DVD recorders -- FATAL FLAWS LIST!

[mikej3131]

Hey LordSmurf i was wondering if you could help me out here because it seems you know alot about this stuff.
Ok i havebeen capturing SD channels from my comcast motorola dct6214 HiDef dvr to my PC(the channels that dont have 5c copy protection), using a firewire cable. Yesterday i tried to capture a 5c copy protected channel and it didnt let me.
I needed someway to record these shows that have 5c copy protection on them so i went into these forums and everybody said a dvd recorder will work.

I am now going to purchase a dvd recorder but am not familar with them at all and need some help. Ok now i read this whole thread and you and alot of others seem to think JVC is top of the line with pioneer right behind(correct me if im wrong). Now can you suggest a dvd recorder for me as i use comcast's dvr and want to copy NFL channel shows(with 5c copy protection on them). I probably wont use the dvd recorder to copy vhs tapes, just comcast cable.i also want the best quality for my recorded shows too.

Thanks to whoever wants to help

EDIT : oh yeah, and id like a recorder that has hdmi out. But if there are no good recorders with HDMI out then i will just buy a seperate dvd player with hdmi out

[oldandinthe way]

I have had neither jitter nor overheating on my 18 month old Lite-On LW5005.

However my recorder is 12" from the wall and has 24" of open space above it.

The quality of the signal from the tuner varies widely. It seems to drift as the unit is on. Perhaps this is heat related. Or perhaps a marginal signal from Comcast. I use my VCR's tuner as a result.

No problems with editing files on my pc. I use crappy media without problem. Running up to date firmware without the MV hack. Have a SIMA GoDVD between VCR and recorder because major use is transfering my old home made VHSs.

[StuR]

Hi All,
I'm new to this site as I'm tring to find the holy grail of a good trustworthy dvd recorder to copy loads of old video's.

tb33 wrote:
Lordsmurf, I've been thinking about getting a stand alone dvd recorder can you one recommend one?

JVC and Pioneer are my two top preferences.
Followed by LiteOn, Sanyo, LG and Emerson.

Lordsmurf I noticed this in an earlier post and was very suprised to see you puttin LiteOn at No.3 in the list. I've picked up that JVC are well thought of and Pioneer too but they always seem to be at the top of the price band. LiteOn are a bargain brand on the other hand and I've seriously considered the 5006 due to price, +-, Macrovision block, possiblity to extrend to 3yr warranty (particular shop).
Would you really rate this higher than say the Panasonic ES20 (ram seems Ideal for possible editing, freeview/digital tuner)
How about Samsung HR720 only - RW, but 80G HD for poss. editing.

I'm totally confussed and have waited years for prices to normalise.
Cheers

[EltonJohnBonJovi]

Pioneer
Issue: Picture drop-out from VHS sources.
How common is it? You will hear about it, but not many people ever see it. The PAL units seem to garner far more complaints that the NTSC ones. It does not seem to be an issue in the newest Pioneer units that started to surface in summer 2005.
Can it be fixed? Unknown. While it seems plausible that a firmware fix could correct it, that has yet to happen.
Will it break again? N/A.

This does not make any sense. If it's having picture drop outs it would have drop outs on everything not just vhs sources, the dvd recorder doesn't say ok there is a vcr hooked up so now I will start putting drop outs in the picture.

If i'm not getting this, please explain.

[lordsmurf]

StuR, the original post probably needs some updates. I'll see if I can get some time to do it. At any rate, LiteOn is a decent machine because of the chipset. JVC is my top choice, with Toshiba, Pioneer, LiteOn and LG as runners-up. It's more about chipset, basic features and average build quality than brand name. Most recorders fail on one or more of those criteria. For example, the machine you named (the Panasonic ES20) falls flat because it uses bad settings for anything other than SP mode. It has the high-quality LSI chipset, but other flaws seriously limit its recording quality.

EltonJohnBonJovi, you're not getting it. VHS signals have qualities that are different than other sources.

[daamon]

Hi lordsmurf,

I'm not sure if this is the kind of thing you're after - especially if you're going to update the opening post - but I figured I'd add to the thread, just in case.

I currently have an LG RH7823W and have noticed the following problem consistently occurring:

* There's a recording on DVD disc (not the HDD) in SQ mode. Not sure if other modes are affected the same way.
* This is dubbed to the HDD using the "Fast" option.
* With the copy now on the HDD, fast forwarding at 2x or higher beyond around 27 or 28 minutes into the show results in the picture freezing and not being able to fast forward. Playback is OK.

This is pretty odd given the manual claims that "Fast" dubbing is a straight digital copy - no encoding.

[EltonJohnBonJovi]

Um the Dvd recorder will only record the original drop outs of the tape. It doesn't add them.
DVD is digital is doesn't have dropouts, and Vhs is analog. I would understand it was vcr having these problems.


