Speed cameras...

[Cobra]

So, speed cameras. Do you guys think they are a good thing, or just another way for the government to make money from road users?


(a standard UK GATSO speedtrap)

I can see how they can be good in 30mph zones where strict enforcement is required to prevent pedestrian injury/death but out on the open road, placed in locations where they are most likely to trap road users who exceed the speed limit by accident is not on. Examples being cameras placed at the crest of a hill, or when they change the speed limit from 60 to 30mph on a corner and have a speed camera just around that corner so you have to brake extremely hard to comply.

Should they be scrapped, the strategy revised or keep them as they are? Anyone here want more of them?

Debate time!

Cobra

[bugster]

I hate the things with a vengeance. I see the need to curb speed in some places but this is not the way to do it. Fines from these things are increasing every month, yet there is no evidence to show they actually reduce accident or injury rates. In fact there is some evodence that suggests in some places they actually make things worse!

Also, the Police spend too much money on these devices meaning thay have nothing left for patrol cars. Without patrol cars how do you catch people driving dangerously and breaking traffic laws other than speeding, many of which are offences much more likely to cause an accident than doing 35mph in a 30 limit!

The number of uninsured motorists on British roads is also a big problem that Cameras do not address. Insurance in the UK is so high (as you know) prtly due to cover losses caused by uninsured drivers. A 25 year old with no no-claims bonus can easily be expected to pay nearly £1000 pouns a year in insurance (just for third party cover) depending on the car and where you live. This is often more than the value of the cars they drive. And the average fine for driving without insurance? About £300. Where is the sense in that?

No, speed cameras are a cop-out by the authorities. They can claim to be tackling speed whilst filling the coffers of the local police forces and the Exchequer.

[Cobra]

People caught driving with no insurance should have their licence removed for a year. That would be a working penalty. If they are caught again, they are banned from driving for good, and their car taken away and sold to compensate the Government and the Police for their troubles.

That would go a little of the way to removing the pressure to make money from speed traps, don't you think?

[VCDHunter]

People caught driving with no insurance should have their licence removed for a year. That would be a working penalty. If they are caught again, they are banned from driving for good, and their car taken away and sold to compensate the Government and the Police for their troubles.

That would go a little of the way to removing the pressure to make money from speed traps, don't you think?

If people drive without insurance, what makes you think they wouldn't drive without a license ?

Taking away peoples cars ? Well the courts are full enough already so I suppose chucking a load of motorists in there wouldn't make much difference. But unless your stopping people in mercs and BMWs I cant see you making much money there. It nows costs people to scrap cars as well so you may end up losing money.

I say stick with speed cameras and keep raking in the cash from the sheep, christ if you can't stick to a speed limit maybe you should give people a bus timetable.

[adam]

I'm not sure if they even have those in America. That is stupid. Sometimes you need to speed just for a few seconds to get around a swerving driver, or to make your exit. Or like was already mentioned, even the most cautious driver can speed for a bit during a quick speed limit change.

Now cameras on stop lights is another thing. That is a good idea because so many people blatantly run lights and its not the type of thing you can frequently do on accident if you are being observant. I hate people that run red lights. It slows everyone down alot more than the time it saves that one person.

[zzyzzx]

Just get the license plate spray that messes up the photos and don't worry about it.

http://www.photoradarspray.com/

[VCDHunter]

I'm not sure if they even have those in America. That is stupid. Sometimes you need to speed just for a few seconds to get around a swerving driver, or to make your exit. Or like was already mentioned, even the most cautious driver can speed for a bit during a quick speed limit change.

You have the officers with speed guns though, don't you.

Now cameras on stop lights is another thing. That is a good idea because so many people blatantly run lights and its not the type of thing you can frequently do on accident if you are being observant. I hate people that run red lights. It slows everyone down alot more than the time it saves that one person.

Those camera stop lights are a great idea.

[bugster]

Just get the license plate spray that messes up the photos and don't worry about it.

http://www.photoradarspray.com/

They either:
A- don't work or
B- Do work and will get you into more trouble than speeding!

[bugster]

Red Light Cameras are fin, I have no trouble with them as they can only be sited at red lights and not used indiscrimantley to raise money.

The biggest problem with speed cameras is that they cannot discriminate between a safe driver just a little over the limit (and yes, I do know the trigger values have a margin built in) and a drunk swerving all over the road. More police on the roads would stop a lot more dangerous drivers than speed cameras ever will.

