At my wits end.

[rudnicke]

Hi all. I've recently been thrust into the world of creating DVD video. My mother has forcefully asked me to convert all of her old VHS and 8mm tapes to DVD for her. Being that I'm completely new to this, I started reading vcdhelp.com about tools and such, but I ended up with more questions than answers.

I have gone out and purchased various programs and kits, and I've reached a point where I am completely stumped.

Here is my current config:

2.8 P4 Dell machine
Pinnacle Studio Deluxe v8
TMPGEnc DVD Author v1.6
Nero Burning ROM v6
Plextor PX-708A DVD Burner
RiData DVD+R 4x blank DVD's (Plextor recommended for their burner)

I have been successful in capturing video from my VCR using Pinnacle Studio Deluxe (analog). I use this kit to edit the footage and then to create a DVD Compatible MPEG2 file. I then take this file and others and use them to create a DVD with TMPGEnc DVD Author. Once the data has been created, I add it to Nero Express and burn the DVD.

I am able to play it just fine on my Sony Progressive Scan DVD player, but here is where the problem is: the VHS tape looks so much better than the video on the DVD. The DVD video is blurry, grainy in some places, and out of focus (to me it looks kinda out of focus). The VHS plays perfectly clear on the same TV.

I checked my MPEG2 encoder settings in Pinnacle, and I'm using a data rate of 6000, and my width and height are set to 720 x 480. I'll be the first to admit I'm a complete Novice, and from what I read on the vcdhelp site, this is the correct setting I need for a DVD compatible MPEG2 file.

I've exhausted my budget, and I'm against the wall now. Can anyone point out what I might be doing wrong, or where to check for problems?

Thanks,
rudnicke

[Blazey]

Sometimes capturing Mpeg on the fly produces undesirable results. It (in my experience and opinion) will never produce great video. I have easily captured 100 different ways from 100 different sources and always come back to uncompressed AVI. Can you capture uncompressed AVI or at least AVI with mild Huffy compression? If so, do that. Use VirtualDubSync as your capture software. Download TMPGEnc's encoder (the Mpeg2 is trialware so you can see if this works for you) and encode to MPEG2 as per Lordsmurf's guides. Then author as usual. If you capture your AVI uncompressed properly you should be very pleased with the results provided you have a good VCR. I'm not busy today so if you need more help post back with questions and I'll try to help as best as I can.

Oh yeah, be prepared for the large file sizes. You will ned a 160g HD for uncompressed and at least an 80 for Huffy.

[Soopafresh]

Nice job learning all of those programs. It can be a daunting process at first.

You need to determine where in the process does your video degrade.

Once you've captured, open the file in VirtualDubMod and look at the video. You can slowly scrub (scroll) through it. Look for differences between the file and the source video.

Save a copy of the file you captured. Using VirtualDubMod, compare the file to the completed DVD.

At least you'll know where you need to focus your detective work.

[nelson133]

Well, there's a learning curve to come here. I've never used the Pinnacle encoder, so I can't comment on it directly. Generally old tapes require manipulation to get the best result, and manipulation is best done on avi rather that mpg2 files.
Here's my suggestion, given that you've exhausted your funds. Unless you are using a DV device to capture, try virtualdub for capture, virtualdub or avisynth for filters (to improve output) and qunec for encoding. DVDAuthor should take you from there. When I do videotapes, I capyure at 352 by 480, this is a dvd acceptable format and is closer to native videotape resolution. All of the above programs are free, but require some self education to learn.
Is the Pinnacle Studio include your capture device? If it is a poor capture device, you may have a problem that can only be solved by more money. The easiest way to go is a standalone dvd recorder, but that's more money. There are a number people here who promote various capture solutions, some for a reasonable amount of money, do a search. My personal preference is a Canopus 100 box, not cheap but very reliable and, imho, a quality output as avi files. You have just scratched the surface and unless you use the abovementioned recorder, you got some work ahead of you. God Luck Nyah Levi

[GeorgeW]

Yes, depending on your resources (can you squeeze out a little bit more), you might find the easiest approach is a standalone dvd recorder (as already mentioned). If you have tons of tapes to do, this might be the quickest and least painful process, and you even get the DVD Recorder to use as a VCR afterwards

Yesterday, the LVW5005 was available from CompUSA for $100.00 -- they are coming down quickly, and you should be able to find a decent one under $100 in the coming weeks...

[rudnicke]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I'm trying the TMPGEnc free encoder to see if it makes a difference. I was able to create an AVI file using Pinnacle Studio. I did try VirtualDub, but it apparently isn't compatible with the capture card that came with Studio Deluxe 8.

