Copyrights laws

[MACCA350]

hi all, here's a hypothetical.

Assuming (and this assumption may be wrong) that there is/are countries(i'll call Freeland) that do not have the same, or any, copyright laws as mentioned above. This would mean that any company wishing to sell a product with copyright from another country(i'll call Payland) would be aware that their copyright does not apply in Freeland, and they would by selling in that country waive any rights implied in the copyright they hold in Payland

So, in Freeland with no copyright law anyone could copy anything without fear of breaking the law. (everyone still with me so far )


OK, a company based in Payland with associated copyrights in their own country and has distributed a dvd legally to Freeland (knowing full well that their copyright laws do not apply in Freeland).

Someone in Freeland legally buys this dvd and copies it (as is their right in Freeland). Now so-far this is legal.

This person desides to give/sell his legally copied dvd to someone in Payland so he puts it in a box and sends it this person in Payland.

Now can the person in Payland be charged for pirating or possesion of illegally copied dvd? In this hypothetical no copyright laws have been broken, the dvd was legally copied in Freeland and then sent to Payland

Anyway this would make for an interesting case if there was a country that did not recognize copyright laws.

[vitualis]

It isn't as simple as this.

For example, Payland could insist as part of its customs/import laws that articles of intellectual property brought into its borders must respect the relevent copyright holder if one exists within its borders.

e.g., Distributor X is not recognised by Media Co as having a right to its copyright. Within Freeland, they can do whatever they like. However, if you try to bring in a DVD made by Distributor X into Payland, it is considered "pirated" material and can be confiscated.

There are countries that don't recognise international copyrights. e.g., Taiwan.

Regards.

[pchan]

All countries recognize copy right law if they member of WTO including Taiwan. Is the degree enforcement that is the matter.

[boss]

i always hear people say there are no copyright laws in turkey, and they must be in the WTO. HMM.. maybe they don't enforce them.

[Jeremiah58]

2) The guy who makes copies because his kids ruin the originals and has no history of any selling whatsoever.

I'd love to see #2 taken to court. So far, they have not. Why? Public relations and why prosecute someone who is not making a profit.

You won't see anybody taken to court for that.
I believe that in any country, there must be a prosecuting party who suffer some lost or damage, and a defending party who gain some profit out of that damage.

[dsherman]

I don't think the majority has to worry, at least here in the US. I like to make backup's of disks that are getting damaged, or copy TV shows for personal use. However, they are not going to come after you for the occassional backup. 1 because your there customer and they want to make you happy and 2 because they are not loosing that much money on the average joe. It's the people that distribute to a large quantity of people. say I make I copy of a cd or dvd, then I make 15 or 20 copies and sell it or give it a way, and then I consistantly do it, then they will come after me. usaually the average joe will support what they like. even if they have backup or bootleg cd's in there possession. so really i wouldn't worry about it unlesss you are doing it in quantity.

[boss]

there was an article in an irish paper a few weeks ago about pirate dvd's and they were talking to some offical about it(i think it might have been copyright theft guy or a police man) anyway he said something like if you copied dvd's for home use they were hardly going to bang your door in and get you. but selling copied dvd's was obviously a different story.

so, i don't think
the guy who makes dvd backups for his kids has anything to worry about.

[adam]

2) The guy who makes copies because his kids ruin the originals and has no history of any selling whatsoever.

I'd love to see #2 taken to court. So far, they have not. Why? Public relations and why prosecute someone who is not making a profit.

You won't see anybody taken to court for that.
I believe that in any country, there must be a prosecuting party who suffer some lost or damage, and a defending party who gain some profit out of that damage.

I agree you won't see anyone taken to court for this because its just small potatoes and mostly because its impossible to police. But actual monetary loss on the part of the copyright holder, or actual monetary gain on the part of the infringer has never been a prerequisite to filing a copyright infringement suit in the US, and I doubt that is true in any other country either. That is why many countries have registration systems, so copyright holders can collect fixed statutory damages because it is virtually impossible to prove how much money you have lost due to an infringement.

[adam]

MACCA350 that is what international treaties are for. For Copyrights, the TRIPS Treaty is pretty much all encompassing of the other major treaties, though lots of countries have billateral agreements just between them. But any WTO member or former Berne Treaty signatory is now governed by TRIPS and it specifies a number of minimum standards that the countries must adhere to. For the most part, it normalizes the law and makes each country's copyright law relatively similar. The same core infringements apply in any country with a copyright law system.

So the example you bring up really only applies to those countries not governed by TRIPS, which really is not that significant. I say this because virtually all of the major importers and exporters of intellectual property law have already signed on.

[Phantom Of The Opera]

I say this because virtually all of the major importers and exporters of intellectual property law have already signed on.

What about China? Isn't that where most of the copyright-scofflaws operate? (with the full knowledge and approval of the govt., I might add).

[Karate Media]

Basically, it's safe to assume copying ANY media that is copyrighted...is illegal. You then prioritize who is more likely to be prosecuted...

1) The guy who is selling copies on the net or to local people.

2) The guy who makes copies because his kids ruin the originals and has no history of any selling whatsoever.

I'd love to see #2 taken to court. So far, they have not. Why? Public relations and why prosecute someone who is not making a profit.

But, as we have seen with the RIAA, if there is a way to track a "non-profitting" infringer, then that organization may very well sue everyone they can. Even dead grandmothers. As adam said, profit is not a factor in infringement cases -- the fact that I'm not hauled into court for backing up my DVDs is mostly because there's no way for them to know.

Now, if they had some sort of code implemented on DVDs that would contact the studio via the internet when you tried to copy the disc on your PC, and track your IP address, then you'd start seeing people being bullied into paying fines, a la the RIAA.

[adam]

Phantom Of The Opera

China is a WTO member. Its not their Copyright laws that are lacking its their enforcement of them. Its been an ongoing problem for years. They have been sanctioned numerous times and lots of countries have placed all kinds of trade restrictions on them, for intellectual property or otherwise.

[Nilfennasion]

The newspapers were full of stories of how the prices will come down once more pressing-plants are built.... the prices will go down when the new format is accepted... the prices will go down when the cheaper cost of shipping and packaging is factored in...

I had to say something about this. I think the rest of the world could learn a thing or two from the Australian experience. Up until about 1997 or thereabouts, the mean price for a CD was $30, roughly two or three hours' wages. Many governments came and went bombarded with complaints about this. Indeed, at one time Australia was paying the highest price in the world for prerecorded music. This was due in no small part to the fact that the RIAA basically had a monopoly over the process of importing, which had been granted them by treasurer and later prime minister Paul Keating.

One of the first, and few right things the Howard government has done is to deregulate the importing of CDs. Now, any store or company can bring in CDs from overseas, but only Australian record labels can export Australian material, which puts the advantage back in the hands of content producers. It also has the effect of increasing competition, which is what really drives prices down. In other words, increased production rates and cheaper resources mean nothing if the producers engage in anticompetitive behaviour.

Americans really have no right to complain about the price of CDs or DVDs, anyway. It is a common occurrence in Australia to find that importing the American product is cheaper than buying the local version, provides better content and formatting, or both. As an example, at one point, the total cost of ownership for season one of Dark Angel, if you bought the two boxed sets available in Australia, was $140. By comparison, it cost me between $40 and $50 to import a six-disc set containing the entire season from America. And this is not an isolated example.

[fmctm1sw]

Man, great thread. Adam outdid himself this time. You just can't seem to win with all this copyright stuff.