I returned the Pioneer tonight. They did plug it in to see what the problem was. The tray wouldn't open so the lady ran the receipt through the register and refunded my bank account. I did find out they usually don't sell the Pioneers at this Walmart. They were shipped from another store. I think it was either a display or a returned unit.
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Well, I bit the bullet and bought one from Walmart today. I checked out 3 Walmarts and all the units each had appeared to be returns (and they all had only 2 or 3 units left). I also checked 3 Best Buys (they are selling it for $195), but they only appeared to have returns also (and only 1 or 2 units left).
I haven't plugged it in yet to check it out. Will probably do so tomorrow after buying some -RW disks. Wish me luck.
Originally Posted by BrainStorm69
- John "FulciLives" Coleman"The eyes are the first thing that you have to destroy ... because they have seen too many bad things" - Lucio Fulci
EXPLORE THE FILMS OF LUCIO FULCI - THE MAESTRO OF GORE
Finding a new 220 is a problem. I would buy from Walmart as the return policy is much better than Best Buy if needed. Problem is after checking two Walmarts, I found 6 of these units, all made in April 04 (first run of the model at that time I suspect), and all opened. No extra disount for open box either. New models are probably coming in the next 6-8 weeks, so current stock is probably final stock. So, no thanks.
I may buy that new Panny ES10 at the same price after all.
One time my local Target had only opened Pannys too. People think they copy dvds, but don't, so they return them.
I say again -- just order it, as I did. Mine will be here tomorrow. You can return it to any store, if necessary.
How about a Pioneer with a HD?
Well, so far so good - i.e., it isn't DOA. Seems to work just fine, but more extensive testing will, of course, be necessary.
DOA.., (not Damaged On Arrival) is a good thing, indeed
fwiw.., below are just my notes and theories, and I would ask that you
consider them as some grain to chew on ...
For your video capture output quality, your mileage will vary, depending
on which DVD player (DVDP) you use with this unit. Some DVDP's will be
light, while others will be dark, and some even too dark. But I think
that most will be light.
I do believe (so far, based on my research) that most DVDP's will mostly
be lighter in color range (ie, 16-235 color range) .. I believ it has something
to do with the color range, and not so much as the IRE, as was (or still is)
being beleived.., unless.. IRE and Color Range are both the same thing.
Example.., given the above statement (theory) of mine..
IRE 7.5 = 0-255 color range
IRE 0 = 16-235 color range
So far, no one has debated this (to my knowledge) so, I may be the first
to bring it up here. However, it's just like Capture cards. IRE range
settigns is sort of hidden to most users, and is under the values of NTSC_J
and NTSC_M color settings.. where:
NTSC_M = IRE 7.5 = 0-255 color range
NTSC_J = IRE 0 = 16-235 color range
It is also my belief (though theory at this time) that if one user
captures (lets use dvd recorder units (DVDRU) here, as captures) with a
given DVDP, that should there final DVDRU output be light (or sort of
washed out looking) that it's probably safe to 'assume' that their captured
video has probably gone through a color range convergence during the hardware
mariage (connection) and the equation used in these unit setups are finalized
at 16-235 color range.
I'm glad that things are working out (positive) so far :P
From the Video Workstation of,
Well, to the extent I use it with a DVD player, the player will be a Sony DVP-NS575P. The Sony has conrols for setting the IRE - at least that's what I think they are, although not labeled as such.
I did some recording of Van Helsing last night, with the Sony set at what I believe to be IRE 0 and the recording turned out a little dark compared to a capture with my AverMedia DVD EZMaker.
Here are a couple of comparison shots at 10 mbps -
AverMedia DVD EZMaker
AverMedia DVD EZMaker
Re: vhelp post
Ah! It was April 1st! By way of Google, it will probably find it's way into at least one term paper.
@vhelp - reread your post. I think I misunderstood you the first time. You are talking about what player I use to play the DVD I created with the DVR-220-S, not what DVD player I use as an input. My bad.
For a player, I may use be using a Panasonic, or a Zenith, or the Sony. Maybe I'll have to play on each and see what it looks like. The only one that doesn't have controls that can probably compensate for light/dark picture is the Zenith. It's a DVD/VCR combo and fairly old.
with your AverMedia DVD EZmaker capture card, can you do another set
Capture (the last pic) in two passes.