I created the AVI file, and did a comparison between that playing on the TV from VHS tape, and what was playing on my computer using Windows Media Player. I noticed there was some difference between what was on tape and what was on the computer. What was playing on the computer was kinda fuzzy. Can cables make a difference? I'm only using a generice Video/Audio cable from Radioshack. Should I try something different?

[Blazey]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I'm trying the TMPGEnc free encoder to see if it makes a difference. I was able to create an AVI file using Pinnacle Studio. I did try VirtualDub, but it apparently isn't compatible with the capture card that came with Studio Deluxe 8.

I created the AVI file, and did a comparison between that playing on the TV from VHS tape, and what was playing on my computer using Windows Media Player. I noticed there was some difference between what was on tape and what was on the computer. What was playing on the computer was kinda fuzzy. Can cables make a difference? I'm only using a generice Video/Audio cable from Radioshack. Should I try something different?

Yes, good cables=cleaner signal, but fuzzy video I don't think would be a problem. What resolution are you capturing your AVI at? The file should be about 130 gigs for an hour and a half movie. If it is much less, you are not at full resolution, thus the loss in quality.

[rudnicke]

I think I'm going to have to buy a different capture card. I took at look at the Pinnacle Studio 8 software, and there isn't really any way to set the capture resolution (other than the size which is set to 720x480 with a framerate of 29.97).

[MOVIEGEEK]

I gave up capturing analog,the picture quality was always glassy and fuzzy.I now use a camcorder with analog passthrough via firewire and the picture quality is excellent.If you don't have a camcorder you could also use an analog to digital converter such as a Canopus ADVC-100.
I capture DV-AVI(13GB/hr) and use Ulead VideoStudio to author and make menus.

[pbar]

A capture device which only has one resolution? That's a new one on me. Are you sure there isn't an option to change the capture resolution? There always is! A standalone DVD recorder is by far the best way to go. You simply plug the video into it, click play and click record. (Well, more or less). It will save you countless hours and be of excellent quality.

[presto]

I have been successful in capturing video from my VCR using Pinnacle Studio Deluxe (analog). I use this kit to edit the footage and then to create a DVD Compatible MPEG2 file. I then take this file and others and use them to create a DVD with TMPGEnc DVD Author. Once the data has been created, I add it to Nero Express and burn the DVD.

I think your video is getting encoded to mpg twice. There is a very easy test to see if I am right:

---Capture a few minutes of video with Pinnacle using it's standard DVD setting. Now just burn it to DVD and check the quality. Don't do anything to it. Just put that mpg into Tmpgenc DVD Author and make a DVD. Let Tmpgenc DVD Author burn it too.

Now look at the quality. If it is good then your problem is in the editing process and will be easy to correct.

(You could just capture, author and burn with Pinnacle but I am worried that it will re-encode the video if you don't make the output settings match the settings you captured at. It is easy to tell. It takes a long time to re-encode. If the bar moves very slowly it is re-encoding if it skips around it is not. Just use Tmpgenc DVD Author for this test. It will not re-encode your video since you are capturing it at DVD settings).

If you do this test and the video is crummy then you have a real problem because it is not the program (Pinnacle does a fine job of capturing) and it is not the authoring (Tmpgenc DVD author does not re-encode your video).

[presto]

think I'm going to have to buy a different capture card. I took at look at the Pinnacle Studio 8 software, and there isn't really any way to set the capture resolution (other than the size which is set to 720x480 with a framerate of 29.97).

I don't think this is correct. I'm not sure what you are looking at. When you hit settings you would then use the drop down box to choose custum and then change the resolution. Any way don't worry about it now. Just capture at standard DVD which as you say is 6000. That's more than enough resolution.

[Heywould3]

ive tried the same and aside from capturing to raw AVI then converting the only way i was able to get good results is to use a resolution of 352x240 that is still DVD compliant. use a high bitrate as you have then compare.. i think you'll find that that will give you better pictures.. . more bits per pixel available. give it a shot.(btw.. that resolution is closer to the actual res of VHS anyway..) for the 8mm.. your best bet is to get a "telecine box" you can find some cheap ones sometimes on ebay.. 30bux or so.. not the big machines that cost thousands.. but work great for what they are.just a box with a small opaque screen and a mirror and places to put the cam.

[Bob W]

Save yourself a lot of grief and just buy a DVD recorder. I have seen them for as low as $150.

