DVD recorders -- FATAL FLAWS LIST!

[jman98]

It doesn't matter. Given how this recorder is roughly 4 years old and the last company still making DVD recorders for the US and Canada (Magnavox) will abandon the marketplace sometime this year, you don't really have a lot of choices, do you?

I do not personally advise buying somebody's old recorder off Ebay or Craigslist so good luck. It may not have that much time left after years of use. Replacing the burner can be quite difficult to impossible on many recorders although if I remember correctly it wasn't too bad to replace the hard disk on Pioneer models. We had a recent post where a guy simply couldn't find a replacement burner for his DVD recorder.

[Seeker47]

This one just turned up on eBay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320846369402&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123

ISTR Orsetto identifying one of the x000 models as being a high end one that was made for the Japanese market, but I don't think it was this model. Given the vintage, this might be more like the model 510 (?), but given the "Elite" line treatment.

Still, it has gotten pretty rare to see any of the Pioneer models on eBay anymore. There was a 560 being sold from Canada a few months back, but that auction was withdrawn.

[TBoneit]

Still, it has gotten pretty rare to see any of the Pioneer models on eBay anymore. There was a 560 being sold from Canada a few months back, but that auction was withdrawn.

Why do you suppose that is? I have one that works but I put it aside in favor of the Magnavox that can tune the clear QAM cable channels.

The Pioneer is smoother and has less rough edges than the Magnavox but the Magnavox can tune Digital OTA and Cable so it wins. It is functional and the image quality from a HD channel is pretty good for being DVD resolution.

[jjeff]

That 7000 was the cat's meow when it came out, like 10 years ago now I wouldn't pay $50 for one myself.
It's a beautiful machine but I believe it only records to the impossible to find 4x DVDs and it has no HDD.
It's more or less a museum piece IMO
A little thread I started on AVS after I first saw a 7000
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1022807&highlight=dvr+7000

[orsetto]

Still, it has gotten pretty rare to see any of the Pioneer models on eBay anymore. There was a 560 being sold from Canada a few months back, but that auction was withdrawn.

Why do you suppose that is?

Its because the Magnavox, to put it politely, can't hold a candle to the final Pioneer 550 or 560 series. Yes, the 16:9 tuner in the Magnavox goes a LONG way to making it palatable, but thats about all it has going for it (aside from a durable burner and easily replaced HDD). Most of the people who bought the final Pioneers wanted them for their editing interface and overall utility as a digitizing station. The Magnavox doesn't cut it for power users: its HDD editing is about as basic as it gets, its HDD navigation is from hunger, prepping titles for DVD dubbing is ridiculously arcane. You can't choose custom thumbnails for recordings on the HDD, to help identify them and carry over to the DVD copy. Oh no, you can only choose custom thumbnails for the DVD menu AFTER you've burned the disc but BEFORE you finalize it. After forgetting this and letting it auto-finalize two or three times, I was about ready to swat flies with my Magnavox. The thing is an utter total friggin PITA to use, it fights you every step of the way (from having a crappy remote with fragile lookalike invisible buttons to an on-screen interface consisting of tiny Sumerian hieroglyphics to using an oddball file format that makes ripping finalized DVDs for further PC authoring needlessly difficult). The only reason anyone has tolerated it for the last five years is it was the only DVD/HDD game in town, the price dropped $50 lower every year, and it has about the only dependable ATSC tuner/timer of any DVD recorder. If Panasonic had simply shoved a decent ATSC tuner into its popular EH-55 or Pioneer/Sony had done it with the 560 or 780, nobody would be talking about the Magnavox today. Its already been discontinued twice before due to faltering sales numbers, this is the third (and apparently last) time.

I have one that works but I put it aside in favor of the Magnavox that can tune the clear QAM cable channels.

The Pioneer is smoother and has less rough edges than the Magnavox but the Magnavox can tune Digital OTA and Cable so it wins. It is functional and the image quality from a HD channel is pretty good for being DVD resolution.

It is this "tunes digital cable, so hell no I ain't paying for or using no damn decoder box" feature that has primarily kept a cult going for the Magnavox as the poor mans cable PVR. But this feature became rapidly moot in the past year as one cable company after another realized the FCC was toothless and would allow them to tamper with Clear-QAM, undermining it every which way from Sunday. The number of counties in USA where you can actually use the Magnavox tuner on "boxless" cable without the machine blowing a gasket every time you turn it on is rapidly dwindling. This has caused countless open box Magnavox returns to WalMart and hence the mfr, who has finally told WalMart where to stick its 60 day no-questions-asked return policy. If it still works with QAM in your neighborhood, consider yourself very lucky and cross your fingers it stays that way.

