Goodbye to Pinnacle - Lesson learned - why I need to change.

[tmh]

OK, before anyone says it, you told me so! Pinnacle 9.3 is just too buggy! Yea, I THOUGHT I was smart and it would work for ME. It did, until now.

Not to brag, but I earn quite a bit of money. I charge $100/hr. for my profession. The last two weeks I was putting together a basketball video for my kids' team. About 10 hrs. of that was re-starting Pinnacle because I was so far into the editing I didn't want to change programs. I just can't afford NOT to pay for a more stabe program!

Pinnacle has great features, and my mpeg2 encoding of DV footage looks as godd as TMPGenc. Editing is very intuative. But when it just shuts down time and again with NO REASON GIVEN, it just drains time from me.

So, I'm buying a new editing program after I do the research. Instead of the $100 budget I used to help me select Pinnacle, I'll be going up to $500 this time. I just NEED a product that is stable. I don't do overly fancy editing so it's really just stability and reliability I'm looking for. Most any decent editing program will have the functionality I need.

So, if you're just getting into this hobby and will be editing/creating, spend some to get a stable editing program if you have to. That part of a home video project can take FOREVER, so you NEED reliability!!!!!

Can I legally sell my Pinnacle 9.0? How would I "unregister" or transfer the registration.

Anyone want to buy it? hmmm..... on that note, it's actually really a GREAT program! I was only kidding about the problems! j/k - I'm not trying to sell it here.

[canadateck]

Sony Vegas is all I can say.

Godd Luck.

[MJPollard]

Gotta concur. Sony's Vegas 5 or Vegas+DVD Production Suite (includes Vegas 5 and DVD Architect 2). They just work, which is probably the highest compliment you can give a program.

[painkiller]

If you want another choice to mull over, take a look at Pure Motion's EditStudio.

It captures DV (from my AVDC-100 in lieu of a digital camcorder) and also is a fine editor of the DV files.

Hasn't crashed once on me.

[reboot]

I've been playing with Mainconcept EVE. It too has been trouble free.

[jtoolman2000]

Funny thing, I've been using studio since 7 to the present with NO problems whatsoever. I only use it to edit and render out to MPG-2 or back to AVI or back to tape because I like the ease in the way you can edit with it. I do believe others have had problems with it as it's evident in their user forum. I've been fortunate that it has worked perfectly for me on my two machines at home and at work. Other pinnacle products such as Liquid Edition absolutely SUCK on my machines but have worked well for other users. I don't know what makes Pinnacle products work on some machines and not on others. That has been a mistery to me. I own Premiere 1.5 - Vegas 5 ( Which I love ) and others. I have grown used to working ( editing ) in Studio 9.3 Plus and so that is why I use it. I have the full blow Hollywood effects and just about every Smartsounds disk for backgorund music creations so all in all it is a very good package capable of at least what I need for my personal and money projects. At least for me.

[lordsmurf]

Adobe Premiere
Vegas Video
Canopus Edius, Canopus Let's Edit
Avid

I use Premiere 6.5 mostly.

[tmh]

Thanks for the ideas. I'm taking my time this go around to make sure I get what I want. It sounds like some of these have few complaints concerning reliability. "It just works" is just what I want to hear!

DVD, your Pinnacle experience is similar to what mine WAS before the last two projects, although I'd only been doing this stuff for about 9 months. I scoffed at all the "Pinnacle Sucks" talk all over the web. It IS full of features and it IS very intuitive to create with. I just realized that I already spend about 12 hrs. avg. per project (includes review of hours of camcorder tape, old photo scans - new are digital - hours of editing and adding music, etc. I just can NOT add 5 hrs. for Pinnacle turn on/off/on/off etc.

I wish you good luck with it - if it works, it's a great program.

[dcsos]

Sony Vegas 5.0
Adobe Premiere 6.5 (old friend that slowly becomes weaker than VEGAS)
Avid DV Express

anything else (forgive my english) is probably waste of Hard Drive Space
List of personally found to be bad programs for editing
Pinnacle Liquid Edition
ArcSoft Showbiz
Speed Razor
Ulead 4.0, 5.0
Dazzle Main Actor

[lordsmurf]

anything else (forgive my english) is probably waste of Hard Drive Space
List of personally found to be bad programs for editing

add...

