Best Encoder Software or Hardware?

[mlong30]

I'm currently in the market for a MPEG encoder. I've been testing the Tmpgenc Plus, and so far it looks good. I just want to know is Tmpgenc the best software encoder on the market?

If so, what is the best Hardware encoder on the market? What is the performance/quality difference between software/hardware encoders?

What manufactures make the best hardware encoders? These were the ones I was able to find, just don't know if they are worth the price.

http://www.darvision.com/index.shtml
http://www.optibase.com/Content.aspx?id=83


Any ideas where reviews are posted on hardware encoders?


Thanks!


Matt

[redwudz]

I think you will find a commercial quality hardware encoder is very expensive.

Cinema Craft Encoder is one of the best software encoders; so are ProCoder, TMPGEnc. It depends on who you talk to and what they are asking them to do.

Any of them should produce profession grade encoding with the proper settings and a very good source file. I think you will find 'best' is mostly a matter of opinion. Each one has it's strengths and weaknesses.

One of the members here should be able to give you more info on hardware encoders. I believe some of them work in the video production business.

[guns1inger]

What is your source ?

If you have orignal 35mm source and a film scanner and you intend to make commercial product en masse, then they might be worth it.

If your source is DV, or even SP, then Procoder or CCE will be more than adequate.

[edDV]

I'm currently in the market for a MPEG encoder. I've been testing the Tmpgenc Plus, and so far it looks good. I just want to know is Tmpgenc the best software encoder on the market?

If so, what is the best Hardware encoder on the market? What is the performance/quality difference between software/hardware encoders?

What manufactures make the best hardware encoders? These were the ones I was able to find, just don't know if they are worth the price.

http://www.darvision.com/index.shtml
http://www.optibase.com/Content.aspx?id=83


Any ideas where reviews are posted on hardware encoders?


Thanks!


Matt

Better couple description of intended use and a $ budget to the term "best" to focus you responses.

Should we limit out responses to encoders under $10,000 for instance?


Optibase is good, Sonic has a line that is popular.
http://www.sonic.com/products/sdseries/default.htm

[mlong30]

Better couple description of intended use and a $ budget to the term "best" to focus you responses.

Should we limit out responses to encoders under $10,000 for instance?

I don't want to spend no more than $2,000.00 on a hardware encoder, if thats even possible or worth it. I would like to know about the $10,000 and under just for info, but if there is not that much difference in quality/speed from sofware then I'll go with the software.

As for intended use, right now I'm planning on creating DVD movies for family/friends that they shot with their camcorders. I just want my dvds to look professional or close to it as possible. I have a Sony VX2100 in my budget as well.

[BJ_M]

for the high end hardware encoders you will require a Digital BetaCam or D5 to feed the signal to the encoder ..

plan on spending about $25,000 - $100,000+

or a component to SDI convertor $1000

many of the high end encoders are mac only btw

[mpiper]

For your budget, I would recommend Cinemacraft Encoder SP, which runs $1995. It fits in your budget, provides Hollywood quality encoding, and is a software solution that allows a HUGE amount of adjustment.

For a great deal, the CCE Basic is only $58 and uses the same basic encoder, but without the fine adjustments and limited number of VBR passes.

Many sites recommend a quality/quantizer setting of 20-24, which results in a very good picture with a little mosquito noise on edges. I personally use a setting of 12-16 and get virtually no extra noise, smooth colors and great detail.

If you want the best, take a look at the Cinemacraft Pro or Xtream, both of which are hardware solutions consisting of an entire computer prebuilt with their specialized encoder card. Both are of the "If you have to ask, you can't afford it" variety, so I am guessing $7,500 for Pro and $10,000 for Xtream. (if they aren't even more.)

An alternate would be Canopus Procoder, which is about $500. Canopus also has a PCI card for about $570, and a pro-level card for about $1700.

Canopus has the "cleanest" encode, but some fine details may be lost. That is why I prefer CCE, but many people here like Canopus.

Here is how I would break it out:
For crystal clear video, computer graphics, 3d, cartoon, etc. use CCE.
For grainy or analog video, use Canopus to loose the grain.

