Courtney Love does the math

[JohnnyCNote]

I keep hearing that these "artists" got screwed by a record company. Cant they read?

When was the last time you read a legal contract? Take a look at a typical credit card agreement if you want to see a classic example of one. You should acquaint yourself with some facts before making all sorts of blanket assumptions....

[mattyboy]

So they can assume to be fucked over just because contracts are complicated? Get a lawyer. If its so complicated how can it broken down into black and white like BJ_M has posted on page one here? Please. If this happens "all the time" dont you think someone would be wise to it now? The sad fact is people dont ask questions when it comes to these matters and just take it as the truth all at face value. Thats their fault.
And I read my credit card contract, Im not as lazy as you seem to be.

[BJ_M]

Do use lawyers - doesnt mater ..

you have two options:

dont sign --- end of the road

sign



there is no negotiation or a 'better' deal ..

you can go with an independent or small label , but 99% of the time thats the kiss of death also ..

plus many (some) of those will screw you worse

[doppletwo]

BOO HOO
if you can't live off of $45,000.00 a year, you can kiss my ass

$45,000.00 wouldn't even cover a months worth of drugs for Courtney.

So they can assume to be fucked over just because contracts are complicated? Get a lawyer. If its so complicated how can it broken down into black and white like BJ_M has posted on page one here? Please. If this happens "all the time" dont you think someone would be wise to it now? The sad fact is people dont ask questions when it comes to these matters and just take it as the truth all at face value. Thats their fault.
And I read my credit card contract, Im not as lazy as you seem to be.

People get wise to and then their record company drops them.


But there are examples of people who get around the Major labels.


Master P made over 100 million dollars because he owned his own label. (well now he also owns a clothing line, a movie production company and a television production company) He went to junior college for ayear to learn enough to run record label.

The only thing he went top a major label for was distribution.

He produced, marketed and manufactured his own CD's.

His stuff isn't even any good after 1996. Not that is was spectatular before 1996.

There are plenty of artists bitching about their record companies, but unless they get off their ass and start doing some business they won't get to keep the money.

Other examples are Madonna who as part of her contract renegiation was given her own records label, Maverick.

The people who get ripped off think that if they just show and make some music they will get rich.

they are too busy with sex, drugs and rocknroll to worry about the music business.

Courteny Love estimate of 20% was quite generous have you seen the VH1 show behind the music TLC only got 4% for the three of them combined.

MC Hammer went broke for different reasons though. Hammer actually had a really great contract because he already had a few ghetto golds under his belt. (ghetto gold is selling 100,000 cd's and tape out of your trunk, 100% of ghetto gold is more cash than a gold record achieved through a major label!)

MC Hammer went broke cause he just spent way too much.

[mattyboy]

Do use lawyers - doesnt mater ..

you have two options:

dont sign --- end of the road

sign



there is no negotiation or a 'better' deal ..

you can go with an independent or small label , but 99% of the time thats the kiss of death also ..

plus many (some) of those will screw you worse

That would suck. I feel bad for anyone in that position.

[JohnnyCNote]

The problem is that the record companie types will court these musicians, throw some money their way and act like their best friends, but if they're not careful, they'll sign something that's going to leave them in a very disadvantageous position. It's not impossible to get a good deal - you just have to be very careful. The music business is full of flakes and sharks. Scattered here and there are a FEW people who are honest and who'll treat their artists with respect.

I had several occasions to sign a "contract", but I knew from the start the people who were so eager to get my signature were sharks who smelled the potential to make some money off my hard work. I'd rather be poor and unsigned than poor and signed, which many of these guys are.

If you check back, some of the most famous acts in history have been screwed out of millions. Two prime examples are Jimi Hendrix, who was worked like a slave 'til he died from mixing barbs and alchohol, and Credence Clearwater Revival. CCR managed to get some of their money back after YEARS of litigation. Their managers had put their money in off-shore bank accounts and lived high on the hog off of CCR's sweat.

