Pioneer DVR-220S - my first attempts and experience.

[vhelp]

** Pioneer DVR-220S dvd recorder unit **

** success story / or not **

(note, this topic, subject to change)

Below is my breif experience with the Pioneer DVR-220S unit (from Wal-Mart)
The price had gone down ( rollback ) down to $198 (tatal $213)

-----

** may not recommended for PC use (dvd recorder to PC)
** But, if you're going to be playing it on your 220S only, or dvd player
** (depending on player, mine does not work w/ these 220S disks), then, that
** would be ok too, but that's it. !!

.
.

From my experience all day with it, I have YET to get a single
dvd-rw disk to play in my pc. Bar none. I did a quick test to see if
a -rw would play in my AD-1500 player, but the disk did not play.. (but
there remains a missing glitch, on my part - later)

When I first turn on the unit, and load in a blank dvd-rw
(brand new) it goes through a Initialization process. Damn.
It takes forever - (2 minutes or more) to complete.
(seems you have to do this for every disk and/or every new
recording) Those of us, who do lots of re-recording will hate
this routine of re-initializing a disk. In my iLO, all I do is
ERASE the disk (I do it twice, for good reason) and all it takes
is 8 seconds or less.. (though, second time is faster)
.
There is also a 20 minute minimum for Finalization. The manual
states that it could take an hour to Finalize (-R disks) depending
upon how full it is, and/or how many chapters you have.
.
Setting up chapters/titles is a mess. Very combersom. You have to
scroll to 'letters' to select. And, revising is a bit of a pain.
Anyways.

* Then, you're greated by a screen that basically says its ready.
* I press REC to recard something (anything)
* I press STOP when I'm finished.
* It WRITES junk to the disk
* Greated by basic Ready prompt.
* I EJECT the disk
* I pop in my dvd-rw disk inside my PC.
* PROBLEMS!! locks up my pc, to no avail. I have to reboot
... every time. All day long, I put up with this nonsense,
... but have yet to get it to read a disk in *any* of my dvd-rom
... drives.
* Put it back into my 220s, and it reads it fine, and plays the
... recording perfectly.
* EJECT it, and pop back into my (rebooted) PC, and my sys locks up
... again. Does a buch of spin-ups and spin downs, all day long.

This is the termoil I spent throughout the day, since this morning
with this unit. Two non-working units. Not worth it. The iLO
is a 1,2,3 process. Fluid every time.

If I'm missing something, its not in the manuals, cause I've read it
cover to cover, and pretty much tried everything I could think of
to get my pc to read a dvd-rw disk. Nothing.

In addition, none of the disk (-RW) 's will play at all in my
Apex AD-1500 plyer. The player just says, "disk error" and does
nothing.
.
Also, its more confusing/criptic to setup and use. You do have to
go through menus in every instance, to do something.., every time.
.
And, whenever you hit the EJECT button, it has to WRITE something
to the disk, which is another slow up to the process. And when you're
in a hurry to do your projects, this is nothing more than a hindering
or crutch. (I don't know if the picture quality is all that worth it,
after all)

So, it may be for some, that it works, and for others like myself,
it won't work. So, heed the worning. Purchase at your own risk.

I honestly don't know what I'm missing here, but Mine is going back
tomorrow, unless I can figure out that missing puzzle piece
Otherwise, I highly recommend you get the iLO DVDR04 unit instead,
and have ZERO issue with it, even in dvd recorder -to- pc. ZERO
issues. So far, the iLO wins hand's down. Until then

I will post back more PROS/CONS experience when I get the chance.
Right now, I'm just setting up this thread in a hurry.

Here are some items that may be of interest:

* 01 - OS: ------------- Windows 98 gold
* 02 - DVD R/RW: ---- OPTORITE DVD RW DD0201
* 03 - DVD-ROM: ----- Pioneer DVD-114 (purchased in 2001 and still kicking)
* 04 - DVD PLAYER: -- Apex AD-1500 (hacked firmware for MV freeness)
* 05 - DVD PLAYER: -- Apex AD-500

Thank all,
-vhelp 3175

[sync]

It takes forever - (2 minutes or more) to complete.

