Plextor ConvertX for Mac

[yonidass]

Has anyone tried one of these units? I've searched all over the net and have yet to find a serious review of the Mac version. Considering it seems to do just about everything the EyeTV 200 does –using the EyeTV software but for about half the price– I'm surprised there isn't more buzz about it. Another post mentioned the Miglia unit coming out later this month with similar options but is still priced closer to EyeTV.

I'd love to hear from anyone who has one. A few of the issues I was wondering about:

-Can recordings made in MPEG-4 be edited as MPEG-4 with the EyeTv software?

-How does DV to MPEG-2 conversion from a camcorder work quality wise?

Info can be found here: http://www.plextor.com/english/products/TV402UMac.htm

[sjk]

ConvertX is a USB 2.0 device. EyeTV 200 uses FireWire, which many people (including me) consider an advantage.

Since ConvertX uses EyeTV software which can edit EyeTV 200 MPEG-4 recordings I'd think it would also edit ConvertX MPEG-4 recordings. I'm not sure if iMovie 5 will without exporting them.

[yonidass]

Good to know that MPEG-4 recording can be edited directly with EyeTV. Are those recodings then immediately viewable in QT Pro or VLC? How is the quality?

Interestingly, the Plextor unit's hardware is capable of recording both standard MPEG-4 and DivX, but since it's using the EyeTV software, it's limited to MPEG-4. Maybe future software upgrades will allow this.

With EyeTV, isn't there something like an avi export? Does that completely re-encode or is it just saving it with a new wrapper?

Regarding USB 2 vs Firewire, I too would opt for the latter. But are there any real problems with USB 2? That's why I'd love to hear from someone who actually has one of these.

[sjk]

Good to know that MPEG-4 recording can be edited directly with EyeTV. Are those recodings then immediately viewable in QT Pro or VLC?

VLC can play them directly. QuickTime [Pro] and QT-compatible apps require 1) they be exported first and, 2) a special support component. Here's an excerpt from the EyeTV 1.7 README file:

EyeTV 200, Plextor ConvertX: MPEG-4 Hardware Encoding

EyeTV 1.7 enables MPEG-4 hardware encoding with EyeTV 200 and the Plextor ConvertX.

MPEG-4 is a more advanced encoding format than MPEG-2, which enables higher picture quality at the same video bit rate, or lower disk space usage at the same picture quality. However, MPEG-4 content must be re-encoded to make DVDs or Video CDs, which can be time-consuming.

The Device Preferences for EyeTV 200 and the Plextor ConvertX now contain three pre-defined MPEG-4 quality settings:

MPEG-4 Long Play: 484 MB per hour. Video: 352x240 (NTSC), 352x288 (PAL)
MPEG-4 Standard: 940 MB per hour. Video: 720x480 (NTSC), 720x576 (PAL)
MPEG-4 Best: 1.4 GB per hour. Video: 720x480 (NTSC), 720x576 (PAL)

In addition to these preset quality settings, the full range of MPEG-4 capture settings is available in the Custom Settings dialog. For best playback compatibility and performance, EyeTV uses its own AVI file format for exporting MPEG-4 recordings. To export to this format, choose “MPEG-4 AVI” in the export dialog box. For playback in QuickTime Player, EyeTV 1.7 installs a special EyeTV MPEG Support Component into the /Library/QuickTime folder when it is first opened.

How is the quality?

I'm not well qualified (yet) to answer that since I've only recorded with MPEG-4 a few times, mostly to*make sure it worked. I think it'll be good enough for what I'm planning ...

Up to now I've preferred MPEG-2 recordings because they're easy to burn to DVD for playback in my living room. After I have streaming audio/video set up (hopefully soon!) then I'll probably switch to MPEG-4 for recordings I only want to stream and keep using MPEG-2 for recordings I want to burn as DVD video. Unfortunately EyeTV still doesn't support per-recording format selection so it has to be changed manually before recording. That may not be too much hassle since I want to use streaming playback a lot more often than DVD playback.

Interestingly, the Plextor unit's hardware is capable of recording both standard MPEG-4 and DivX, but since it's using the EyeTV software, it's limited to MPEG-4. Maybe future software upgrades will allow this.

