$2.04 per gallon

[AlecWest]

Not an answer to my question, but it does show something:

http://www.biodiesel.org/pdf_files/Production%20Capacity_2004.pdf

Current production capacity is 150m gallons/year with additional capacity of around 200m gallons/year.

That's 350m gallons/year - just over a gallon for every man, woman and child in the US per year.

Production will have to go up 100x for it to be viable.

Actually, that PDF was referring to "quick" implementation ... saying it could be increased from 150m gallons/year to 450m gallons/year in less than 12 months with current facilities. That doesn't reflect the total capacity of the American farmer by a long shot ... and implementation might speed up if the demand increased and more facilities came online. It also says that, besides the current 20 companies online, an additional 20 new companies are planning similar projects. If demand increased substantially, other companies with larger more efficient facilities could come online quickly as well. It all depends on demand ... and "cheaper" is always in demand (grin).

The beauty of biodiesel is that no conversion is necessary. And, biodiesel can be mixed in with regular diesel. The $1.79 per-gallon price is based on current output, also. Prices would go down if it turned into a mass-produced commodity. Oil-sheiks are always arguing among themselves. Farmers, on the other hand, learned the value of "co-ops" a long time ago.

[AlecWest]

P.S. One other point. As mentioned, biodiesel can be mixed with regular diesel. Currently, in the UK, the scenario is taking hold:

http://www.biodieselfillingstations.co.uk/alloutlets.htm

Note the "percentage" of mixture. The more biodiesel becomes available, the greater the percentage can be ... causing prices to go down (not up) during the transition process. The US is a bit larger than the UK so our current filling stations are further apart (except in the Midwest farm belt):

http://www.biodiesel.org/buyingbiodiesel/distributors/default.shtm

But, for everything there is a first step.

One added advantage, too. As the production of soybeans goes up, the price of soy sauce should go down (grin).

The downside to all this is, cheap though it may be, biodiesel is still a hydrocarbon-based fuel. Pollution won't get any worse but it won't get any better. Still, the smog will smell better, hehe.

[HatchetMan]

That's why I drive a new Hyundai Elantra
I put on nearly 100 miles/day.

[reboot]

$0.919/litre here. Supposedly going up too.
Driving an Explorer, and it's the better part of $100 to fill it. Lasts a week if I'm lucky

[rhegedus]

[MackemX]

WAHAY, a free £1 bet

cheers Rob 8)

p.s. £1 a litre, you gotta be kidding me!. It would be cheaper to drive to the US and fill up and drive back!

[Roundabout]

Oh, for the good old days of $0.25/gal. gasoline

The whole time I was growing up, I never saw it above $.26/gal. until around the early 70's. Then the "oil embargo" happened and the prices shot up to $.45/gal. overnight.

There used to be "gas wars" in the USA where prices would come down as stations competed for your business. They used to spend a fortune on advertising on TV to get you to come there:

"Put a tiger in your tank" (ESSO, IIRC?)

"Come to the Chevron Island, south of the Standard sign,
Fill 'er up with Chevron gasoline, the 'young ho' kind..."

(the 'young ho' was a spoof of 'gung ho', not "ho's" in today's slang )

I'm sure there were many more I don't remember off the top of my head.

Now they don't need to advertise, there's not enough competition to warrant it, although ARCO here in SoCal advertises a bit.

I think the problem with biodiesel would be that, when the very real threat would come from it, the oil cartels will lower their prices to below what it takes to produce the biodiesel, until interest wanes. In a lot of ways, if the price stays high for a long period of time, it might be a good thing in the long run, if it spurs innovation. Meanwhile, we're in for some time of pain from ever higher prices.

As of yesterday, in my area, the lowest price is $2.21/gal., but most stations are a bit higher than that. I filled up and try to eliminate trips by combining multiple things into one trip. Other than that, not much else you can do, since you can't store any quantity of gasoline for future use, unlike many other items.

[MOVIEGEEK]

I paid $2.21US a gallon yesterday,I don't feel so bad looking at rhegedus' fuel bill.
I think hydrogen is wave of the future:renewable and clean burning(water and heat is the only waste).