2 minutes = forever

I have YET to get a single dvd-rw disk to play in my pc.

I do this all the time with no problems

There is also a 20 minute minimum for Finalization.

This usually takes me two minutes. gshelley mentioned that it takes a lot longer if you are finalizing short titles and I recall noticing that.

You have to scroll to 'letters' to select.

It's a lot faster if you use the number keys on the remote

There may be something wrong with your machine with the DVD-RW not reading in your PC or player. But don't go telliing people they shouldn't buy this machine. Most people are very satisfied with it. I bought an orange the other day that was bad. I don't go around telling people not to buy oranges.

[vhelp]

I finally made my first headway - success w/ my ad-1500 dvd player.

Below, are the steps I took (for the record) and how I was able to
succeed so far

SCENARIO A - GOAL: Apex AD-1500 dvd player & -RW disks
.
SA_00 - DVD-RW disk ------------- ( Memorex brand, green box, 5pk from staples )
SA_01 - format disk to ---------- ( Video Mode )
SA_02 - record from dvd player -- ( 20 min recording of 'The Matrix' dvd movie )
SA_03 - finalize disk ----------- ( approx time 1:10 for line SA_02)
SA_04 - pop disk inside AD-1500 - ( disk load; clicks; no disk; clicks )
.
.
SCENARIO B - GOAL: Apex AD-1500 dvd player & -RW disks
SB_01 - same as above SA_00 through SA_03
SB_02 - pop in disc, after 'disk loading' shows, press PLAY btn = SUCCESS!!

In Scenario A, those disks that come off the Pioneer 220S unit, and are popped
inside the Apex AD-1500 dvd player, and are allowed to load the normal way, will
not load, issue you a 'no disk' error message, and will not play.
.
In Scenario B however, the disk do play in the AD-1500 player, but only if you
used a little trick, and press the play button as soon as the 'DISC LOADING'
message appeareS on your tv set.

Now, I have to see if this same disk will play inside my PC.

-vhelp 3177

[sync]

Were you using VR mode before???

[vhelp]

Success #2

I was finally able to read my disk (formated in 'Video Mode')
inside my pc (Optorite DD0201) drive.

But.., fwiw, I found that I think I may be needing a new ribbin cable.
I found that sometimes, either one; or the other; or both the drives
do not get recignized, and they don't know up in Device Manager or Explorer
.
So, I think that most of my trouble ( ) were due to this, and I
just never cought it, till now. As I speak, my 2nd dvd-rom drive is nowheres
to be found. Only my Optorite is showing. And, because I think I did
things correctly this time around, I met up w/ success.
.
But, as far as the Apex AD-1500 dvd player goes, and 'video mode', I can't
see how people would resort to the little trick I layed out - ongoing.
I did have a menu set, in this test, but because of the trick, and the
slight issue w/ the AD-1500 player, it did not show, but only started playing
the video.
.
I will have to try the VR mode on this (again) but correctly, and Finalize
it to be playable on my AD-1500 and Optorite player/drives.

Those that are getting away with the 'not having to go that Finalization route'
are lucky. You may have a setup the is forgiving, and allows you to pop in
a fresh disk, straight from 'recorder to player' w/ out finalizing.
.
In my given setup, I do. So, its a hit or miss for each person's rig.

>> Were you using VR mode before???

Yes.

This time, I used 'Video Mode' instead. I think that it was
quicker to: Initialize; and Finalize; the disk.


Boy, do I have a lot of work to do. More testing, etc.

-vhelp 3178

[Koleman]

I have used 5 types of DVD-R media in my 220s,

TDK Printable : TTG02

Generic White Top: Yi Jhan 001

NexxTech : CMC MAG. AE1

Maxell : MXL RG03

Unifino : UTJR001001

With my PC burner, I got alot of coasters with the Yi Jhan's, but the 220s has yet to make a coaster (50 discs assorted between the list, scanned with Nero CD-Speed)

And each one has worked flawlessly in my PC.