[broadway]

Save yourself a lot of grief and just buy a DVD recorder. I have seen them for as low as $150.

Well, rudnicke may want to peruse the DVD recorders sub-forum first
to see what other problems he/she may be in for.

But for me I have no regrets about using a standalone DVD recorder.

[anzimike]

If you have a large number to do, I agree standalone is best way to go. You may have to re-author on computer if you want quality menus or editing, and for better compatability. Also make sure you mother's standalone will play burned dvd's. Perhaps mother can split the cost of the standalone?

[Heywould3]

still got the 8mm to deal with

[broadway]

still got the 8mm to deal with

rudnicke probably is using the 8mm camcorder to play the tapes
so instead of plugging the camcorder into the Pinnacle device
plug the camcorder into the standalone DVD recorder

[rudnicke]

I've been doing some testing, but I'm still getting the same results. I can only assume that it's my hardware/cables or VCR.

I used Pinnacle to capture an AVI file (no editing, or anything else). I then used TMPGEnc Plus to enconde to MPEG2 file and created a DVD with TMPGEnc DVD Author. To avoid ruining too many discs, I did a test play using Cyberlink PowerDVD 6.

Using the same raw AVI file I created with Pinnacle, I compressed using a bitrate of 8000, and using two different WxH settings (720x480 and 352x480). Quality wise, they both produced the same results. I even employed Noise Reduction and Ghost reduction filters, and still had the same effect (blurry or grainy).

I'm beginning to really wonder if my hardware is not to blame. I know Pinnacle makes decent equipment, but my cables are just generic radioshack av cables (not even gold plated), and my VCR was only $50.

I would consider going the stand-alone DVD recorder path, but I don't really know if there will be any difference in quality by doing the recording that way vs this way. I've already spent my budget (plus gone over).

Thanks,
rudnicke

[ebenton]

I'm not trying to urinate in anybody's Cheerios, but I have had good success capturing video from my VCR with my ATI AIW Radeon 7500 and the copy of Sonic MyDVD that came with my Sony DRU-510A DVD burner.
I have 2-year-old Pentium 4 1.8 Ghz 762 MB RAM Hewlett-Packard PC.

Sonic MyDVD has Good, better, best quality settings and I don't drop many frames. The VCR is just a cheap, monaural VHS machine.

I have also used "Movies to CD & DVD e-version" successfully with this same ATI card and DVD burner.

Sometimes using 47 different programs to do something that can be done with one is more trouble than it is worth.

[broadway]

I'm beginning to really wonder if my hardware is not to blame. I know Pinnacle makes decent equipment, but my cables are just generic radioshack av cables (not even gold plated), and my VCR was only $50.

but you write that the video played on the VCR looks fine on the TV.
I'm not sure it is fair to blame it on the av cables or the VCR

have you gone over to the Pinnacle website forum?

[rudnicke]

I have narrowed the problem down to the encoding of the MPEG2 file.

I switched to a 4 head VCR, purchased some shielded AV cables and captured about 10 minutes of video. I took the AVI file that was produced by Pinnacle Studio 8 and encoded it to an MPEG2 file using TMPGEnc Plus 2.5. Once the file was created, I used the TMPGEnc DVD Author to create the DVD files, and then I burnt them to disc using Nero Express.

With the new VCR, the picture came out somewhat clearer, but the colors were all off (reds were very saturated, brightness was dimmed). The picture on the DVD is darker than the picture on the VCR.

I also purchased a stand alone DVD recorder, which did a good job of transferring from VHS to DVD. Almost identical pictures when you compare the two sources. However, this isn't really the way I want to go as I promised that I would add menus, titles and background images.

What could be causing the saturation and dimness during the encoding process. I've been looking at documentation, but I'm not finding anything. I've messed with increasing the video bitrate, changing from interlace to non-interlace but I'm not having any luck getting a good encode from TMPGEnc.

Thanks,
rudnicke

[tmh]

Have you tried encoding with Pinnacle? Normally, I wouldn't expect it to be better than TMPGenc, but who knows - give it a try.

Are you actually burning to DVD and TV testing it? What do you burn with?

Have you captured in anything but Pinnacle? Have you viewed the file before encoding? Is it identical to the VCR image?

[Bob W]

"I also purchased a stand alone DVD recorder, which did a good job of transferring from VHS to DVD. Almost identical pictures when you compare the two sources. However, this isn't really the way I want to go as I promised that I would add menus, titles and background images."