Pass A - capture w/ NTSC_M (should be IRE 7.5/0-255 color range)
Pass B - capture w/ NTSC_J (should be IRE 0/16-235 color range)
(would'ov ben nice if you 'time-code'ed' your pics, so others can
follow w/out searching the full two hours worth for those two scenes)
For the NTSC_M/J setttings.., I believe it's under the video/format
or video/source (probably under Source) in 1st TAB. If you switch to
the other TAB, you'll probably see some Color gliders to adjust colors,
etc. But, leave those alone, cause we want defaults, and no user
intervention to cause taint
I'm trying to work on a formula to use, with these units that have
the IRE user-configurable features, such as the 220-S unit.
Last, I wanted to mention, that it's my opinion (based on yet, another
set of theories) that (and this is new) that every 'brand' dvd player
(DVDP) incorporates their own color space conversation routine,
or formula. This may (or should) explaine the slight color shift
differences in various brand DVDP's. In orther words..
Say you have DVDP-A and DVDP-B both brand "Pioneer". The color formula
used will be the same. But in DVDP-C, who's brand is "Panasonic"
will have a slightely different color formula.
And, even though the IRE would be the same (ie, IRE 7.5) based on my
theory, that these brands use different color space formulas, that
would and most certainly explain the slight color difference.. for
any device capture scenario.
The color formula I'm refering to, is the one they use to decompress
and output across the s-video. To add to the screw-of-things.., you
have to blaim both units (the Source, and the recorder) thus far,
because each may use a different color space formula.
fwiw.., I was shoping around for that dvd movie you posted pics of,
but no stores seem to have any more. So, I ended up getting the
Anyways. Much thanks,
Thanks for the suggestion about using VirtualDubMod for frame capture on a different thread. It worked very well. It opened both .vro and .vob files with no problems. The captures were far cleaner than the ones with Sonic CinePlayer 2.01.
Originally Posted by vhelp
BTW...I have the Incredibles DVD
If virtualVCR (vVCR) doesn't work out, then try avi_io instead.
I recall vVCR locking into the one setting. What you have to do
is, when you set it, accept it, Save Settings, and closeout.
When you reopen vVCR, it will keep it. But, I had trouble with
this trick too. I think (if memory calls) I bumped down a version
or up. I forget. And, it finally worked. The version I have
that works, is:
--> (App) - (Capture) - VirtualVCR-v2.3.3.zip
--> There is also a v2.6.9 but like I said, if memory serve me
All I do know, if that one of them locks to one param.
I've used vVCR many of times, and is a great WDM capture app for
a Winfast TV2000 XP capture card.
Well, my DVR-220-S seems to suffer from the VHS jitter problem that some have complained about. It also seems to have a problem with certain (although not all) scene transitions. So unless I can figure out a fix short of a stand-alone TBC, it will be going back to WalMart.
hmmmmm.....i've done vhs tapes but have no jitter problems.....i even use a cheapo sony vhs machine...but i guess it would also depend on how good/bad the source (vhs tape) is......i have a advc-100 which i use occassionally now since i got the 220-S.....i once thought about getting a TBC....but i don't need one at the moment....
I've transferred 18 VHS tapes already. No jitter problems to speak of. I did have to adjust tracking on a few tapes though. I think that may be the culprit. Haven't attempted to transfer an LP tape source yet either. The transfers have all turned out better than expected.
Try turning off any video stabilization/TBC on your VCR. With video stabilizing enabled on my VCR I had a slight 'vibration' of the picture. With it turned off I've had zero problems capturing VHS.
These trials were with commercial VHS tapes using a Sima CT-1 that I bought on ebay some time ago. It's possible that the CT-1 is somehow defective, since it was probably a return unit from someplace. I'll try some capturing of home recording VHS tonight and see if the same problem occurs.
Steve, I have already tried your suggestion re turning off the TBC on my JVC for these commercial tapes. It made some difference, but the problems did not disappear. But I'll also try that again with the home recorded tapes.
Thanks for the feedback, guys.