And suprisingly, each one played in my Xbox, which is my most picky DVD Player.

IMO, using DVD-RW seems like a bit of a waste of time with DVD Recorders, with the price of blank DVDs so cheap, all the hassel (for you) just doesn't seem worth it.

[vhelp]

IMO, using DVD-RW seems like a bit of a waste of time with DVD Recorders, with the price of blank DVDs so cheap, all the hassel (for you) just doesn't seem worth it.

Yeah, but under certain cercumstances, -RW 's is the way to go. Mostly when you
just want to record over, and over and over. Other times, it comes in handy
when you have to perform many tests. The many tests out-way the low price.
And many of my tests, are short 1 minute'ers, here or there.

I just have to realize, that with my DVR-220S, i have to do a little house
cleaning first, prior to exporting OUT of the unit for futher processing.
.
I was lucky, or coensidense at best, the my first dvd recorder (an iLO) was
flawless, and quick. And, I have no issues w/ VR mode recordings. And, I
can pop them in my AD-1500 and Optorite without any issues.

So, it's a matter of RIG'matics ...

Given my pc setup:

* iLO DVDR04 = GOOD rig
* Pioneer DVR-220S = Bad rig. Very bad rig.

(bugz, if you're reading, I'm sure you'll meet up w/ better success than I)

Plus, I can't wait to use my new tool w the iLO and Pioneer as the test'eez

-vhelp 3179

[Koleman]

I disagree that the 220s is a "bad rig", unless you are refering to your personal unit, but the product line itself is great, which I believe the majority of people here will agree.

[NightWing]

I am assuming vhelp you have not compared the picture and sound quality between the two yet.

The poor DVDR04 is collecting dust after I got a 220S. Only uses it when the 220s is busy.

I use video mode over Vr. Fill up the disk then finalize either the R or the RW. Usualy use R since I use the mind set of keeping the raw copy around and make a final copy. Rip using DVDDcriptor.

The loose timer, audio level-mono sound, garabage tv tunner and over bright picture has limited my use of the R04.

[tdweis]

I tried to find the owner's manual at the Pioneer website but they don't have it listed. Quick questions:

1. Does the 220s have a cable box controller / IR blaster?
2. Does it have flexible recording (i.e., the ability to custom-fill a disc so as to max out the recording quality)?
3. Is it relatively east to edit out commercials on the machine, or am I better served recording to the -RWs, editing on the PC & re-burning to
a -R disc?

At Wal-Mart's new price, this unit looks like a cost-effective way to do what I want it for, which is VHS-to-DVD transfer & basic DVD recording functions. Any thoughts, & answers to the above questions would be appreciated.

[NightWing]

Here is a place for the manual. Actualy its the euro site.

The manual cover sthe 320 & 220 since the only difference is the firewire connector.

http://www.service.pioneer-eur.com/peeservice/RegistrInstrMan.nsf/(CountDownloadinInstructionManuals3)?openagent&ID= F9573FD2E2A8C444C1256EA800416BAF&Attachment=VRB133 5_DVR-220.pdf

Its a slow connection so will take a few minutes
The manual wll answer most of your questions. No IR blaster I dont think. Search for 320S not 220S. has a record on signal feature.

Would recomend ripping it to your HD. Then you have a full set of tools. Makes thing easer. But you can do editing. Just not as easy.

[vhelp]

Given my pc setup:

* iLO DVDR04 = GOOD rig
* Pioneer DVR-220S = Bad rig. Very bad rig.

@ Koleman,

you missunderstood. I ment, that my system setup is *not* a good rig

The iLO and Pioneer are good units.

@ NightWing

I use video mode over Vr. Fill up the disk then finalize either the R
or the RW. Usualy use R since I use the mind set of keeping the raw copy around
and make a final copy. Rip using DVDDcriptor.