Power Producer
Power Director

[jtoolman2000]

Even though I have been able to use Studio, I agree that VEGAS is the way to go. An erthquake has to have hit your PC for it to act up. Mine has NEVER done anything weird or odd "on it's own". It has always performed flawlessly. I just need to immerse myself in it and fully learn the nuances of VEGAS. It is a bit pricey but you can't argue with success!!! The $$$ were well spent and yes, it simply does work!!!!
By the way, let's not forget Architect which I do use for all my authoring. Great app!!!

[rgs_uk]

Definitely Vegas. I use it day in day out, have been doing for about a year (version 4 on 98SE and now 5 on XP), and I think in all that time it has gone down about three times.

Prior to that, I used Premiere 6.5, which was always pretty unstable on several systems and I would never consider it again.

[tmh]

Is the Sony Screenblast/Movie studio program also stable, if anyone knows? Not to be cheap, and I may but Vegas yet, but I'm not doing overly complicated stuff and just want a STABLE product. Pinnacle was plenty enough for me functionally.

If anyone knows, is going with the "full" Sony Vegas over the "Sony Lite" Screenblast a compromise on Quality/Stability or is it more features, etc. What are some of the "normal" things one can do with Vegas but not with the cheaper product?

Thanks again

[MJPollard]

Far as I know, Vegas Movie Studio+DVD is just as stable as its bigger brothers. You give up a lot of features (including AC3 support, just to name one), but you do gain stability, plus the interface and editing features are the same.

Why not go to http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.com/ and download the trial version? The features will be limited, but you can still get a feel for how the programs look and work. Plus, you might just decide to spring for "big brother" Vegas 5 (or Vegas+DVD) after all, after seeing what it can do.

[tmh]

Thanks, that's just what i'll do. Might as well give it a test-run. I have a short project to do soon so I'll use the trial for that.

[MJPollard]

Thanks, that's just what i'll do. Might as well give it a test-run. I have a short project to do soon so I'll use the trial for that.

Just a friendly suggestion: I've never used the demos, but they might be so limited that you can't save your project or render the video (or, if it will render, it'll only render a short clip). Best to test it now, before you actually embark on your project; that way, you'll not be pressed for time once you need to start.

[lordsmurf]

Prior to that, I used Premiere 6.5, which was always pretty unstable on several systems and I would never consider it again.

I would disagree about this being a widespread issue. Premiere is just a bit more cumbersome than Vegas. Your problem may have been CPU-related, Adobe is a glutten.

[fwbaumann]

I've used Pinnacle 8 and 9 and cursed at the crashes. HOWEVER, I think they got it right this time. I bought 9.3, and it still crashed. When I downloaded and applied the recent patch the program smoothed out and runs mostly without complaint. What a difference a patch makes. The program has a great human interface and for simple videos it's hard to beat. You can still crash it. I used the soundsoap plug in (Soundsoap 1 sucks but soundsoap 2 is a great sound fixer.) and if you fat finger the keyboard you can crash the program. Pinnacle renders the preview on the fly and if the action is intense a crash is still possible if a person proceeds too rapidly. I look at the hard drive and if the light is on constantly I slow down somewhat. With the old program I was so discusted I wrote the CEO a nasty letter. With ver 9.3 and the patch to 9.3.15 I'm completely satisfied with the program. (It seems to work in XP and Win 2000...ME well you are just asking for a crash.) If you have Pinnacle 8 or 9 it is definately worth the upgrade.
Fred

[reboot]

After playing with Pinnacle 9.3, Premiere crippled POS demo version something, Mainconcept EVE, and a few other's on dscos' list above, I find EVE the most stable, without the bells and whistles of some.
I'm still sticking to Vegas 4 though, and can't quite bring myself to upgrade to V5
Steeper learning curve, and I've had it for over a year, just now finding I need to use it. Coupled with Soundforge, it's a superb app.