I've got one of those 'little black boxes' that bypass Macrovision protection. Just a simple box like you see on Ebay, nothing sophisticated. Unfortunately, when it's used I have similar problems to you when used with my Pioneer 420. I thought that buying a better device such as yours might resolve the problem, but that appears not to be the case, at least with that specific Sima box (I was considering getting the same device, but I don't really have much to transfer). I don't know if a better device or a full out TBC would resolve the problem. Either way, it's apparent that 2 'stabilizers', the recorder's + the VCR's or a standalone bypass box, is one too many. My 420 does just fine capturing non-protected VHS if I turn off the VCR's stabilizer. If only we could figure out a way to bypass or turn off the TBC/stabilizer in the recorder we'd be set....
I have had the same problem (jitters on some VHS). As steve said, if you have a "video stabalize" mode on the VCR, turn it off (I know, you'd think to turn it ON . Also, some VCR's have an "edit" mode which may fix the problem.
The Pioneer seems to be ultra sensitive with "input" and that's the real problem, not the VCR. I have a firnd who purchased the Pioneer and only has an Antenna instead of cable. The Pioneer does not take an Antenna signal very well. Any interference comes along and BLAMMO the jitters and all kinds of distortion.
Also, I'm afraid that the Picture quality of the Pioneer is not all that some people make it out to be. Don't get me wrong, it's GOOD, but I have compared it with other recorders and it could be better. It's going to sound crazy, but the ILO/LITEON recorders do a GREAT job of video "cleanup" on just about any input signal. A whole lot "smoother" than the Pioneer. They are also kind of sensitive, but they don't have "black-outs" like the Pioneer.
I think the best feature of the Pioneer is that it works as advertised There are many recorders out there that BARELY work or SEEM to work until they start having real problems.
It's going to be interesting to see the next wave of recorders. It looks like the 12-bit DAC might be for DVD what "HQ" was for VHS.
I did some short testing last night on a home recorded VHS tape. It didn't seem to have the jitter problem (even when run through the Sima CT-1), but still seemed to drop a frame every now and then. I'm starting to think the Pioneer may not be the recorder for VHS conversion unless you have a stand alone TBC.
Has anyone tried running it from VCR1-->CT-1-->VCR2-->DVR220?
I'm going to give it a whirl, see if anything happens, once the CT-1 arrives from the dink on ebay which I purchased last month.
Makes me wonder what this "jitter" looks like. I have tapes that when played back, especially when showing text like credits, look like the page has been printed and thrown in a fishbowl with the water stirred so straight text looks wavy. Is "jitter" worse than that?
P.S. vcr1 to ct-1 to vcr2 to 220. Are you not worried about the degradation going to a second generation tape?
I was thinking more of a passthrough rather then recording to the second VHS, just use it to pass the video onto the DVR using its own outputs?
The following review by a user, claims that the ILO has better pq than the Pioneer.
My own take on the PQ issue:
I have taken a pre-recorded VHS with excellent PQ and played it on a JVC Super VHS ET VCR with S-Video out. I recorded on the ILO and then on the Pioneer 220s. I then compared both "copies" directly by playing both at the same time on seperate SIDE by SIDE monitors.
The ILO has a more "solid" picture. Try this; pause a video made on the Pioneer and then "frame advance" slowly. You will see a "grain" problem that shifts all about the screen. Try the exact same thing with an ILO recorded video and you will see no such problem.
You can try all the settings you want on the Pioneer (Noise Reduction on or off, etc.) and even try going through Composite or S-Video... it doesn't matter. The "grain" is ALWAYS there on the Pioneer. The ILO cleans up the image FAR better than the Pioneer and the result is a more steady image on EVERY frame of video.
I wanted to believe that the pioneer had better PQ (maybe because it cost more). But the fact is... it DOESN'T.
What was the second vcr going to contribute? Does it have some processing ability?
Regarding the ILO vs Pioneer test. I would have switched monitors between the two to make sure that is not the cause of the difference.
Personally, I prefer the tests I first saw from gshelley61 which is to capture stills of THX test patterns so the results can be compared to the test patterns with the only difference being the recorder. Here is a link to some of his tests. Makes it easier for everyone to compare.