The other option is to use filters and then CCE, butthat involves extra software.

This was long, but hopefully gave useful info.

Mike

[reboot]

Another vote for Canopus Procoder. Arguably the best software solution.

[Dilemma]

The best all around encoder is Mainconcept MPEG Encoder. It allows for multiple passes along with many other options with absolutely no quality loss. It also allows for batch encoding. More importantly its wicked fast. On my pc with an Athlon XP 3000+ with 1 gig of ram I can encode a whole 2 hour movie in 1 hr were tmpgenc would take 4-8 hours. Something to think about!

[BJ_M]

The best all around encoder is Mainconcept MPEG Encoder. It allows for multiple passes along with many other options with absolutely no quality loss. It also allows for batch encoding. More importantly its wicked fast. On my pc with an Athlon XP 3000+ with 1 gig of ram I can encode a whole 2 hour movie in 1 hr were tmpgenc would take 4-8 hours. Something to think about!

of course it (like ANY other mpeg encoder) has quality loss -- mpeg is a lossy format

[GeorgeW]

ok, dvd's for family and friends, and dv25 source from VX2100.

Do you plan to encode as the final step (after all editing is done)? What will you be using to edit, and will you be adding transitions, titles, and other stuff to your videos?

Do you need speed for your encoding?

Some editing packages can encode with amazing quality (if you don't need realtime encoding).

[ronnylov]

For creating home videos and DVD from camcorders I recommend Canopus Procoder. You can get similar results with heavy tweaking of the settings in Mainconcept encoder or any other software encoder in combination with filters, but with Procoder you don't have to tweak all strange settings to get great results.

In my opinion CCE comes on third place after Canopus Procoder and Mainconcept encoder. TMPGEnc is slightly below CCE in quality. However I have not tried the latest versions of CCE (version 2.70 and above) so it may have changed lately.

I find CCE very good on preogressive encodings, like film material but it is not very good on interlaced encodings.

I have no experience in hardware encoders.

But all this is a matter of personal taste and you will get different opinions from different people.

[edDV]

If editing is a major consideration, keep in mind that the Mainconcept MPeg2 encoder is built into Adobe Premiere Pro, Sony Vegas and ULead MediaStudio Pro.

All three companies offer feature reduced versions of the Mainconcept encoder in their consumer products Premiere Elements, Vegas Movie Studio and ULead Video Studio 8.

I've had very good results from Mainconcept for DV to DVD encoding. I can also recommend Canopus Procoder from personal experience.

The hardware encoders can be booked at service bureaus (productiuon houses) for far less than buying them. If you contract out, you get best quality with overnight turnaround and professional quality control.

[BJ_M]

there is now an upgrade to turn the mainconcept encoder in Vegas Movie Studio into the full version for 99$ ...

[edDV]

Not a bad deal. Fry's recently had Vegas Movie Studio for $29 after 2 rebates.

I could use a second encoder license for $128, but I would miss the scopes.

[mlong30]

<< quote="GeorgeW": Do you plan to encode as the final step (after all editing is done)? What will you be using to edit, and will you be adding transitions, titles, and other stuff to your videos? >>


Yes I'll be adding transitions, titles and other stuff (Imaginate 2.0). I'm still trying to decided if I want to use Adobe Premeire 1.5, Ulead 8, or Vegas 5 for my editor. I'm currently testing Vegas 5, but the demo doesn't let you render to mpeg. So I'm doing AVI conversion to mpeg using CCE SP trial. I don't believe this will generate the best quality output.

Do you know if you can render directly to a third party encoder, like CCE, or ProCoder without doing a AVI conversion when using Premiere, Ulead or Vegas 5?


<< quote="GeorgeW": Do you need speed for your encoding? >>

Not really, I'll take quality over speed any day. I have a dual PIII system, with 1gig of ram. Plan on expanding it to 2gig.


<< quote="GeorgeW": Some editing packages can encode with amazing quality (if you don't need realtime encoding).>>

Which ones? Also are there better editors than Preimiere, Ulead and Vegas 5?



