slideshow.m2v's from JPGs. Check out:

DVD slideshow GUI

I've not used it, but it sounds like it fits the bill perfectly, would be quicker and allow transitions and sound etc if you wanted them. I certainly intend to give it a go if / when I need to do a slideshow.

And CBR will be fine.

Hope that helps...

[csaag]

Thanks for the info.
FYI, the AviSynth script I use is only 2 lines. I simply open the script up in Vdub and 'save as .avi. and I have my input to TmpgEnc.

Very simple. I ended up going that route because the software that came with the burners I bought always had some limitation (# of pictures etc) and the freeware I tried either was buggy or did a poor job resampling the pictures. As long as I don't want transitions, this way gives me a lot of control. thanks again.

[guns1inger]

If you have the space, use all the bitrate you can, regardless of movement or lack thereof. If the slideshow is pretty mauch all there is, or there are only a few slides and space to spare, push the bitrate up to 8000 - 8500

[Cornucopia]

If you have no transitions, why not (assuming your Authoring app supports it) make a 1 VOBU user advanced still show, or (if you want audio under) a series of ~5 sec stills, or even multiple stills as menus (with or without audio)?

Saves a whole lot of space and maintains the high quality.

Scott

[csaag]

<If you have no transitions, why not (assuming your Authoring app supports it) make a 1 VOBU user advanced still show,

Forgive my semi-newbie ignorance, but I not sure what you meant.
What I'm doing is taking a bunch of jpg pictures from my son's soccer games. For each game, I take the photos, and make a .m2v file out of them - no transitions & 5 or 6 seconds per picture. I then come up with a wav file, edit it to match the length of the picture show.

I repeat this for each game. At the end of the season, I take the collection of m2v & matching wav files and use Tmpg Dvd Author to make a DVD where each game is a selectable menu item. Nice guy that I am, I hand them out to everyone. Not knowing what equipment everyone has, I use wav files to be as compatible as possible. My own old Pioneer DVD player gets stuck on homemade ac3 audio (even with ac3dix).

Obviously uncompressed audio eats up alot of space so that's why I'm trying to make the m2v files a small as possible while maintaining good quality. This year I was planning on combining the spring season & the fall season together; that's around 16 games plus tournaments at 3-4 minutes of audio/video per game; hence my concern whether I could actually fit it all in one DVD.

[Cornucopia]

Ok, I just tried it, so I know it works...

In less time than it takes for me to write this post, I was able to use Spruce DVDMaestro to create what you wanted.

Steps:
1. Start Maestro
2. Import JPG/BMP (etc) picture assets
3. Set Project preferences to Stills=5 sec.
4. Drag Each still, in correct order, onto Movie timeline (they'll snap to end of previous)
5. Import available AC3 (could also have been done w/ WAV, that's what I had lying around)
6. Drag AC3 to audio part of timeline
7. Set Connections window so FirstPlay autoruns, that's all navigation to do
8. Compile to VIDEO_TS folder
9. Burn with Nero to Pioneer 106
10. Load disc and Play w/ PowerDVD

Quality is excellent. All stills are MPEG2 720x540 I-Frames, >8000kbps, w/ 24 fps using pulldown and repeat flags to arrive at correct speed and length. Audio is cut to the length of video--I would normally make an exact length size. Aspect can be 4:3 or 16:9.
Personally, I don't see the wow factor in transitions (prob because I see them all day long), I'd much rather have high quality and (optional) user-advance interactivity.

Other apps should be able to do similarly--though not all, I just like Maestro the best! My only fault with it is lack of integrated/semiautomatic menu creation, and burner support (cuz it was stopped 4 years ago).

Scott

[csaag]

Well according to your link, that's a $5 grand product so I'll have to see if Tmpg DvdAuthor has something similiar.
Thanks for all the info.

[lenti_75]

it shouldn't matter if you use cbr or vbr, but I would use vbr, and I would stay above 4000, otherwise you will see black noise.

[daamon]

If the slideshow is pretty mauch all there is, or there are only a few slides and space to spare, push the bitrate up to 8000 - 8500

@ csaag - I shall mention the following, just in case you encounter what I did - and certainly not wanting to cast doubt on guns1inger's comment.

On a couple of occassions, I've had a whole load of JPGs that I'd dropped into Premiere v6.0 where I added audio and transitions. I then used the DV AVI from that and encoded at a high bitrate to MPEG2.