Well, Elgato recently "unlocked" MPEG-4 encoding with an EyeTV firmware update so maybe they'll do the same with DivX, to keep pace with ConvertX hardware. I thought it was a bit unusual for Plextor to announce a product using EyeTV software had more capabilities than Elgato's comparable product, but I won't speculate more about that here.

EyeTV 1.7 software added "DivX AVI" format in its export menu, which requires the DivX QuickTime component. That's too slow and impractical for me, even if I had a reason to use DivX format.

Does ConvertX really do hardware DivX encoding? I read somewhere that it uses the same chip as EyeTV but haven't investigated further.

With EyeTV, isn't there something like an avi export? Does that completely re-encode or is it just saving it with a new wrapper?

Damn, just lost a chunk of my reply so I'll just succinctly say:

MPEG-4 AVI export is fast ("re-wraps"); DivX AVI export is is slow (re-encodes). I'm still learning the technical details for a more accurate explanation.

egarding USB 2 vs Firewire, I too would opt for the latter. But are there any real problems with USB 2? That's why I'd love to hear from someone who actually has one of these.

I'm drawing a blank right now about why FW is preferable to USB. Yep, it would be nice hearing from ConvertX, EyeTV Wonder, and Miglia EvolutionTV (soon) users.

[yonidass]

Thanks for all the info. And, yes, Plextor's hardware supports DivX encoding according to their site's FAQ, so maybe future EyeTV sortware versions will support this. And with Miglia coming out with the first DivX recordable unit, perhaps they'll see fit to upgrade their own unit as well. I've inquired about this with both Plextor and EyeTV and will post any response I get here.

Actually, DivX per se is not that big of an issue. I just want good quality MPEG-4. Since DivX or Xvid files tend to look better I would hope for that, but if EyeTV's MPEG-4 look good, that should be fine.

[sjk]

Thanks for all the info.

Any time.

And, yes, Plextor's hardware supports DivX encoding according to their site's FAQ, so maybe future EyeTV sortware versions will support this.

Ahh, there's useful info... thanks.

System Profiler is vague about the hardware:

eyetv 200:

  Manufacturer:	3180
  Model:	eyetv 200
  Unit Spec Id:	41005
  Speed:	400 Mb/sec Speed
  Unit Software Version:	10001

Who's "3180"?

And with Miglia coming out with the first DivX recordable unit, perhaps they'll see fit to upgrade their own unit as well.

Pretty easy to positively speculate about that happening.

I've inquired about this with both Plextor and EyeTV and will post any response I get here.

Sure, if you're not NDA'd.

<opinionated rambling>
In the interest of trust and respecting private communication I ask when there's doubt about sharing certain information publicly. I have the impression people sometimes share information simply because they can share it, without concern for whether or not it's appropriate (in context). Maybe they've never had the experience of telling someone something privately that's carelessly and thoughtlessly openly revealed later (at least before it's intended to be). I certainly don't like oversecretiveness but sometimes a little self-restraint shows maturity.
</opinionated rambling>

Anyway ...

Actually, DivX per se is not that big of an issue. I just want good quality MPEG-4. Since DivX or Xvid files tend to look better I would hope for that, but if EyeTV's MPEG-4 look good, that should be fine.

The factors I consider are quality, enccoding/transcoding speed, size, player compatibility, and cost. Have I missed any?

This discussion has inspired me to learn more about EyeTV's MPEG-4 AVI format. Here's what the Unix file command (v4.13) says about an exported recording:

RIFF (little-endian) data, AVI, 720 x 480, 29.97 fps, video: DivX 5, audio: (stereo, 48000 Hz)

"video: DivX 5" being the interesting part(!) So far I've tested Mac QuickTime playback with different QT components enabled/disabled and a file with/without its resource fork. With the DivX 5 component active and no resource fork, QT plays a file in a 720x480 window. That seems best since any other working combinations all use a 640x480 window. The EyeTV MPEG Support component only works when a file has its resource fork. 3ivx without DivX scrambles the video. Some combinations only play the video. QT displays a compatibility warning unless it finds a DivX 5, 3ivx, or EyeTV MPEG Support component. Etc. The difference the resource fork can make is still unpredictable to me; everything else seems pretty clear.

