if you were terri schiavo?

[Zisguy1]

The one thing that bothers me is her husband. I think he's a scum bad that does not want to do any thing to help her. No physical therapy he said, no wheel chair to go out side. If she dies he gets one million dollars. He wants her to die.

Fwiw I've seen him on the news numerous times, and he doesn't come across to me as a nasty scumbag type of person. He does seem a bit indifferent and not as emotionally affected as you might expect, but that could be from the fact he's been dealing with this case for a long time. I don't think he's interested in the money, but just my opinion.

[AlecWest]

BTW, in case anyone is curious, click here to read Dr. Cheshire's affidavit explaining why he thinks Terri may have been misdiagnosed. Contrary to what may be thought, Cheshire originally felt Terri should be allowed to die. The affidavit explains why he changed his mind. Some terminology may be hard for lay-persons to understand.

[shelbyGT]

Yes, one doctor from a conservative/religious group, who did not direclty examine the girl, gives an ambiguous paper that relies on his feelings and emotions as evidence to grant her to continue living. Regardless of the countless other doctors that have cared for her for the last 15 years, this guy's nailed it! WITHOUT EVEN TOUCHING HER! Awesome, we need more doctors like him.

[AlecWest]

Yes, one doctor from a conservative/religious group,

...who originally felt she be allowed to die. And his decision to change his mind was based in part on discussion of the case with colleagues. He's privy to the same medical records as other physicians involved in the case. Physician's disagree. So far, he's the only one to go public suggesting any possible hope. But so far, I don't believe there's a single physician suggesting she be allowed to die. They've left those matters up to the court(s).

I'm not suggesting Dr. Cheshire is right. Never did. Just that he has a different opinion.

[lumis]

c'mon guys, lets keep this thread unlocked.. its a really touchy issue, but we can be adults about it & keep it civil.

[AlecWest]

c'mon guys, lets keep this thread unlocked.. its a really touchy issue, but we can be adults about it & keep it civil.

I agree. Besides, I suspect Judge Greer will rule against Florida taking custody ... leaving the whole matter moot. Hmmm ... wonder what's taking him so long? He promised a ruling before Noon (EST).

[shelbyGT]

I'm not saying he's the only one to change his mind. There are probably dozens of people all over the world that flip-flopped on this issue already.
I just suspect his motives at this stage in the game, that's all.

[Webster]

IThe one thing that bothers me is her husband. I think he's a scum bad that does not want to do any thing to help her. No physical therapy he said, no wheel chair to go out side. If she dies he gets one million dollars. He wants her to die.

Man, you need to get the facts (and not from the media presentation, they only give you a condense version of what is going on) before forming you opinion on the guy.....
Here is an excert from one of the link given on this tread..

Why is Michael Schiavo denying his wife care?
Three guardians ad litem, Richard Pearse, Jay Wolfson and John Pecarek, have reported on Terri Schiavo's care. (Pecarek's report is not available online; Pearse's report; Wolfson's report)
Pecarek reviewed Michael Schiavo's guardianship in 1994 when the Schindlers attempted to remove Terri from Schiavo's care. Pecarek found no reason to do so. Wolfson on Pecarek's report:
"His report, issued 1 March 1994, found no inappropriate actions and indicated that Michael had been very attentive to Theresa."
Wolfson on the guardian hearing in general:
"Proceedings concluded that there was no basis for the removal of Michael Schiavo. Further, it was determined that he had been very aggressive and attentive in the care of Theresa. His demanding concern for her well-being and meticulous care by the nursing home earned him the characterization by the administrator as 'a nursing home administrator's nightmare'. It is notable that through more than thirteen years after Theresa's collapse, she has never had a bedsore."
In 1998, Pearse confirmed that Terri Schiavo was well cared for, also mentioning that she "received regular therapy."
Doesn't Michael Schiavo have a financial interest in his wife's death?
At the time of the petition, a little over $700,000 remained in Terri Schiavo's trust. Reports from both sides vary on the amount left, but everyone agrees that the amount is minimal, most of it spent on authorized legal expenses. Michael Schiavo had no control over the trust fund. Moreover, guardians are usually close relatives, and often stand to benefit from the death of their ward. Judge Greer addressed this fact in his original decision, pointing out that the Schindlers had the same financial interest in removing him as ward, since the $700,000 would then come to them. They would be under no obligation to keep Terri alive once they had control. So either one of the parties could have been acting out of financial motives. Or, as is more likely the case, neither are.
Michael Schiavo offered to give the $700,000 to charity to assure the parents that he wasn't acting out of financial motives. The parents turned it down. He has also turned down at least one offer of $1 million to turn over guardianship to Terri Schiavo's parents (his lawyers put other offers as high as $10 million). Any suggestion that Michael Schiavo is acting out of greed seems unlikely in light of these facts. (See Abstract Appeal for another take.)