I got macroblocks in the MPEG2 in the middle of the stills, and sometimes around the transitions. I foud that this was removed by reducing the bitrate by around 500kbps. It might just be my system, but since then I've always been wary of using a really high bitrate for stills.

Granted, mine were JPG -> DV AVI -> MPEG2 so that might have had an influence. But I thought I'd mention it just in case.

[guns1inger]

It is your system. Some systems don't meet the DVD spec for bitrate. Technically, they shouldn't carry the DVD logo if they can't play high bitrate disks (so long as the bitrate is within spec)

[csaag]

Thanks but 8k won't cut it with the number of photos/audio that I have.
I did this last year & I believe I used around 5k for a bitrate and filled up the whole DVD. I anticipate having more photos/audio this year so that's why I was wondering how low I could go & still have decent quality.

I am in the process of taking the first batch of photos and encoding them with diff bitrates/settings in Tmpg and seeing how they look on the TV.

[Cornucopia]

What I'm saying is that, as the pix are MPEG Stills, they don't take up much space. A 5 second piece of video (or rendered slideshow slide) encoded to MPEG at 8000kbps will occupy 4.88MB, whereas and MPEG Still will be ~250kB. Big difference in space.
Of course you have the limit of 9801 total slides (99Chptr x 99Titles) on a disc, but that's way more than most people expect. This uses up ~2.39GB--still plenty of room for audio.

The DVD spec has the facilities for the efficient incorporation of slideshow material, it's just that many apps (or guides/ways of working) don't take advantage of that part of the spec.

Scott

[daamon]

It is your system. Some systems don't meet the DVD spec for bitrate. Technically, they shouldn't carry the DVD logo if they can't play high bitrate disks (so long as the bitrate is within spec)

It was a Toshiba SD-220e DVD player. I'd be surprised if that couldn't play high bitrates. I never had any problems with movies... Strange. Still, no matter as my parents have it now.

I am in the process of taking the first batch of photos and encoding them with diff bitrates/settings in Tmpg and seeing how they look on the TV.

Best approach - be sure to use a rewriteable DVD.

@ Cornucopia - Good point, and so true. Do you know whether the slideshow.m2v file that's output from DVD slideshow GUI is a set of MPEG stills, or is it encoded as footage?

[Cornucopia]

Haven't checked. I'll do a test in about a week (Taxes and other deadlines) and let you know.

Scott

[daamon]

...Taxes and other deadlines...

Good luck, and thanks.

[csaag]

What I'm saying is that, as the pix are MPEG Stills, they don't take up much space

Thanks, I understand. I have a copy of Ulead DVD something 3 SE that came with my burner. It has the still feature you mentioned. Problem is the quality of output was lousy, even using their highest bitrate setting.

Tmpg Dvd Author doesn't seem ot have this feature. If anyone has any recs for DVD Author packages that have this feature please note them.
(edited to add that Dvd-Lab seems to support this from searching the tools section)

Thanks again.

[Cornucopia]

Update:
DVD slideshow GUI encodes the pix as video.
Therefore, standard video encoding constraints (bitrate, GOP length, etc) apply.

Scott

[daamon]

Thanks Cornucopia.

I know that VCDEasy creates MPEG stills, but it doesn't have the facility to create a slideshow, add transitions and audio.

I wonder, do pics have to be encoded to MPEG video to create a slideshow. Thinking about it, I'm guessing it does...

Anybody?

[ronnylov]

Thanks for the info.
FYI, the AviSynth script I use is only 2 lines. I simply open the script up in Vdub and 'save as .avi. and I have my input to TmpgEnc.

Very simple. I ended up going that route because the software that came with the burners I bought always had some limitation (# of pictures etc) and the freeware I tried either was buggy or did a poor job resampling the pictures. As long as I don't want transitions, this way gives me a lot of control. thanks again.

You don't need to save it as avi. You can open the avs file directly in TMPGEnc. But you may need to add the line converttorgb24() in the end of your avisynth script when feeding it to TMPGEnc.

[Cornucopia]

[DVD spec]
You can do timed, auto-advancing stills (cuts only between), WITH seamless AUDIO underlying whole thing, and still be using MPEG stills and not video.
Once you start using Transitions/FX, then this has to be rendered as VIDEO.

[(S)VCD spec]
You can have timed, auto-advancing stills (cuts only between), with an AUDIO clip to be accompanying each still (using a known trick on the player), but if you want seamless audio under the whole thing, or if you want transitions/FX, this this will have to be rendered as VIDEO as well.

Scott