I managed to avoid getting screwed because I read a lot of interviews with musicians over the years, but not everyone takes the time to research this stuff. And while people have to accept a certain part of the blame themselves for being ignorant of what they're getting into, that in no way absolves the sharks who are looking to prey on eager bands who's only crime was being too trusting.....

[JohnnyCNote]

Check out the words penned by Lemmy of Motörhead, "All the Aces":

The only thing I know, is playing rock 'n' roll,
I'm not a business man, I'm just in a good time band,
You don't let no-one know, just where the money goes,
Because of parasites, I ain't got no rights,
All The Aces, I don't like people who ain't got no faces

You know I don't know why, you have to be so sly,
One thing I learned, I don't get what I earn,
But you get your share, though you ain't nowhere,
You get no wiser, but then I despise you,
All The Aces, don't like people who ain't got no faces

You know you're the boss, but I'm the one it costs,
Gotta see the books, you give me dirty looks,
You know you make me vomit, and I ain't far from it,
You know you can rob me, but you can't stop me,
All The Aces, don't like people who ain't got no faces

[Nilfennasion]

n music, it's considered OK by spend upwards of $18 on a CD with only two out of fourteen songs being hit-quality. It would be like me walking into a grocery store, asking for two bananas, and having the clerk say, "Well, we can't sell you those two bananas unless you buy these 12 lemons as well." If a grocery clerk said something like that, most people would tell him to go to Hell. But somehow, when the music industry says it, it's supposed to be good business.

Again, the real reason the RIAA is scared is because their sponsored labels follow this model, whereas more underground labels do not. I have yet to listen to a DarkThrone album where the quality of the six or seven songs following the opener are not reflected in quality by said opener. They also don't tend to pander to short attention spans. Whereas fourteen songs might equal thirty-five minutes to Courtney Love's ilk, fourteen songs to the likes of My DyING BRIDE entails at least two hours. And unlike Love's repetitive twaddle, I can look you in the eye and say these artists' songs rarely contain a single boring second.

The age old question of how you compete with a monopoly has been answered. You give the listener a better product.

[mattyboy]

Check out the words penned by Lemmy of Motörhead, "All the Aces":

The only thing I know, is playing rock 'n' roll,
I'm not a business man, I'm just in a good time band,
You don't let no-one know, just where the money goes,
Because of parasites, I ain't got no rights,
All The Aces, I don't like people who ain't got no faces

You know I don't know why, you have to be so sly,
One thing I learned, I don't get what I earn,
But you get your share, though you ain't nowhere,
You get no wiser, but then I despise you,
All The Aces, don't like people who ain't got no faces

You know you're the boss, but I'm the one it costs,
Gotta see the books, you give me dirty looks,
You know you make me vomit, and I ain't far from it,
You know you can rob me, but you can't stop me,
All The Aces, don't like people who ain't got no faces

Riiiiiiight.

[JohnnyCNote]

I'll take the word of someone who's been there over someone who hasn't any day....

[Nilfennasion]

Riiiiiiight.

I can just imagine Lemmy writing a song about the likes of mattyboy. Given that Lemmy has around half a century's worth of experience in the music industry, starting with acts like Hawkwind, he could call it All The Empty Arrogance.

[JohnnyCNote]

Maybe someone needs to spend some time with his orgone accumulator....

[AlecWest]

The problem is that the record companie types will court these musicians, throw some money their way and act like their best friends, but if they're not careful, they'll sign something that's going to leave them in a very disadvantageous position.

Yup. The difference between an acquisitions person at a publishing house and an acquisitions person at a music-media house is that the publisher treats the artist like a partner ... and the media house treats the artist like a 'mark' ... kinda like the difference between buying a book from a bookstore and buying a car from a dealership. The book salesman isn't out to bleed you dry. The car salesman is.

[mattyboy]

starting with acts like Hawkwind

Hawkwind? You continue to impress me.