[AlecWest]

I just suspect his motives at this stage in the game, that's all.

And, your suspicions might we correct. His position could be motivated by pure fundamentalism.

Well, the judge is an hour late now. I imagine this is infuriating to the news hounds ... trying to fill dead air with "something" germane to the issue.

[lumis]

i dont think he wants to kill her, i think he wants to let her die.. which is what he has said she wanted if she was in the condition she is in now. i'm not sure why so many people demonizing michael schiavo. i he just wants to do what she told him she wanted him to do. to me it seems like the last loving thing he could do for her, and he's willing to fight now..

its pretty obvious he has no financial gain in all of this, and if he didnt care about terri he would have given her parents guardianship and washed his hands of her.. but i think he wants to keep his promise to her and is willing to go to the end of the earth for it..

if i were married and my wife made me promise to do that for her i would.. even if it meant i had to take matters in to my own hands.. which i'm surprised michael schiavo hasnt done.. i think terri's family needs counseling, because they dont seem to have a firm grasp on the reality of the situation. terri is essentially dead, only her body remains.. its kind of like people who kill or have their family members die and keep the corpse in their house for days, weeks, months, years.. they cant accept it, so they go to extremes to help them cope or deny the reality of the situation..

well, thats my take on it..

[shelbyGT]

supreme court denies parent's appeal:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/24/schiavo/index.html

[AlecWest]

Judge Greer just denied Florida's request to hear new evidence. Jeb Bush may still try something radical, ordering officials to go in and "take" custody of Terri. If he does, I suspect that would be political suicide.

[MOVIEGEEK]

I can't believe these politicians are getting worked up for Terri.This problem happens everyday in the US,you just don't hear about it.
Most likely each and everyone here will have to deal with this issue,whether for your spouse or parents.
Again I recommend everyone filling out a Living Will or Power Of Attorney.

[burnman99]

I feel they should keep her alive since her parents want it that way. However, if they are given power of attorney they (or Jeb Bush who also want's power of attorney) should be given the costs of keeping her alive. And the husband should be given all rights to divorce her without ramifications if he so chooses. It just seems morbidly ironic that a woman will most likely starve to death in a hospital.

My .02

Rog

[Webster]

I feel they should keep her alive since her parents want it that way. However, if they are given power of attorney they (or Jeb Bush who also want's power of attorney) should be given the costs of keeping her alive. And the husband should be given all rights to divorce her without ramifications if he so chooses. It just seems morbidly ironic that a woman will most likely starve to death in a hospital.

My .02

Rog

You know, the sad part is that I think all these started out because of money. Here is an exert of how it all begin............ Read it and draw your own conclusion....

[AlecWest]

You know, the sad part is that I think all these started out because of money.

One thing is for certain. Mr. Schiavo is no longer in the Schindler's will.

[Webster]

You know, the sad part is that I think all these started out because of money.

One thing is for certain. Mr. Schiavo is no longer in the Schindler's will.

And it all started because he didn't want to split the 300 grands evenly with his inlaws....
The question is, did the Schindler started to fight for custody because of the 150 grands which Mr. Schiavo didn't share with them????? something to ponder about.........
Now let say that he did shared the money (which was his from the settlement). would we know about his wife Terri today???

edit: having trouble uploading image....

[lordsmurf]

I'm actually kind of proud that the VH members have been able to keep this thread relatively politics-free.

Nice.

[Webster]

I'm actually kind of proud that the VH members have been able to keep this thread relatively politics-free.

Nice.

well this is sort of semi-political.............

[lumis]

You know, the sad part is that I think all these started out because of money. Here is an exert of how it all begin............ Read it and draw your own conclusion....

what is the source of those exerts? do you have the complete document(s)?

[CoffeeGuy]

<----- I agree Webster. That's how I got this mark, bringing up something semi.

[offline]

CoffeeGuy,

Lordsmurf carded you for a post about government
taxes - that is political, not SEMI political!

This current topic is a human life story with political
and religious overtones. So long as these "overtones"
are kept down, this thread will be allowed to continue
as the subject, in itself, is not a political one per sae.

[CoffeeGuy]

Actually, not even semi. But I will respect the rules of the forum. As for the question at hand. I say a man/woman has the right to take his own life. But nobody else should decide. Be it spouse or relative.