Dido. I think that either people have cross-crossed their VR vs. Video Mode
or, their particular *rig* is tuned to VR mode vs. Video Mode.
.
But, I found that for me, and the 220S, that the Video Mode, is THE ROUTE to
use over the VR mode. VR mode (for my rig) is poor performance, when I take
it out of the unit and try and use it in anything else (ie, AD-1500 and Optorite
drives)
But put it inside Video Mode, and all is perfect, and fast. Even reading it
in my pc (Optorite rom-drive) is fast and furious. jumping to scenes minutes
or hours long, is instant (almost) and a pleasure over the iLO's performance.

I do have one beaf w/ your image you posted, I'm not getting mine to match.
I use 'The Matrix' dvd movie on it, (in opening scene, where Trinity is about
to nabbed by the coppers, and she raises her hand in the air)
.
I use the default IRE of 7.5 but it was too dark. (that movie *is* dark, in
any case)
.
When I switched the IRE to a 0 (zero) it was almost spot on. I said, almost.
I did notice a difference. Now, I don't have the app you used to stitch the
images together, but using my tool, I was able to do it in no time. Anyways.
But I'm not sure if I was suppose to set something else up. I'll try with the
AGC next, and see the results.
.
Maybe you could post your 220S settings:

* Home Menu/Video~Audio adjust/Video Adjust/Detailed settings/..
.
I'll try and post that scene shortly. I hope you have that movie, and you
try it. I got a huntch, that the last piece of the IRE puzzle is the dvd
player. If your image matches fluidly, and mine does not, then that is the
last piece of the puzzle (I think) w/ respect to IRE
So if you have it, please let me know, and see if you can give that scene
a test run for me. Thanks.

I wish Wal-Mart had the 320 unit, cause I really would like a Firewire option
as well. The more features, the better.

@ tdweis

2. Does it have flexible recording (i.e., the ability to custom-fill a disc
so as to max out the recording quality)?

Yes, it does I found this out this morning.

* Home Menu/Initial setup/Recording/Optimized Rec/.. and turn [x] On

From there, you can adjust in minutes. Also, if you did one clip, and room
left, it will adjust, and show you what's left, and you can fine-tune the
bitrate (give's you the bitrate you set) etc.

3. Is it relatively east to edit out commercials on the machine, or am
I better served recording to the -RWs, editing on the PC & re-burning to a -R disc?

This will depend. Your milage will vary. VR mode is the recommended mode,
but its really only if you are doing everything on the unit, and only to
be used by the unit. If however, by chance, your given rig/system will read
the VR mode formated disk, then you will have your answer. Otherwise, it's
best (I recommend) to setup your disks for 'Video Mode' format. You can read
my notes above, if you want more understanding.

@ NightWing

You're right. It is a nice machine. It really is. I just had to re-adjust
to a new and different model. The 'Video Mode' I agree, is faster/better..
or did I say that. Anyways. Thanks again.

-vhelp 3181

[gshelley61]

The VR format recordings are almost never compatible with standalone DVD players, and sometimes certain computer setups will have a little trouble with them... the VR recordings I made with the Panny E50 I used to have were buggy sometimes on my PC.

Anyway, your best bet is to record in DVD-Video format and finalize. You will run into less problems that way, and you can be sure your MPEG2 is DVD compliant. Some recorders use non-standard resolutions like 480x480 for the longer recording time settings in VR format... not DVD compliant!

[NightWing]

Yep better to use Video over VR.

And some recorder like the DVDR04 will stick a 2 hour to a four hour. Both with different resolution. IE its a mess to split!

[vhelp]

Ok. Here is my first example image capture demonstation of my Pioneer DVR-220S
picture quality performance.

The movie is "The Matrix" on dvd.

The 220S had to be nudged up 4 scanlines, to meet w/ the 'orig dvd vob' version.
Also, the 220S scews/crops the image a little from the left and right edges by
some 4 to 6 pixels or so. But I did not compsensate for this in the pic below.
Some features I need to incoporate soon are, nudge; crop; and resize w/in bounds.