:P

[lordsmurf]

Um the Dvd recorder will only record the original drop outs of the tape. It doesn't add them. DVD is digital is doesn't have dropouts, and Vhs is analog. I would understand it was vcr having these problems. Duhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Well, that's just my point, you do not understand the technology. And that's fine, this site is all about learning. Remember, you asked the question, so now you're getting the answer.

VHS signals have various weaknesses, and digital technology has various special needs to cooperate with analog-to-digital conversion. Also, the input of the DVD recorder is analog, not digital, as well as the output of the recorder. Only the disc data is digital. The Pioneer recorders on the list (circa 2004-2005 machines) have a random flaw where it chokes on VHS sources. Something is not tweaked correctly, so it more than likely interprets good VHS video as noise, which trips up blank screens on modern equipment.

[lordsmurf]

I currently have an LG RH7823W and have noticed the following problem consistently occurring:
* There's a recording on DVD disc (not the HDD) in SQ mode. Not sure if other modes are affected the same way.
* This is dubbed to the HDD using the "Fast" option.
* With the copy now on the HDD, fast forwarding at 2x or higher beyond around 27 or 28 minutes into the show results in the picture freezing and not being able to fast forward. Playback is OK.

That is an issue with either the source disc or the hard drive of that particular unit. There's a lot of variables. HDD fragmentation or auto-skipping disc errors from the source would be my first 2 guesses.

[daamon]

That is an issue with either the source disc or the hard drive of that particular unit. There's a lot of variables. HDD fragmentation or auto-skipping disc errors from the source would be my first 2 guesses.

The DVD disc is a brand new LG one provided with the unit, and it occurred as part of my experimenting whilst reading the manual and the HDD (160Gb) had barely been used. In that case, I might take it back or at least see if I can test a unit in the store for the same problem.

But the thing that baffles me is why does it always occur between 27 and 28 minutes? And it happens every single time I "Fast" dub and only when I "Fast" dub. I can't help thinking it suggests something specific...

Cheers for the response.

[davideck]

the dvd recorder doesn't say ok there is a vcr hooked up so now I will start putting drop outs in the picture.

A DVD Recorder may have difficulty locking up to a VCR source because it contains timing errors and head switch dropouts that are not present in other sources. This can lead to all kinds of undesireable behavior.

A brief discussion of this is provided here;
http://www.analog.com/UploadedFiles/Application_Notes/237557357AN_850.pdf

[Drahken]

I don't know if this is across the board, or just of the dvr-06 models, but daewoo is total garbage. I went through 3 of them, and finally said to hell with this and got a sony instead. The daewoos have numerous flaws, but the most consistant one is that they randomly conk out during playback. They will suddenly stop playing and turn themselves off. This occurs with both commercial dvds and with home-recorded ones. There is no apparent pattern to it.

Other problems I've had with daewoo include:
random deletion of timer recordings- setup 8 to record, be grateful if it records 6 of them
messing up/locking the clock- this occurs when the thing pulls it's random shutdowns while you have the clock set to automatic. In addition to totally screwing up the time, it locks up all the menus so that the only way to regain control is to leave it unplugged for a few minutes until it's memory is erased (then you have to re-set all the channels, the clock, the timer recordings, etc).
completely fowled up a dvd- Don't have any idea what it did, but the disc is unplayable in any dvd player or computer.

[lonestarnot]

RCA DRC8052N locks itself if paused during recording; RCA only offers a fix for
-NB or -NC models:

MAKE SURE YOUR DVD PLAYER IS LABELED DRC8052NB or DRC8052NC, as this firmware WILL NOT WORK WITH A DRC8052N

http://www.rcaaudiovideo.com/en-US/DRC8052NFirmware

[GeoFan49]

Philips DVDR 3390:

When you ACCIDENTALLY hit the EDIT button you must go back to the beginning of TITLE ONE on the DVD, you cannot resume where you were before, even if you do NO EDITS.

[GeoFan49]

Philips DVDR 3390 (aka DVDR3390):

When you use the SPLIT TITLE function, there is a 10% chance you will destroy the DVD.

[evil_lives]

Pioneer 510H

I have loved this machine since the day I bought it(march 04).. I use it daily and it has performed very well.
The problem now is that it won't accept the 16X blanks that are out now!!!

Since I have an extended warranty untill 08. I went back to the store I bought it at thinking that they would help me out.
Well all they could say is that it wasn't their fault that the unit is obsolete...

I have e-mailed Pioneer tech support about this, and still haven't heard back. I am praying for a firmware upgrade or something...

Peace.

[Brent G.]

Pioneer 540H

It's a very nice machine with great menus and a very good remote make it pretty much idiot proof to operate. Menus to edit the video on the hard drive works well.