[tmh]

One last question on the Sony products.

For each, Sony Vegas and Vegas Movie Studio, is the newest version a "must have" or are the older versions as good or even better? i know I read alot here about many products' newest release being WORSE than the older versions. I just want to here from someone who's got experience with these apps so i don't buy the wrong one.

I think the older "Sony Lite" product was called Sony Screenblast Movie Studio, right? I think now it's Vegas Movie Studio.

[EricS]

I use the new Adobe Premiere Pro 1.5. It is a pretty cool program, not too many lockups. If you are/know a student they can buy the complete Video Collection 2.5 Standard for about $400 from http://www.academicsuperstore.com/.

Includes:

Adobe Premiere Pro
Adobe After Effects Standard
Adobe Audition
Adobe Encore DVD

E

[lordsmurf]

You can buy Adobe Premiere 6.5 off eBay, or even Vegas 4 ... for pennies on the dollar.

Just a shopping tip.

[canadateck]

I think you could buy Vegas 4 on Ebay ,then just buy the Upgrade to 5... I think you could do this.

[MJPollard]

Agreed. If you can find Vegas 4, go for it. There's really not much difference between it and Vegas 5, aside from a lot of esoteric bells and whistles in the 90% of the app that most of us don't use.

[tmh]

Yea, thanks for the input, i think I'll look around for Vegas 4.0 . The reason i also am considering the "watered down" Vegas movie Studio is that I find most of the "extras" I see to be distracting rather than making a better project.

Maybe some folks use them better than I do, but that's been my experience with the "extras" in Pinnacle. There's something like 50 different fades, i use TWO - fadein/out and Dissolve. All the rest look cheezy to me.

Anyways, I'm in no hurry so waiting for an eBay deal is fine. I'm stuck doing one more in Pinnacle due to time constraints and after that it will be awhile.

Thanks for all the good info.

[badgerboy]

I have to reiterate the suggestion that you try Pure Motion's EditStudio. It is low cost, seems to have all the power of higher end products and has never crashed on me once. (I used Pinnacle 8 prior to this, and also lived in crash city with you...) You can download and try a fully-functional trial for a month. You can't actually output totally final product, as the trial version of the MPEGXS plug-in for outputting files puts a water mark in the file. But that's the only limitation; for purposes of trying it out, its fully functional. And as soon as you buy it, you can re-output the work already done without the watermark.

I use it with DVD-Lab as the authoring tool This is also a good, low-cost app, though I'm a bit less enthusiastic about it than ES. It has also been very stable.

[proxyx99]

Don't know of any other app thet can do a scene detection without splitting the file physically other then Studio. Works great for me and I love it 100% for the no nonsense design. Had few crashes in the past but always immediately recovered without losing anything. I like Vegas and Edition (or Liquid -most power out of the box). But Studio design concept is just a jewel for quick editing. New 9.3 Plus seems to do a very good job.. zero issues. Studio always keeps me coming back despite some shortcomings...

[accountwiz]

Do either Vegas Movie Studio, Premieere Elements or EditStudio allow you to import video with Dolby AC3 audio? I really don't mind if it gets converted to mpeg audio in the encoding process. I just don't want to have to go through a bunch of extra steps with files recorded on my DVD Recorder.

Thanks. I really could use an answer, as I'm about to buy an encoder.

[edDV]

Do either Vegas Movie Studio, Premieere Elements or EditStudio allow you to import video with Dolby AC3 audio? I really don't mind if it gets converted to mpeg audio in the encoding process. I just don't want to have to go through a bunch of extra steps with files recorded on my DVD Recorder.

Thanks. I really could use an answer, as I'm about to buy an encoder.

I don't know about Pinnacle Studio9, but ULead Video Studio 8 will import AC-3 audio when the AC-3 $29.99 option is used.

[proxyx99]

Womble MPEG Video Wizard is bomb-proof for importing AC3, frame acurate mpeg editing and ultra stable (audio output is in MPEG or PCM if reencoded). You can also use NeroVision Express to do some minor work and it can also import/output in AC3 (editing is not a prime strength of it though). Try a demo - worth a look.