2hr+ video - fit on 4.7GB DVD w/out using LP? (Pan E85H)

[dvd-dude]

I'm using a Panasonic DMR-E85H DVD recorder.

I have a 2 hour 12 minute video I need to have fit on a 4.7GB DVD. SP ends up being slightly too large for the disc, but I don't want to use LP because it'll look bad.

Is there a way to record at some bit rate that will allow as close to SP quality as possible but give me that extra hair of space I need? Thanks!

-DVD-Dude

[swallowtail]

Is there a way to record at some bit rate that will allow as close to SP quality as possible but give me that extra hair of space I need?

Flexible Recording (FR) is specifically designed for this purpose, so you can still get broadcast D1 resolution (704x480) beyond two hours. You should also read zorankarapancev's sticky thread if you haven't:

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=251884

[bluebridge]

Sure - you use the Flexible record (FR) mode, accessible from the Functions menu. Set the duration to 2 hours 12 minutes, set your source playing and start FR. Your recording will have the resolution of SP mode (in fact you can record over 3 hours at this res. with FR) but with a very slightly lower bitrate (you won't see the difference for the extra 12 minutes).
Just one word of caution. Assuming the E85 is like all the other Panasonics I've seen, you really should go into the "Functions|Setup|Picture(or perhaps Video)|Hybrid VBR" menu option, and set it it to FIXED (the default is Automatic). Automatic allows the resolution to drop (by factor 2) in order to retain a high bitrate. Most people are happier with a fixed resolution at the expense of the bitrate (which is what the FIXED option favours). There are several threads on this topic elsewhere on this forum that you can search for.

bluebridge

[oldfart13]

Look here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=524724

[bnbhoha]

I've read that you can put close to 2 hours and 10 minutes on SP mode. Might want to edit those two minutes and try it. I can't remember exactly, but FR would something in LP.

[oldfart13]

Didn't you read the link? In a nutshell, it says that the machines post E80/E100 (like your E85) will not switch from 704X480 until after the 2 hours and 59 minutes mark in FR mode. The newest machine ES10, may not switch until the 4 hour mark owing to the new encoder (they are awaiting confirmation from tests). So, at least as far as reslution (not bitrate) is concerned, an FR record of 2 hours and 12 minutes will be okay and remain at 704X480. Bitrates will depend on a number of factors such as the source, dark and light sequences, etc.

[Marvingj]

Even with FR you lose quality.

[bluebridge]

Even with FR you lose quality.

?????
I don't know what this means. We don't know what the quality of the original was like!
The point is that, by setting FR to a time of 2hours 12 minutes (and with hybrid VBR set to Fixed if not set to this by default) you'll get the absolutely best bitrate possible to fit the programme on the disc (and it will only be a notch down on what you would get at SP) and all at a broadcast D1 resolution of 704x480.

blubridge

[chloh]

Hi Folks

I have read this and many other threads on this FR thing several times over and still cant figure out how it's done. Here is what I want to do:

1. Dub a 180 minute movie using FR onto my HD
2. Use High Speed Dub to dub this copy onto a single DVD-R

I'd rather do this than FR directly onto the DVD in case anything happens to the recording, I want to check it first, and split the movie into scenes before dubbing.

How do I go about setting up the FR recording to HD so that the 180 min movie will fit nicely to a 4 Gb?

Help pse!

Cheers
ch

[do9999]

Hit the FRec button.... select 180 minutes ie 1.5 hours.

Or use DVD shrink

[bluebridge]

How do I go about setting up the FR recording to HD so that the 180 min movie will fit nicely to a 4 Gb?

Help pse!

Sorry about not replying sooner, but I've been away in the wilds of Shetland!

You say you want to:
1. Dub a 180 minute movie using FR onto my HD
2. Use High Speed Dub to dub this copy onto a single DVD-R

My previous posts were aimed at answering the original poster's question - about recording to a DVD disc - which is what I do all the time. So the problem you pose doesn't then arise - if the DVD disc is empty, the FR dialog shows a 'MAXIMUM rec. time' of 6 hours (equivalent to recording at EP). If the disc is partially full, the system automatically calculates the MAX time you've got left (at EP equivalent). You simply then enter the time of your recording (which must of course be less than or equal to this), and the average bitrate will be automatically set to completely fill the [rest of the] disc with your programme.

OK, now let me admit I have no direct experience with the Panasonic HDD recorders, though I did download and read the DMR EH100 manual before purchasing my DMR E50 (almost two years ago now). So I am not sure how the FR function dialog box presents itself when you opt to record to the HDisk. But see below for my suggested options.