[Solarjetman]

Dang rhegedus! That is more than my flight club pays for avgas for the airplanes!!!! Its $3.10USD/gal. But the total bill is still higher as those puppies burn 10 gallons an hour.

[Zisguy1]

It's finally happened. We've reached the point where a renewable resource is now cheaper than the non-renewable resource. I anticipate that, over the next few years, we'll see an increase in popularity of owning diesel vehicles ... not burning normal diesel fuels, but burning biodiesel.

The current price for biodiesel (using a lot of soybean or vegetable oils) is $1.79 per gallon US. And to make a go of it on a large scale, we only need to convince farmers to switch to soybean production.

Prob with this is that all modern farming is heavily dependent on petroleum products, i.e. oil. If the price of oil continues to rise, biodiesel will also become unfeasible.

I think hydrogen is wave of the future:renewable and clean burning(water and heat is the only waste).

Hydrogen requires more energy to produce than it provides. It's also extremely dangerous to transport. IMO, it too is ultimately unfeasible.

[rhegedus]

I think hydrogen is wave of the future:renewable and clean burning(water and heat is the only waste).

Hydrogen requires more energy to produce than it provides. It's also extremely dangerous to transport. IMO, it too is ultimately unfeasible.

Hydrogen could be produced by electrolysis, with the electricity coming from nuclear power stations - even the greens have switched tack and see nuclear power as a way forward.

Is hydrogen any more dangerous to transport than any other flammable liquefied gas?

[MOVIEGEEK]

Hydrogen could be produced by electrolysis, with the electricity coming from nuclear power stations - even the greens have switched tack and see nuclear power as a way forward.

Is hydrogen any more dangerous to transport than any other flammable liquefied gas?

Exactly.
I learned how to do electrolysis in the seventh grade with a lantern battery,two pieces of copper wire and salt water.

[ViRaL1]

Somewhere online you can buy a kit to allow your car to run on recycled cooking oil. :P

[rhegedus]

If it is diesel.

[lumis]

/stone mode on

what about a car that ran on air? y'know like oxygen and the other stuff in there air?

you'd never need to fill up, because the "gas" would be all around.

/stoner mode off

[Xylob the Destroyer]

I buy gas at Safeway now because they offer a $0.03 per gallon discount when you use your Safeway card....
this morning I had to go fill the tank on the commuter, I paid $1.969 per gallon (with discount) for the cheap stuff -- mid-grade is $2.069 per gallon (with discount).
Even without the discount, Safeway BY FAR has the cheapest gas around here, usually about 7 to 15 cents per gallon cheaper.
I didn't even want to look at what premium was...
My weekend/summer ride is still garaged, but because of all the modifications to the engine, I have no choice but to use premium in it -- this is gonna be either one ******* expensive summer, or one slow/boring summer.....

[AlecWest]

Prob with this is that all modern farming is heavily dependent on petroleum products, i.e. oil.

Not anymore. Take a look at that map I posted a link to above. The Midwest farm-belt is heavily clustered with biodiesel retailers already ... and farmers are using biodiesel. Lubricating oil is a minor expense when compared to fuel.

[AlecWest]

Is hydrogen any more dangerous to transport than any other flammable liquefied gas?

No. It's a myth perpetrated by the oil industry. Visit the National Hydrogen Association website for the particulars:

http://www.hydrogenassociation.org

And be sure to click on the "Hindenburg" video link to see what was really to blame for the zeppelin disaster. Hint - a hydrogen fire is colorless. Note the bright red flames around the Hindenburg.

[lumis]

i just paid $2.10 ($2.0999 actually) per gallon.. goddamn these prices suck.. i remember just a few years ago gas fluctuated 8 cents below & above a dollar.. but now that [edit] is in office gas prices are way up..

it reminds me of that simpsons episode:

Apu: Where is that gun-toting lowlife when you need one?
Snake: Sorry, I was in the can.

[jackal70058]

Gas prices have never been so high here before. Its never been $2 per gallon for regular before. Before the gas prices rocketed, they use to be around $0.75 for regular. But there dosen't seem any hope of that ever again.