[canadateck]

Just get the license plate spray that messes up the photos and don't worry about it.

http://www.photoradarspray.com/

I used somthing like this when I was living in Calgary ,but it was Plastic and you cant see it unless you walk up to the car, Half the time in Calgary the car or truck that has the camera is on the side of the road with the cop IN the car, and when People would see the car they would slow down and this can cause more problems then just getting the ticket.

[Conquest10]

Those taffic light cameras are a great thing. i just wish they had more of them. Last night I was almost run over by this guy that ran a red light. It wasn't like the light had just changed form yellow to red, it had actually been red for like two seconds.

[BJ_M]

Just get the license plate spray that messes up the photos and don't worry about it.

http://www.photoradarspray.com/

I used somthing like this when I was living in Calgary ,but it was Plastic and you cant see it unless you walk up to the car, Half the time in Calgary the car or truck that has the camera is on the side of the road with the cop IN the car, and when People would see the car they would slow down and this can cause more problems then just getting the ticket.

ive seen accidents happen because of this ...

photo rader was outlawed in ontario , but they now do have the red light cameras .... only thing is thy give out tickets for being IN the intersection as the light turns (there is a delay btw here, each way is delayed) which is nuts if you drove in bumper to bumper traffic in toronto and trying to make a turn .. only way to do it is on a yellow ...

[canadateck]

I dont think these would go over well In Montreal , though I'm not sure if they have them. In Montreal if you are not doing 130 in a 90 zone you would be lucky to get home alive. Try asking someone there to let you in for a lane change,you almost have to ram them.

[VCDHunter]

I can't believe anyone hasn't crashed after being blinded by those speed cameras - the flash is quite bright and some of fuckers are facing you.

[bugster]

I can't believe anyone hasn't crashed after being blinded by those speed cameras - the flash is quite bright and some of fuckers are facing you.

The ones facing you do not use Flash for that very reason. I think they use IR.

[VCDHunter]

I can't believe anyone hasn't crashed after being blinded by those speed cameras - the flash is quite bright and some of fuckers are facing you.

The ones facing you do not use Flash for that very reason. I think they use IR.

They may not be facing the offender but they are facing oncoming traffic in the other lane.

[Ironballs]

http://www.photoradarspray.com/

Does this stuff really work, or is it up there with penis enhancement pills?

[bugster]

I can't believe anyone hasn't crashed after being blinded by those speed cameras - the flash is quite bright and some of fuckers are facing you.

The ones facing you do not use Flash for that very reason. I think they use IR.

They may not be facing the offender but they are facing oncoming traffic in the other lane.

Very true, I didn't think of it like that

[bigmicka]

just be thankfull you dont live in Australia, my state Victoria has the worst radar system for drivers. it is blatant revenue raising for the state. so much so that the current government changed the amount of lenience on your speed from 10% to 5%. so just say you were in a 50km zone (31.05mph) you will get booked if you are driving at 52.5km (32.6mph) giving you all of a split milimeter on your speed dial to go over, to break the law.
i have had two speeding tickets this year. doing 54 (33.5mph) and 57 (35.4mph) in a 50 zone.

Ok doing 57 i admit i broke the law and am willing to pay the fine but 54? give me a break will ya. how much difference is there in 4kmh (2.5mph)

mic

[jackal70058]

Wouldn't know much about them. Here in Louisiana, it is illegal to use a camera to ticket someone. I know they had red light cameras in Harahan, but they were all removed after the law is in place.

As for the photoradarspray, I don't know if it works or not. As we not have ticket cameras here, I don't know if it works. Fox 8 tested Photoblocker spray, I beleive is similar to what someone said earlier (http://www.phantomplate.com) but I never used it because as I said we don't have the camera. They tested the spray at the airport and the CCC toll booth, but they cameras don't use flash so it doesn't works. Only works for camras that flash.

When I was in the UK, took a mini-cab to Stantead Airport. He went faster than I have ever go on road. Every time he gets to a camera, (they are yellow on the backs, and the camera range is painted on the road) he slowed down, and once his is out he speed back up again. Reminds me of driving on the Causeway. Slow down by the crossovers and that hump with the antenna thing, and then speed back up.

[Conquest10]

There's a thing you can buy. Not sure what its made out of, probably plastic. It goes on top of your plates. Unless you look at the plates head on, they are invisble. So if a cop pulls up behind or in front of you, they see your plates normally. Cameras on the side of the road or on lights cannot see it.