Normally, I believe you're meant to do the inverse of your suggested 1. and 2. That is: record your 180 minute movie to the HDisk using XP (if your source is v. high quality) or SP if it's of standard commercial DVD quality. Then do your editing. THEN dub with FR to your DVD-R. The EH100 manual has the following statement:

" FR (Flexible recording):
* You can use this function in dubbing or timer recording.
* When dubbing content stored on the HDD, the picture quality is
automatically adjusted to fit on 4.7 GB DVD-RAM/R discs."

I read this last point to mean that if you set the dubbing mode to FR and then set your programme time to 3 hours 0 minutes (180 mins), the programme will be made to fit the DVD disc. I'm guessing that, by definition, this won't be a high-speed dub.

Alternatively, I'm pretty sure you can do your 1. and 2. operations just as you wanted. You just have the problem of setting the right time in the FR mode dialog. And this depends on how the dialog box works. Question: If you choose the Flex Rec function for the HD, what does the dialog box give as the MAXIMUM recording time available? If it's exactly 6 hours (or 8 hours if that's the max DVD EP recording time on your machine), then the odds are the function is set to record to the HD in 4.7 GByte equivalent chuncks (whether you like it or not). In which case, you do what you'd do to record directly to the DVD, and set your recording time to 3 hour 0 minutes. If, on the other hand, your dialog gives the MAX rec. time left on your HDisk at EP rec-mode rate (likely to be more like say 50 to 100 hours, depending on how empty your HD is), you've got some calculating to do. But it's easy. Just set an FR rec. time for your programme of (3/6) x (Max rec. time the system says is available on your HD)*. If this latter is say 64 hrs 40 mins, then set a programme time of 32 hrs 20 mins. Of course, you will then manually stop the recording after 3 hrs (when your movie finishes). The disk-space then taken up by this recording should be close to 4.7 Gbytes, so that you can dub it directly to your DVD disc. (I'm not clear whether this can be a high speed dub to DVD-R or not - there's a 'high speed dub to DVD-R' setting that has to be 'on' when making the original recording. You'll know better than I whether this works for an FR original recording.)

Hope this helps
bluebridge

* The general formula is, of course:
(time to set for your FR recording to HD) =
(your programme time)/(max recording time possible to a blank DVD)
x (max recording time possible to remaining space on HD)

[chloh]

Hi bluebridge

Thanks for your reply. As I had not received any replies earlier I rolled up my sleeves and did some experimenting and this is what I "think" is the case. It seemed to work.

The FR mode recording to HD appears, as you say, to assume that any FR recording is meant to fit into a 4 GB disc. So when it prompt us to enter the time, it is asking us for the length of the intended movie. WHy they don't just say so in plain English is a mystery to me, esp since most things on the Panny is pretty friendly. This is by far the worst.

So in my case, I set the FR time to 180 min and it gave me a FR recording that would fit into a 4GB disc. I suppose if I wanted to fit a 160 min prog into a disc I would simply type in 160 min.

Now to go back to the question as to why I am doing this - well, it is much safer to record a programme to HD then High Speed transfer it to DVD. The solution you propose earlier of recording XP to HD then FR to DVD is a double encoding job, which I have tested and it does reduce picture quality by encoding twice.

And why safer? By recording to HD first I can check the recording, and also use the Playlist to create chapters first, then burn the playlist to DVD. I saved a disc by checking the recording first, because somewhere in the middle the recording was spoilt (I was dubbing VHS to DVD) and this allowed me to redo that segment (no need to do the entire tape, as I can use playlists again to join them up).

I think that makes sense.

Cheers

[magic75]

I've read that you can put close to 2 hours and 10 minutes on SP mode.

Hmmm, my Panasonic DMR-E55 shuts down after 2hr 2mins...

[gshelley61]

I've read that you can put close to 2 hours and 10 minutes on SP mode.

Hmmm, my Panasonic DMR-E55 shuts down after 2hr 2mins...

It depends on the source material. The additional "cushion" you may get over the set recording time will vary with the specific video being encoded.

FR mode at 2 hrs 12 minutes will be virtually identical to SP 2 hr mode. The encode quality will be reduced in proportion to how much longer beyond the 2 hrs you go. There would be a noticeable encode quality difference between SP 2 hr and FR at 2 hrs 55 minutes, for example.

Just like there is a noticeable difference between FR at 1 hour 5 minutes and SP 2 hr (the much shorter FR recording will look better).