You can still do that with programs like NeoDVD Plus (which will input VOB files) or a similar program. Thats exactly how I added titles, a menu, background images, and chapter points to al of my old home family movies. I recorded to DVDRW from VHS and then used NeoDVD Plus to do the editing and the new burn to DVDR.

[rudnicke]

Have you tried encoding with Pinnacle? Normally, I wouldn't expect it to be better than TMPGenc, but who knows - give it a try.

Are you actually burning to DVD and TV testing it? What do you burn with?

Have you captured in anything but Pinnacle? Have you viewed the file before encoding? Is it identical to the VCR image?

I tried encoding with Pinnacle, but the results were worse than what I get with TMPGEnc Plus.

I burn to disc each time and try it in my Sony DVD player. I burn with a Plextor PX-708A drive using RiData 4x DVD+R media.

I haven't tried capturing with anything besides Pinnacle (apparently the Pinnacle board I use is only recognized by their software).

[anzimike]

Great! Now that you have a recorder, record your moves to rw or ram media, transfer to computer and then use this video as the source in your authoring program (TMPGEnc DVD Author (TDA) is easiest to learn) to create your menus, titles and background images and burn to -r/+r media, then give to Mom. I'm not sure how familiar you are with TDA, simply open new project, import dvd video, browse to rw/ram drive (or captured files on HDD for faster editing, chaptering) and you are on your way. For more creative menu options give dvd-lab a try. Have fun!

[presto]

Grrrr. Capturing in AVI is a big waste of time in your case. Just capture in DVD quality mpg with Pinnacle. People who tell you to capture in avi are living in the past. You'll never get all those VHS and 8mm tapes done if you capture avi and then encode.

It doesn't sound like you tried my suggestion. I don't blame you, your getting a lot of advice that is all different. Please, just as a fovor to me, capture a few minutes in DVD quality mpg with Pinnacle and author and burn it with Tmpgenc DVD Author and then watch it on your TV and tell me how the picture looks.

I do what you are trying to do, daily. I capture VHS with Pinnacle and author and burn with Tmpgenc DVD Author. Great looking video.

[rudnicke]

I have been successful in capturing video from my VCR using Pinnacle Studio Deluxe (analog). I use this kit to edit the footage and then to create a DVD Compatible MPEG2 file. I then take this file and others and use them to create a DVD with TMPGEnc DVD Author. Once the data has been created, I add it to Nero Express and burn the DVD.

I think your video is getting encoded to mpg twice. There is a very easy test to see if I am right:

---Capture a few minutes of video with Pinnacle using it's standard DVD setting. Now just burn it to DVD and check the quality. Don't do anything to it. Just put that mpg into Tmpgenc DVD Author and make a DVD. Let Tmpgenc DVD Author burn it too.

Now look at the quality. If it is good then your problem is in the editing process and will be easy to correct.

(You could just capture, author and burn with Pinnacle but I am worried that it will re-encode the video if you don't make the output settings match the settings you captured at. It is easy to tell. It takes a long time to re-encode. If the bar moves very slowly it is re-encoding if it skips around it is not. Just use Tmpgenc DVD Author for this test. It will not re-encode your video since you are capturing it at DVD settings).

If you do this test and the video is crummy then you have a real problem because it is not the program (Pinnacle does a fine job of capturing) and it is not the authoring (Tmpgenc DVD author does not re-encode your video).

Sorry presto, I forgot to respond.

I looked in the capture section of Pinnacle, but found no way of capturing straight to MPG. Under settings/Capture Format the only selection I have is Full DV Quality.

[presto]

I looked in the capture section of Pinnacle, but found no way of capturing straight to MPG. Under settings/Capture Format the only selection I have is Full DV Quality.

I have a Dazzle150 which is an external box which allows you to capture mpg. Before I got that I used my internal ATI card which also let me capture mpg. I lost track of the fact that not everyone can capture in mpg.

I agree with a previous poster who said that now that you have a DVD recorder you can use Tmpgenc DVD Author (or some other program) to import that video and add your menus etc.

Good Luck

[rudnicke]

Thanks to all who have endeavoured to help me resolve these issues. It seems that a stand-alone DVD recorder is the way to go.

Now, for a couple of more questions:

(1) What would be the best purchase to get good quality DVD's from a stand-alone DVD recorder? I purchased the ILO brand at Wal-Mart. I'm very satisfied with the quality of the video on the DVD, but to get that quality, I have to use the highest quality setting which reduces the amount of video per 4.7GB disc to 1 hour.

(2) Is there a recorder out there that will do the same, but allow for more time on the disc?

Thanks,
rudnicke