I do keep a Magnavox 2160 and 513 DVD/HDD hooked up to my Pioneer x50 and x60 recorders, to use as external ATSC tuner/timers for off-air 16:9. My neighborhood was one of the first to pull the plug on QAM, so my cable is all via decoder box in 4:3 lbx format. I do get great off-air reception of all the locals, so the Magnavox handily updates the Pioneers (since it can change its own channels, unlike the hopeless CECB tuner boxes we all thought would do the trick three years ago).

Truly appreciating the Magnavox all but requires you to have never owned another DVD/HDD recorder in your life. Taken on its own terms, and given its current $209 pricetag, it is a great value for money, esp if you get good off-air reception (its tuner provides close to HDTV quality with an antenna, thru cable QAM it isn't nearly as good but still OK). Compared to some very famous high-end DVD/HDD recorders beloved on this forum, its a paragon of reliability. Good power supply, the ATSC tuner does not interfere with its clock timer, its burner is not fazed by crappy 16x bargain media, and it has a built-in service mode allowing easy replacement of its HDD. I have recommended it to several friends and relatives, and they all love it, "can't believe how they lived without the HDD feature", etc. They happily learned to use it because they had nothing to compare it to and didn't have to "unlearn" a previous brand. It helps that almost none ever burns a DVD, they use it strictly as an HDD timeshift box and DVD player.

If you've spent years with a classic Pioneer, Panasonic, Sony, or Toshiba XS DVD/HDD, the Magnavox will seem like a throwback to the stone age. You might adapt to it, but you'll probably never love it. Unless, perhaps like TBoneit, your cable company still provides reliable Clear QAM service: a $209 320GB PVR that hooks right into your cable system will help you overlook a lot of shortcomings.

[orsetto]

I'm going to buy Pioneer DVR-530... I hope it doesn't have any flaws!! I do hope!!!

If you live in the USA/Canada, be leery of any used 531, 533 or 633 unless its very low priced (under $150). Repairs vary between "difficult" and "impossible," usually the latter. If it actually is a "530" you're looking at, its probably a multi-region version that was made for Europe/Australia. Those are a lot better because they don't have the defective TVGOS program guide that hobbled and damaged the 531, 533 and 633. The 530 machine itself is very nice, its the TVGOS on the Amerian versions that poisoned it (although many still work if properly cared for, i.e. had the TVGOS turned off permanently).

[TBoneit]

Exactly it is the 531 Pioneer and when the TVGOS worked it was great, when it worked.

I keep basic cable and so far so good. I get a lot of subchannels from the cable as well as a lot of other channels.

The Magnavox editing is as you say a lot worse than the Pioneers. However 500Gb, Tunes OTA and Clear QAM trumps easy for my main use of it. I have a dual tuner Satellite HD DVR and the Magnavox is used for local channels overflow and the subchannels. The output isn't HD but it is easily watchable.

MY brother is using the older Philips version as a Clear QAM tuner mainly. These Funai made boxes seem to be decent. With the latest model the ability to pre-title a recording from a timer greatly improves things. That the firmware for that also can be used on the 513 and I believe 2160 to add that function is a bonus which shows how little the design has changed.

When watching the recordings off of the hard drive I set it for a 30 second fwd skip and 5 second reverse skip to aid bypassing commercials.

As you say the only hdd game that was left. I'm thinking of grabbing a 513 as a spare while Walmart still has them.

Cheers

[orsetto]

Thanks for following up with which Pioneer you own, TBoneit: that would explain how you acclimated to a Magnavox more easily than owners of later Pioneers. I too have a 531 in my rack, and aside from editing its as much or more of a pain to use than my Magnavox (TVGOS must be disabled to get any reliable use of the 531, but disabling TVGOS forces you into a truly awful manual timer screen that is a frequent recordist's worst nightmare). BTW, when you mentioned owning a 531 it reminded me why your screen name seemed familiar: years ago you were an incredible resource for us other owners of the 531! The maintenance tips you posted helped me get my dead 531 going again and have kept it running the last few years (also helped me repair a few for other owners). A belated THANK YOU is overdue for your old posts!

I agree with you, updating the firmware on the Magnavox does add a number of little interface tweaks that make it more user-friendly, esp the ability to pre-title timer recordings so they appear in the HDD navigator as something intelligible. The fix that stops the video preview from auto-looping in the "delete section" edit screen alone reduced my Advil intake 200%. These improvements came standard on the final 515 model, which is now out of production, but can be added to the H2160 and 513 models via firmware update (download the file, burn a data disc in your PC with just that file, follow the instructions for loading the disc in the Magnavox and leave it to update itself for as long as it takes). WalMart website recently stocked the final batch of leftover new Magnavox 513s, anyone here who even THINKS they might need a backup DVD/HDD recorder should buy one now before they sell out. They make excellent outboard 16:9 ATSC/QAM tuners when connected to older classic recorders, too.