I'll try playback on my barely-used PC later. I don't have a DivX-compatible DVD player, which would be another useful test.

Seems EyeTV (et.al.) can record DivX 5 video right now (EyeTV 200 has three settings), but they're still using a "generic" MPEG-4 AVI name for it... maybe because it's not "Official DivX Certified" yet? Plextor's ConvertX PX-M402U for Windows already is certified.

Whew. I guess that's some progress but that's all the time I can put into it right now.

[Case]

Finding "video: DivX 5" means finding a fourcc code "dx50" in the avi, which only suggests compatibilty with that codec. It may have little to do with being certified. You could put anything in there. E.g. the MPEG-4 libavc by ffmpeg uses a 'divx' fourcc, but the relation is only one way: your utility would identify it as 'DivX 4'.

[chikanakan]

Well, I don't think Miglia is Divx Certified so EyeTV is going to give the same thing. Plextor is Divx certified, but Miglia doesn't have the $$$ to get certified. In the end, they all do the same thing, it's just a matter of who pays the big bucks for to Divx for the cool logo.

[dcsos]

On the FIRE WIRE VERSUS USB 2 matter
from experimentation thay've discovered
1. Firewire is better for VIDEO CAPTURE and DVD BURNING than USB2
because if you have other peripherals on the USB hub thay can affect the
bandwith and speed of your USB connection.
2. If you have a dedicated PORT for each peripheral (no HUBS or DAISY CHAINING) then you probably don't have the above problem and can use either.

[sjk]

Finding "video: DivX 5" means finding a fourcc code "dx50" in the avi, which only suggests compatibilty with that codec.

I noticed dx50 in the Format field of QT info window at one point during my testing.

It may have little to do with being certified. You could put anything in there. E.g. the MPEG-4 libavc by ffmpeg uses a 'divx' fourcc, but the relation is only one way: your utility would identify it as 'DivX 4'.

Thanks for the explanation. I've barely learned anything about fourCC codes (yet).

I'm still curious why Elgato (and Plextor, for the Mac model ConvertX) aren't claiming DivX support, but Miglia is for the upcoming EvolutionTV. So I wondered if the certification (or lack of it) might be causing some ambiguity between product capabilities and what's claimed. Like, "we won't officially claim DivX support unless we're certified", or somesuch.

I guess what ultimately matters is whether or not a format/codec is usable in ways we want it to be, e.g. if a DivX player handles EyeTV MPEG-4 AVI files then who cares what they're called other than for accuracy's sake to reduce misinformation and confusion.

[sjk]

dcsos: That's my basic understanding of FW vs. USB issues. The topic seems particularly relevant to choosing devices for the Mac mini because of its limited number of ports. The questions I posed (elsewhere) were:

Would it be better dedicating one of its two USB ports to a USB PVR instead of sharing its single FW port with other FW devices (and maybe that's part of the target market for the newer USB PVR products)? Or dedicate the FW port to a PVR and use, say, a USB external HD? Or is it safe chaining a FW EyeTV 200 with FW HDs? Supposedly using a FW HD and DVD burner that way isn't such a good idea.

Either way, you're left with one USB port that's usable with a hub and compatible devices.

[NightWing]

Going to sound strange but was abble to capture from a FW device hooked up to the Mini. Through iMovie. And dump it to a PC on my network running xp with a 200gb hd formated at NTFS. I should state the computer I was dumping to is fast...

There is no converison just raw data flowing.

There are net drive boxes comming and may be out that will at least handle 3.5MB per seconds. Would need something a bit faster but would be a option proabbly for the near future.

[yonidass]

Here are a few points provided by Elgato's technical support:

EyeTV doesn't capture in DivX. It exports to DivX.

EyeTV 200 can capture in MPEG-4. It can edit that MPEG-4.

EyeTV 200 and the ConvertX both support MPEG-1, MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 encoding, at up to 720 by 480 resolution.

EyeTV 200 comes with a remote; the ConvertX does not.

EyeTV 200 doesn't need a power adapter; the ConvertX requires one.

EyeTV 200 arguably uses slightly higher quality components (tuner, compression chip) so discriminating users might notice a difference.