[Nilfennasion]

Oh, I'm glad. Impressing a person who cannot even spell their hero's name correctly really is high on my list of priorities. Get this through your head: nobody cares about your worthless opinion. Your sad excuses for defenses of the RIAA are exactly the kind they do not want.

[NamPla]

They spend half a million to record their album.

That's f@%king ridiculous!

[BJ_M]

why ? some spend a lot more and some spend a lot less ..

250-750,000 is not out of line ..

[Nilfennasion]

250,000 could easily have paid for the recording of all of DarkThrone's albums. Hell, with the production standard of most of them, I'd not be surprised to learn they had cash to spare out of that. Yet, exceptions like Transylvanian Hunger notwithstanding, I'd listen to any of their work long before the shite the RIAA puts out.

[MOVIEGEEK]

"$45,000.00 wouldn't even cover a months worth of drugs for Courtney."

[dcsos]

Yeah, read that on SALON back in 2000
Courtney is to be congratulated for her thoughts, but look at how she's been unable to practice any of what she preached, putting out an LP that they say she hadda get a lot of help fininshing! and being unable to turn around any of the music indutry practcices she despises ..
This business of MUSIC could kill ya!
lookat KURT

[BJ_M]

she does seem to be pretty messed up at this point

[deadskullz]

They make more money then any of us would dream to make enough said. I don't feel the least bit sad about any of it boohoo. Maybe they should do more then 1 thing if their not making enough or can't live on $45,000.00 i could live off that easy. They buy so much dumb stuff like bling, car's and all kinds of bs they don't even need what a waste. Maybe they should do more to help the poor kids starving give me a break.

[JohnnyCNote]

For every dollar a major artist earns, you can be 100% certain that the record companies earn many times more. If you reduce what the artists earn, you'll only put more money in the pockets of record company executives.

Also, for every musician you see on a stage making big money, there are probably 1000 (estimated conservatively) who are just as good but not making a living playing music. If they're lucky, they're paying out their own money to play wherever they can....

[BJ_M]

Marlon Brando received $4 million for his ten minutes on screen in superman -- putting things into perspective ..

[mattyboy]

250,000 could easily have paid for the recording of all of DarkThrone's albums. Hell, with the production standard of most of them, I'd not be surprised to learn they had cash to spare out of that. Yet, exceptions like Transylvanian Hunger notwithstanding, I'd listen to any of their work long before the shite the RIAA puts out.

You're an idiot.

You are in breach of the forum rules and are being issued with a formal warning. You were informally warned about this earlier by lordsmurf. Now I am giving you a formal warning - don't do it again.
/ Moderator Cobra

[This warning will not be removed without further discussion]

[bazooka]

You're an idiot.

Does it make you feel better to insult people?

Is your life so empty that you need to hurl insults at others to make yourself better?

I suggest you reread the rules again.

[mattyboy]

Suggest all you want, youre the most bitter person Ive ever heard from, you always seem to pipe up after youre sure that someone else is on your side. If you could read you'd see Ive had words with this guy ten posts up, so go back to making apologies for the replies you post. "misunderstood" my ass.

[bazooka]

Suggest all you want, youre the most bitter person Ive ever heard from, you always seem to pipe up after youre sure that someone else is on your side. If you could read you'd see Ive had words with this guy ten posts up, so go back to making apologies for the replies you post. "misunderstood" my ass.

Whatever

You are in breach of the forum rules and are being issued with a formal warning. Joining a thread just to goad an argumentative member and then making a spurious report is not acceptable. I thought you had left? If you want to stay do not repeat this sort of behaviour.
/ Moderator offline

[DVDDave]

WTF---mattyboy is the one "goading" people!!!

maybe it is time to lock this thread??

[offline]

DVDDave, if you have a comment about a mod's
action then please take it to feedback.

No, I'm not locking this thread at this time.
Members are asked to behave!
Thankyou