[BJ_M]

There's a thing you can buy. Not sure what its made out of, probably plastic. It goes on top of your plates. Unless you look at the plates head on, they are invisible. So if a cop pulls up behind or in front of you, they see your plates normally. Cameras on the side of the road or on lights cannot see it.

doesnt work .. for sure -- they tested that also .... they (CBC) tested about 10 things that are sold to prevent photorader from working and non of them worked .. one of the sprays came closest -- bu they just hit a switch and it showed right up (negative of the capture)

[jimmalenko]

just be thankfull you dont live in Australia, my state Victoria has the worst radar system for drivers. it is blatant revenue raising for the state. so much so that the current government changed the amount of lenience on your speed from 10% to 5%.

Just to back that up, I'm also in Victoria and the Australian standard for manufacturing says that the speedos can have up to 10% variance and still meet the compliance standard, as bigmicka rightfully points out, but the speed cameras and radar guns only have a tolerance of 3%. Which of course means that your car can be fully compliant to the standard, yet you can get nabbed for doing 55 in a 50 zone even when your speedo reads 50 spot on. IMO it's grossly unfair, and that the police should only be able to prosecute as far as the standard allows. I'd like to see someone stick it to them in court and see how they go.

[VCDHunter]

I can't believe anyone hasn't crashed after being blinded by those speed cameras - the flash is quite bright and some of fuckers are facing you.

The ones facing you do not use Flash for that very reason. I think they use IR.

They may not be facing the offender but they are facing oncoming traffic in the other lane.

Very true, I didn't think of it like that

I've had people in the next lane to me on a dual carrigeway get flashed and even though its behind you it's still quite off putting.

[pbhalerao]

I support camera at traffic signals. The rest should be policed. A camera cannot identify someone driving within limit but driving dangerously all the same (cutting lanes, etc.)

I suppose this debate started after my post here:

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1233868#1233868

I honestly feel that speed cameras are revenue earning machinery than any honest intention of cutting down speed, ensuring safety, etc.

A police patrol will be more appropriate on hiways and besides will also ensure employment opportunities.

[bugster]

I have just read this interesting article on the use and accuracy of speed cameras in the UK.

[vitualis]

I agree with the Aussies above.

The fixed speed cameras are an absolute PITA. What I hate the most are the fixed speed cameras in variable speed zones (e.g., 40 km/h at certain times and 50 km/h at others). If you let your concentration slip just a bit and go through at say 45 km/h, you'll get booked.



Regards.

[offline]

Aussies, in particular, those living in Victoria and NSW, experience some of the most punitive car laws in the world. One of the few places worse is Japan. It is not only the red eye thieves (traffic cameras) but also the parking laws. Both state and local governments rely on the 500 million plus (yes I said 500 Million plus!) they get each year from traffic based fines.

Strangely enough the TAC in both states will likely fight you tooth and bone in court if you claim damages due to injury in a traffic accident. Don't expect to pay your medical bills through third party insurance.

**In 2004, the state received $315 million in fines revenue (does not include local councils) which was down 58 million due to the removal of some faulty cameras.

It was also reported that a massive 75% of total fines (includes court fines) remained as outstanding debt from people who had not yet, or refused so far, to pay fines over the past
12 months.

Add state fuel tax, toll tax, registration and compliance fees and
both states each get over a billion dollars. This happens to be just
not quite enough to pay for state government pollies, their free cars, subsidized
air travel, subsidized food and wine, heating and cooling costs, etc etc.

end rant.

** Victoria July 2003 - July 2004

[Cobra]

I suppose this debate started after my post here:

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1233868#1233868

Spot on, mate! I thought it would be an interesting thread by itself, so I started it.

[pbhalerao]

If states are heavily dependant upon revenue from roads, then there are other options such as tolls (though everyone hates paying tolls), increase road tax, cess on petrol/gas/diesel, etc. OK, I admit that all these will be heavily resented; I will probably vote against the government which did that. But at least these options are much more transparent.

On the other hand, I would like to have proven statistics that speed cameras have indeed reduced traffic accidents (and not by the old adage "you can prove anything with statistics"). I have seen that drivers slow down at the approach to the camera, and immediately speed up afterwards. I doubt that this would be the case if there is a patrol car around.

Also, it has been reported that speed cameras cut down costs of the local government/council - I am sure that they do; but on the other hand are not employment creation opportunities lost? Are not unemployed people a cost to the government? Technology must suppliment humanity and replace it.