The ConvertX cannot use CBR encoding, while EyeTV can. Some users prefer CBR (constant bitrate).

[chikanakan]

On the Divx stuff, just because it's not Certified doesn't mean it's not Divx. Plextor has the cash to pay for the nice logo. I'm sure smaller companies can't. Miglia says the support Divx, but they don't say they are certified or use any of the logos. That could bring a lawsuit. Divx is MPEG-4. There are only so many chipsets that do this, and you can figure if one is certified and another is not, the one that is not just doesn't want to pay the money, yet they are the same thing.

[kiwi]

DivX encoding for Mac Plextor ConvertX in March?

http://www.insanely-great.com/news.php?id=4016

Posted by Plextor Dirk on 02/02/05 2:27 PM

There was an update to the Elgato software (ver 1.7) which added MPEG-4 support hardware encoding for the Plextor ConvertX PVR for the Mac. The hardware always supported it and with the free software upgrade, users can take full advantage of it. Next on the list is support for DivX and IR blasters. Hopefully in March...[/quote]

[sjk]

EyeTV doesn't capture in DivX. It exports to DivX.

Divx is MPEG-4.

Is it accurate describing DivX as a video format that uses the AVI media file format for storage with the MPEG-4-based DivX codec?

VLC info shows an unexported EyeTV MPEG-4 recording as mp4v video. Exporting the recording from EyeTV as MPEG Elementary Streams (which is fast) creates an AVI file for the video. Info for that file appears as MPEG-4 or DivX encoded depending on which apps/codes are used. Exporting the MPEG-4 as MPEG-4 AVI (which is fast) creates a muxed version (program stream?) with the same video encoding. Exporting as MPEG-4 or DivX AVI are slow because they re-encode, and undesirable anyway. I don't think the latter is what Elgato's tech support meant by "It exports to DivX", yonidass.

So, does anyone know what Plextor means by "support for DivX" since it's already there via fast exporting starting with EyeTV 1.7? How would the hardware encording of an unexported "DivX capture" differ from the current MPEG-4 encoding (while retaining its ability to be edited)? (I may post this to IGM later; thanks for that link, kiwi).

Maybe it's related to what you said about Miglia claiming DivX support without saying they're certified or using the logos and possibly causing a lawsuit, chikanakan? That's a variation of what I originally questioned may be why Elgato and Plextor aren't officially claiming DivX support yet (even though it's available with a simple MPEG-4 AVI export) -- they want to avoid legal trouble. Seems the MPEG-4 hardware encoding (which is much closer to DivX than any native QuickTime-compatible MPEG-4 encoding) is currently how they're handling that issue.

Hope that makes sense. I didn't know I'd end up wanting to understand and eventually explain (without overspeculation) some technical and legal/certification aspects of DivX support for these products when I first started posting here.

[yonidass]

Finally, someone who actually has the Plextor unit has posted a review:

www.xlr8yourmac.com

[NightWing]

The old line was " What we need is a good 5 cent cigar!"

Or in other words a cheep input device. FW or USB 2.O that encoded "IN" the box proabbly mpeg 4 or a decent mpeg 2. But proabbly mpeg 4.

The one thing getting me on reviews is not having at least a 8 seconds test video you could look at and compare.


Was toying with this as somthing to purchase. Since it could do both Mac and PC. After being in a thread somewhere else on the ATI USB wonder box that pumps raw down and CPU convert. But that takes a 2xG4 box to do MPEG2 DVD level!

Am realising that the MAC/PC version even though have the same hardware are vastly difference on software when you think they should not be. The only exception are the DV converter boxes. No drivers are usualy needed. But quality is pretty poor at times.

The only other option is a DVR { Go Pioneer 220! } and rip the disk. Use the Apple mpeg2 plug in and pump it into iMovie or iDVD.

[kiwi]

EyeTV version 1.8 for Mac OS X now supports DivX hardware encoding with the Plextor ConvertX!

http://www.elgato.com/index.php?file=support_updates_eyetv&PHPSESSID=b26312e7a00979808...de734136595c27

There are 7 DivX presets from "handheld" to "home theater". Unfortunately though, I can't see a DivX option under Custom settings (to customize bit rate etc). Only MPEG 1, 2 and 4.