My main complaint with this machine is when I high speed copy the recording from the hard disk to DVD (take 15 minutes), it loses the commercial "skip ahead" and the chapter marks so I can't jump to the next chapter. So there is no means to jump ahead or back. This is a real PIA if you are recording program with commercials in them. (Ok for movies since I seldom skip through them). ARE all hard drive recorders like this?

Complaint #2. Hard drive is only 80gb and stores around 39 hours of SP video which can go by quickly if I don't burn them to DVD.

Like all Pioneer recorders, the hard disk is not repairable/replaceable by the user. If it fails out of warranty it may be cheaper to throw it out and buy a new one.

Brent

[trhouse]

I have a Pioneer 531H which has a 500 GB hdd in it. Here is how to do it,

http://www.pioneerfaq.info/english/dvr630.php?player=DVR-630H&question=replace_hdd

[gshelley61]

Pioneer 510H

I have loved this machine since the day I bought it(march 04).. I use it daily and it has performed very well.
The problem now is that it won't accept the 16X blanks that are out now!!!

Since I have an extended warranty untill 08. I went back to the store I bought it at thinking that they would help me out.
Well all they could say is that it wasn't their fault that the unit is obsolete...

I have e-mailed Pioneer tech support about this, and still haven't heard back. I am praying for a firmware upgrade or something...

Peace.

Stop purchasing 16x discs at retail stores. Buy Taiyo Yuden blanks online in bulk instead. They are the best DVD-R's available, and there are plenty of 1-8x speed compatible blanks in stock. I buy Value Line 8x discs from SuperMediaStore myself, but there are several very good online stores that carry Taiyo Yuden.

[samijubal]

Beware of those value TYs these days. I've used them for a couple of years without any problems except maybe 10 discs out of well over 2000. Now I've got one whole 100 pack + about 25-30 out of another 100 pack that are garbage and about 4 or 5 more 100 packs purchased about the same time that I haven't opened yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if they are trash too. All the bad discs have scratches in them and should have been trashed instead of being sold. I won't be buying the value discs again.

[capvid0429]

Samijubal, I am curious of where you bought the discs that you have some much trouble with.

[samijubal]

I buy them wherever they are on sale, Supermediastore, Shop4Tech. They are all the same discs, I don't think it matters what store they came from, they originated the same place. If you look around on the net, I'm not the only person that has used them for a long time without any problems until recently.

[zzyzzx]

There are new DVD recorders with built in ATSC (digital) tuners in them. And they seem ot have their own sets of problems.

Discussed in detail here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=106

The common problems include things like unacceptably long delays in changing channels, and lots of problems with displaying settings not working right (like the Samsung boxing the 4:3 signal).

[Termina]

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[24jeffg]

ive got a rca drc8052nb, when i turn it on all i get is hello, thats it nothing else, why? i cant get it off saying hello.

[Anonymous4]

12

[rgs_uk]

I have the Sumvision Dolphin DVD Recorder: inexpensive and very compatible with discs. The main flaw is that it performs some kind of pre-processing on any signal fed into it. Giving slight aliasing on sharp horizontal lines and sometimes softness on the first frame after a shot change. Not really a big issue for basic TV recording but not good for archiving anything important. I first noticed it while flipping through the channel guide and seeing the effect on the text. I also found that there is no audio on the built in TV tuner. Not sure if this is common to all or just my model. But that signal is being switched off in the UK bewteen now and 2012 anyway. Also I think it may have some kind of auto level on luminance as very occasionally I've noticed a change in brightness on VHS tapes that I was copying and which wasn't on the original. Occasionally highlights seem over bright too.

I'm interested to know whether any other models suffer from this kind of pre-processing? Two years ago I had a Toshiba which had great picture quality but messed up every other disc and, if anything, for everyday TV use, reliability is more improtant to me.

Despite all the above I would say it's good value for money and fine for TV recording.

[davidsin62]

Hi...looking for anyone who has a Panasonic HDD recorder that is DEAD that they could sell me. I know..very strange request, but I need a dead unit to use in a trade-in situation. Thanks very very much for any help or guidance!

Davidsin

[willp]

LG LRA-850
I burnt seveal movies with my computer burner program using name brand DVD disk. When I try to ply them with my LG I get a "Can't suport Format" message. Lost a few disk til I swiched to RIDATA DVD-R disk. The other's were also DVD-r disk. The Ridata played fine. What is the difference?

[kennywally]

LG LRA-850
I burnt seveal movies with my computer burner program using name brand DVD disk. When I try to ply them with my LG I get a "Can't suport Format" message. Lost a few disk til I swiched to RIDATA DVD-R disk. The other's were also DVD-r disk. The Ridata played fine. What is the difference?

it is probably due to the source formatting......that's why we need to pay attention to the mfrs reco on discs...not just what is on sale.

also our personal experiences shared with others is needed as well

thx for sharing yours