Finally I found a Encoder Review list by some professional in the field who reviewed a number of Encoders. I don't know if these pros have any weight.

http://videosystems.com/mag/video_mpeg_encoder_shootout/index.html
http://images.industryclick.com/files/127/404VSsfeature.pdf


Thanks!

Matt

[mlong30]

<< [quote="edDV"]If editing is a major consideration, keep in mind that the Mainconcept MPeg2 encoder is built into Adobe Premiere Pro, Sony Vegas and ULead MediaStudio Pro. >>

Any ideas what version they are using?




Thanks!

Matt

[mlong30]

Do you plan to encode as the final step (after all editing is done)?

Yes.



Thanks!


Matt

[BJ_M]

[quote="mlong30"]<<

If editing is a major consideration, keep in mind that the Mainconcept MPeg2 encoder is built into Adobe Premiere Pro, Sony Vegas and ULead MediaStudio Pro. >>

Any ideas what version they are using?




Thanks!

Matt

what do you mean what version ? sony vegas uses a highly tweaked out version for example

[SatStorm]

If I had a 2K budget to spare for this task, I wouldn't spend it on one thing only!

Anyway: for 2K CCE SP is the best, you need to learn avisynth to use it the correct way. Latest versions have better GUI btw.

Procoder is a good solution. It is an encoder.

TMPGenc plus IMO is the best overall solution. But it is slow compare the other encoders. The quality at it's best is about procoder's

Mainconcept is a good solution. It is fast and offers and a capture utility that makes possible to any card capture direct to mpeg 2. But some users have issues with the picture quality that offers: It seems it doesn't handle all sources the same way, or it produce better results on certain sources. I don't know anymore, I use it only when I wish to capture to mpeg 2 realtime with my older cards.

[edDV]

[quote="mlong30"]<<

If editing is a major consideration, keep in mind that the Mainconcept MPeg2 encoder is built into Adobe Premiere Pro, Sony Vegas and ULead MediaStudio Pro. >>

Any ideas what version they are using?

Thanks!

Matt

Mainconcept provides technologies to these companies in the form of a software development kit (SDK, Current version: 1.4.2). Each company tunes the basic encoding tools to their product I/O flow. Sony it is said has added their own twists and tricks. Adobe Premiere Pro and Encore, Discreet Cleaner XL, etc. are all using this SDK as a basis for their encoding products. Mainconcept also sells standalone version products.

See P-36 of this document to see Sony's description of MPeg2 modes.
http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.com/products/Vegas5NewFeatures.pdf

Mainconcept's Page
http://www.mainconcept.com/mpeg_encoder.shtml

Mainconcept's technology is also the basis for the Discreet Cleaner XL
http://www.mainconcept.com/partners/discreet/discreet.shtml

Ulead's Products
http://www.mainconcept.com/partners/ulead/ulead.shtml

Adobe's Products
http://www.mainconcept.com/partners/adobe/adobe.shtml

Sony Products
http://www.mainconcept.com/partners/sony-pictures/sony-pictures.shtml

[BJ_M]

and "squeeze" uses mainconcept ...


BUT i heard cleaner is not going to ....

[edDV]

Discreet Cleaner XL for PC uses Mainconcept
The MAC Discreet Cleaner is a different product.

New versions could differ.

[BJ_M]

new one is different - so they tell me ..

[Soopafresh]

If you're going to spend the $$$, consider buying a fast machine (she kept her motor clean, she was the best damn woman that I...) and Canopus Procoder, which is an excellent deal for the money. If your budget is 2 grand, you'll be able to afford a peppy AMD 64 FX or Pentium 4 3.4 +
and drop $400 for Procoder. Procoder does a terrific job on HD material as well.

With the next wave of encoders around the corner (HD DVD players are supposed to be the hot gift for Xmas 2005), MPEG2 will begin her slow decline into history. Seems like it makes the most sense to use a good PC and a software solution and stay versatile.

[edDV]

...

you'll be able to afford a peppy AMD 64 FX or Pentium 4 3.4 +
and drop $400 for Procoder.

...

Plus think of all the other things a fast computer can be used for...
A hardware encoder will be idle 99.99% of the time and will depreciate fast.

[BJ_M]

like a hardware based NLE - soon outdated ussually