Problem with encoding 29.976 fps AVI to NTSC DVD

[DemonEyez]

First of all, I’m Dutch so excuse me for my poor English .
I’ve been doing a lot of reading but still I got the following problem/question:

I’ve got two DivX avi’s. Both are Animee (Dragonball Z) and are both 29.976 fps NTSC.
One is interlaced 29.976 and the other is non-interlaced 29.976, according to TmpgEnc Plus 2.59

What are the correct settings for these two files for encoding them to a NTSC DVD (to be played back at my DVD player on TV)

Do I need to ‘de-interlace’ and/or ‘inverse televine’ them?, or can I just feed them to TmpgEnc and use the standard NTSC template? That last option seems to be the easiest way I think.

As I understand, you need to add a 3:2 pull-down for 23.976 files to encode them at 29.976. But as my two avi’s are already 29.976 fps according to Gspot and TmpgEnc, can I just leave them be and encode them right away?

[Baldrick]

just leave them at 29.97, no 3:2 pulldown.

[sdsumike619]

as far as i know if it's 29.97fps and 720x480 frame size it should work fine, i might be wrong tho; i am still a beginner, but I do know that that is the spec for ntsc video....

[DemonEyez]

just leave them at 29.97, no 3:2 pulldown.

Thanks for the very quick response. I was getting confused because I see a lot of people prefering 23.976 with 3:2 pulldown over 29.976 (hard telecined)

[Baldrick]

check the fps with gspot also, it could be 23.976.

[DemonEyez]

I did, and it reported that both avi's are 29.976 fps. Tmpg reports at 'source' that one is interlaced and the other is non-interlaced

[DemonEyez]

A little kick. I've been encoding my two 29.976 fps avi's to a NTSC DVD with Tmpg. It succeeded succesfully.
But when I watch those DVD's I notice slight flickering of the picture.
It's only slightly, but noticeable. The overal quality of the picture is good by the way, no artifacts whatsoever and audio's match.
Is there something to be done for this flickering?

[guns1inger]

It depends on what is causing the flicker.

If you applied a sharpen filter it might have been too strong. Tone it down and encode again.

If it is fine details, you could apply a slight blur, but this will soften the entire image.

You may have encoded with the incorrect field order for the interlaced source.

[DemonEyez]

I think I discribed it wrong. By flickering I meant that the whole picture on TV flickers. Just like an PC monitor that has a low refresh rate, for example 60HZ on a PC monitor.

This only happens when I play NTSC DVD's which were encoded from 29.976 fps source avi's.
When I play NTSC DVD that are encode from 23.976 fps source avi's and have been encoded with '3:2 pulldown when playback', the picture is clear and does not 'flicker'

In my original first post I wrote the details of those two avi's.
How can it be that one file is 29.976 fps non-interlaced? Should't that always be interlaced when the framerate is 29.976?
TmpgEnc tends to keep the original setting for 'encode mode' corresponding with the source.
I noticed when the source is 29.976 non-interlaced, 'encode mode' is automatically non-interlaced and if the source was 29.976 interlaced, encode mode is automatically interlaced.
One of my source avi's was 29.976 non-interlaced. Could it be that is was automatically encoded as 29.976 non-interlaced and it results in the flickering when I play it back on my TV?

[manono]

Hi-

If the original encoder knew what he was doing (which I doubt, since he kept them at 29.97fps, rather than performing IVTC), then they're both progressive. Ignore what TMPGEnc says about them. AVIs are almost always non-interlaced.

You sure the original AVIs don't "flicker" already? The reason I ask is that the flicker may come from 2 of every 5 frames being deinterlaced. You can test by opening the AVIs in something where you can advance a frame at a time, such as VDubMod or MPC. Find a place with movement, and then advance frame by frame. If the original DVD was telecined and then deinterlaced for the AVI, 2 of 5 frames should look somewhat strange, depending on how they were deinterlaced. They may be blended, or they may have less resolution than the good clean frames. Either could produce the flicker you describe. If you could link to a portion of the source AVI, that might help.

[guns1inger]

Are you playing them back on a PAL TV ?
Is your DVD player outputting an NTSC signal to a mutli-format TV, or a psuedo_PAL (e.g. PAL60) signal to a PAL TV ?
Have you played back any other NTSC material before ?

[DemonEyez]

@ Manono
I'll look into the avi with VirtualDub as you discribed. I watched them both before and they don't seem to flicker on my PC monitor.
I'll see if I can upload a small portion of the avi tonight.

Just one question: regardless of what TmpgEnc says, should I encode both 29.976 avi's interlaced?

@ Guns1inger
Yes, I am playing those NTSC DVD's on my PAL 100Hz Widescreen TV (using my modded PS2)
I've played NTSC material before and that never gave me problems. I'm almost sure I'm doing something wrong when encoding. The NTSC DVD's I made from 23.976 fps source files don't give me any trouble, only the ones I just made with 29.976 fps source material.

[DemonEyez]

Well, did some trial and error last night and came with the following results:

When avi source is 29.976 fps interlaced and is encoded interlaced, I get no flickering whatsoever. Overall picture quality is good and no jerky playback

When avi source is 29.976 fps non-interlaced and is encoded non-interlaced, I get slight flickering. But overall picture quality is good and no jerky playback

When avi source is 29.976 fps non-interlaced and is encoded interlaced, I get slight flickering. But overall picture quality is good and no jerky playback

So it seems to be the avi's that are 29.976 fps and are non-interlaced which give me problems. I don't get flickering all the time. It is only noticeable when the picture has light colors and there isn't almost any movement in the picture.
But as the avi's in question have been downloaded it could very well be the case that the person that ripped the original DVD's didn't do his job very well.