EDITED - 3.6.05.0345pm - by vhelp (image got corrupted during/transfer or something)



-vhelp 3183

[TheUnknownComic]

I've had the Pioneer DVR-220 for several months. I got it after extreme problems with two Sanyo units. The Pioneer has constantly turned out good discs. I mostly use Memorex -RW discs but have also used Imation -RW. Between those two, I'd suggest Memorex because the Imations will not allow time chase.

If I'm recording something I want to keep, I do it in video mode rather than VR. That way I can read them on my PC and copy them to -R discs.

Finalization never seems to take more than about a minute. I don't think loading a disc seems to take all that long, either. No more than a minute, I'd say. And that might just be when I'm putting in an unfinalized disc.

Initializing a disc is quick, too. No more than a minute.

Unlike some recorders, you do NOT have to turn it off for the timer to work. Also, lots of recording settings. Several menu themes to choose from for your final disc, too.

One downside, no firewire input (but a higher model does have it).

The Pioneer is very reliable. The discs can be read by a PC. Anyone experiencing problems is probably recording in VR mode. If you can't play your discs on other players, again, the problem is probably due to VR.

[NiteLite]

When everyone talks of editing out commercials, I assume there is NO pause feature as like with a VCR. So you cant be recording a TV show and when it goes to commercial hit the pause and resume after show starts again after commercials? Is this correct? I have read and never found this mentioned...leading me to think, no pause feature. Thanks for a confirmation.
NL

[sync]

When everyone talks of editing out commercials, I assume there is NO pause feature as like with a VCR. So you cant be recording a TV show and when it goes to commercial hit the pause and resume after show starts again after commercials? Is this correct? I have read and never found this mentioned...leading me to think, no pause feature. Thanks for a confirmation.
NL

I've never used it but I'm pretty sure you can do that.

[gshelley61]

DVD recorders can pause and restart while recording, just like a VCR.

[NiteLite]

sync & gshelley61...
Thank you for clearing that up for me. I've never seen a standalone out of the box. I guess the editing is more accurate using editing programs than maybe missing that first second or two after commercial break.
I may try this model at this price. Sure would like to have a HD but this may be a good beginner machine.
Thanks again for the replies and the thread.
NL

[Guitarman]

I've got the DVR-420H (same as 220 w/ HDD). The only real reason for using VR mode on this recorder is if you want to do the chase play. Chase Play is not available in Video mode. Video mode also give you much quicker initializing and finalizing, about 1min each and compatability with other DVD players and the PC.

The editing on the 220/420 is frame accurate. It also allows deleting marked sections out of the recording without splitting or dividing the recording (edit: 220 on VR mode disc, 420 on HDD or VR mode disc). Great for removing commercials.

This is one great recorder and for the $198.00 WalMart price, you can't beat it.

[sync]

I've got the DVR-420H (same as 220 w/ HDD). The only real reason for using VR mode on this recorder is if you want to do the chase play. Chase Play is not available in Video mode. Video mode also give you much quicker initializing and finalizing, about 1min each and compatability with other DVD players and the PC.

The editing on the 220/420 is frame accurate. It also allows deleting marked sections out of the recording without splitting or dividing the recording. Great for removing commercials.

Your post seems to imply that you can edit on the 220 in Video mode. That's not the case.

[Guitarman]

Sync,

My bad. You are right. The disc needs to be VR mode for the "Erase Section" option. It's on the DVR-420 that you can use this feature on the HDD and then copy to a Video formatted disc.

[vhelp]

I am sure glad you you have one (220 or whatever)
I took my instruction booklet to work w/ me today, and read cover
to cover (almost) and I found some interesting things. Anyways.

I thought you *could* edit (that is) erase in Video Mode
I was sure I did this once. At least you can un-initialize when
you need to. There are times when you might want to use this feature.

Macrovision ...