[lumis]

its not like people are going to stop buying gas.. its almost a necessity.. the gas/oil companies arent going to significantly lower their prices (back to what we consider normal).. everyone should start buying hybrid cars so we dont buy as much gas.. and maybe that will spur automobile manufacturers in to creating cars that dont run on gas.. maybe something that is plentiful and cheap.. but then i'm sure "they" will find a way to raise the prices on that.. but atleast the oil companies would get a kick in the face.

[offline]

Somewhere online you can buy a kit to allow your car to run on recycled cooking oil. :P

Yeah.. but have you ever been stuck behind one of those cars?
Stinks like a over ripe fish'n'chip shop!

BTW it's a $1.20 a litre in Melb tonight

[AlecWest]

Somewhere online you can buy a kit to allow your car to run on recycled cooking oil. :P

Yeah.. but have you ever been stuck behind one of those cars?
Stinks like a over ripe fish'n'chip shop!

That's why they should switch from recycled cooking oil to soybean oil. That way, it'll be like being stuck behind a Chinese restaurant (grin). Gasoline fumes don't make people any hungrier than over-ripe fish'n'chips. But the soybean oil smell might make people patronize Chinese restaurants more often (grin). Or it might have the reverse effect. After smelling soybean oil day after day after day, it might send people to their nearest fish'n'chips restaurant.

[Zisguy1]

Hydrogen could be produced by electrolysis, with the electricity coming from nuclear power stations - even the greens have switched tack and see nuclear power as a way forward.

Eegads... good for the greens I guess, but nuclear is just... whack, in my opinion. At least in its current state. Maybe some drastic improvements could change things.

[AlecWest]

Eegads... good for the greens I guess, but nuclear is just... whack, in my opinion. At least in its current state. Maybe some drastic improvements could change things.

This isn't political ... really (grin). But, though I can't stand the guy, I do support one plank in the platform of perennial Presidential candidate, Lyndon LaRouche. He believes we should fund an Apollo-style crash program to find out once and for all if fusion power is feasible. I'm not talking about "cold" fusion or other kinds of "woo-woo" negative energy power. I'm talking about the kind of fusion power being studied at M.I.T. (and many other places) using magnetic and inertial confinement scenarios.

http://www.psfc.mit.edu

If fusion power was sustainable, it could revolutionize power distribution in the world ... making electricity so cheap it wouldn't have to be metered. The problem? No funding ... even though many scientists in the field of plasma physics are convinced it's viable. It's like they said in the film, "The Right Stuff" ... "No bucks ... no Buck Rogers."

Another field of underfunded energy research involves the creation of solar power collectors in low-Earth orbit, collecting direct sunlight, converting it to electricity, and "microwaving" it back to an Earth collection station.

http://members.nova.org/~sol/station/sps.htm

But again ... "No bucks ... no Buck Rogers."

(tiny political comment warning) We really need a science-friendly administration.

[Devanshu]

Here in indy, prices vary from 2.19-2.65/gallon. I got gas from the new sams club gas station that opened up cuz they give you a discount if you're a member. I just used my dads card for a 1.94/gallon. Oh how I miss the days when gas was .99/gallson.

[northcat_8]

$2.12 - 2.25 here in Ohio.

Fullsized SUV 32 gallon tank, 16 miles a gallon...this is not going to work...time to get something fuel efficient.

[MOVIEGEEK]

To all of those who think the price of gasoline/petrol is linked to Halliburton,politicians or companies...you are wrong.
The reason the price fluctuates and we are at an all time high is because the stupid stock brokers speculating on crude oil.

[northcat_8]

<Homer Simpson voice>

Stupid stock brokers

[Faustus]

$2.12 - 2.25 here in Ohio.

Fullsized SUV 32 gallon tank, 16 miles a gallon...this is not going to work...time to get something fuel efficient.

VW Golf with TDI. Thats what I'd get if I was looking at new cars.

* The TDI-PD is a diesel engine. Models equipped with this engine are not available for purchase in California, New York, Vermont, Maine and Massachussetts.
** 38 mpg city/46 mpg highway (5 speed manual) & 33 mpg city/44 mpg highway (5 speed automatic). EPA fuel mileage estimate. Your mileage may vary.