[offline]

I agree coffeeguy, but in some cases a guardian needs to be appointed.

I have been watching this saga with disquiet and disgust. Disquiet at the "life as a vegetable is not worth living" group and disgust at the religious and political interference.

The only matter should be a legal question of who is
her guardian. Her guardian should then be allowed to
decide whatever he/she thinks is in her best interest.

If her guardian's decision is brought into question (as in this case) then the only act the courts should consider is appointing a forensic psychiatrist to determine her state of mind on this issue prior to the brain damage. Simply put, would she or would she not want to be terminated if she knew she was going to be in this position?

Once determined then there should be no further
scope for legal or religious interference.

It is about time that outside opinions be kept away
from what are deeply private and personal matters.

[vitualis]

@ AlecWest:

Thanks for providing Dr Cheshire's report. It was quite interesting.

I, however, somewhat disagree with some of his conclusions. As he stated himself, it is very easy for someone to see apparently purposeful movements and behaviour in someone like Terri. Our brains are basically wired that way. It is why we anthropomorphisise behaviours of babies, animals, and even natural phenomenon like the weather.

Functional MRI may be of benefit but it has its disadvantages as well. It comes down to how much we really know of the brain (unfortunately, not too much). It is clear that Terri has severe damage to her cerebral cortex. If on fMRI some remaining parts of her cerebral cortex lights up to stimuli, what does it actually mean? More than likely not much except for confusing the picture. For example, parts of Terri's auditory cortex in her temporal lobes may well still be functional so it will light up to sounds. But if her executive functions (where sound and language is understood in a meaningful manner) no longer functions, it doesn't mean anything. In PC lingo, its like having the microphone and soundcard working okay but the CPU is gone and harddrive has crashed.

The part of Terri's behaviour that is missing is consistency. If she were aware then you would expect that there would be some sort of consistency in her behaviour to stimuli. That she would behaviour suggestively at some times and not a little bit later tells me that we/Dr Cheshire is seeing only what he wants to see (IMHO anyway).

The sad thing about this whole affair is that I think that most people who are involved in the case are probably acting in what they think to be Terri's best interests -- it's just that they can't agree on what that is. I'm somewhat disgusted by the third party movements (e.g., the pro-lifers and Congress) who I feel are simply furthering their own agendas through this unfortunately situation.

Regards.

[CoffeeGuy]

IMO, a guardian is one who looks after another's best interest. Not one, who's opinion of the other's best interest, might be. It's not like you're putting down a family pet. Even that is tough to do for some. But people and animals are not to be treated the same. Life is a precious thing. Not to just the healthy. I imagine a lot of people would think the life of someone like Hellen Keller, wouldn't be worth livin'. I'm not comparing Keller to Schiavo. The only thing I know about death is, that people I once loved and cared for, I will no longer see. I do know about life. Cause I am living it. Only Terri Schiavo and her maker, knows if her life is worth living. No body else.

[vitualis]

Yes, only Terri and her maker know if her life is worth living. Unfortunately, neither are doing much talking.

We still have to live in the pragmatic world.

Regards.

[offline]

CoffeeGuy as vitualis points out, we have
to be practical - guardianship is the next best thing.

My private and personal view (which I refuse to enforce
on anybody but myself) follows Thomas More's Utopia. I would want to be quickly euthanaised if I was in Mrs Schiavo's situation.

I also do not hold what I believe to be a distorted view about animals versus humans. Putting a loved family pet "down" can be just as serious for those that loved that animal. We are all animals.

This is my belief.

[CoffeeGuy]

I am only stating my opinion. And an opinion cant be wrong. Yours, mine, anyone's.

Yes, only Terri and her maker know if her life is worth living. Unfortunately, neither are doing much talking.

Terri Schiavo's not talking, true. But she's still breathing. If she's breathing, she's still living. She may be thinking, please, put me out of my misery. Or, please, don't kill me. I'm not ready to die. Well Terri, your guardian has decided, you should die, because that's what he would want if he were in your position. If you have any objection, please speak up.

I guess I could ask my dog if she wanted to die. If she doesn't answer, I get to decide. Seeing as I am the dog's guardian.

[offline]

@ CoffeeGuy

I fail to understand the analogy. A legal guardian can't act like that. There are legal and medical
failsafes.

Don't you understand that someone has to make a
decision. With the absence of communication from
Mrs Schiavo, it is up to close family to decide. If
the family disagrees then what better than a
court determined guardianship. I'm not suggesting
that its the perfect way, but it's a hell of a lot better
than what is happening now.