@ Guitarman

Are you bay any chance working on a MV hack for this mode ??

Anyways.

One thing I am hoping for (soon) is the hack for the MV on this unit.
Seems, the ADVC-100 is no longer FW to MV. (that's firewall)
I was toying around with my Apex AD-500 player (an oldy) and it had
immediately stopped (w/ warning message of copy-protection) recording.
Actually, while the digit is incrementing, when CP is detected, it just
hangs there until something clean comes in. (Maybe there is some use
for this glitch after all.., as I was able to unplug the source and
replug in another, my AD-1500 .. MV'free, player and recording continued
thereafter - strange but true)
.
So, it seems that the ADVC-100 is no longer impervious to MV for
dvd recorders (at least my Pioneer brand)
But, not so for my iLO. It continued recording w/ my ADVC-100 set
.
However, w/ a little more experimenting, I found a workaround for my
AD-500 player (I wanted to test its lighter source quality (I think it
is IRE 0 level, though it looks more gray'ish)
What I did was hook up s-video like this:

my AD-500 -> SIMA CED-CM -> DVR-220S

and everything was fine. Actually, I think that the CED boosted the
color's richness level a little. It did look sort of boosted, but not
a lot.. just barely noticable.
.
In any event, I never throw away *any* device I buy, cause you never know
when you'll end up needing them - for anything.

-vhelp 3199

[sync]

Seems, the ADVC-100 is no longer FW to MV. (that's firewall)

It never was. You can set it to ignore MV but it doesn't remove it. If you use it with a capturing program you're ok because they don't usually object to MV. But if you use it with a DVD recorder then it will object to the MV.

[vhelp]

Yes. But using the method I stated a moment ago as a work-around
will :P

my AD-500 -> SIMA CED-CM -> DVR-220S

I have three Apex brands. An old AD-500 and 2 AD-1500 (one is MV'ess,
while the other 1500 one was not compatible with the MV hack)
I know there is a hack (or two) for the AD-500 model, but it's an old
model, and I have 'closeted' the AD-500 since, expecpt I wanted to use
it with some tests because of it's different source output quality.
(It's not the same as the AD-1500 model)
.
And, the above method to eliviate the MV was necessary. Actually, it
was a quick thought that came to mind, and I had all the tools in front
of me. Only took 30 seconds to conjore up. Anyways.

-vhelp 3202

[jermo1948]

Vhelp:

You said you have a Apex-1500 w/Hacked software, I also have a 1500, how do I hack it for MV Free?

[budz]

Vhelp:

You said you have a Apex-1500 w/Hacked software, I also have a 1500, how do I hack it for MV Free?

go to this site for the APEX 1500 hack.
http://www.nerd-out.com/darrenk/1500/1500_firmware.htm

you need to follow the instructions carefully. good luck.

BTW I received my 220-S a day early! YaY! I'll post my experience with it once I set it up.

[4johnny]

I don't own a pioneer recorder yet and i an new to dvd recording. I was wondering what limitations there are in recordnig to dvds?

looks like it is possible to record tv shows...
but can I record HBO shows and movies?
can I record from a vcr unit or dvd player attached to the pioneer recorder?

just like to know whats possible and legal before I buy this unit.

thanks for any advice.

[Frobozz]

No problem with recording TV shows. HBO is fine too unless it has copy-once protection on a program in which case there are limits to how you record with the Pioneer.

This is from the Pioneer manual:
"You cannot record copy-protected video using this recorder. Copy-protected video includes DVD-Video discs and some satellite broadcasts. If copy-protected material is encountered during a recording, recording will pause automatically and an error message will be displayed on screen.

"Video that is 'copy-once only' can only be recorded on the HDD or a DVD-RW disc in VR mode."

By the way, if you record 'copy-once only' video to the HDD you can still copy it from the HDD to a VR-mode DVD-RW. This copy-once thing also goes by CPRM.

You cannot record a Macrovision protected VHS tape nor basically any commercial video DVD (nearly all have copy protection).