Car troubles

[Lucifers_Ghost]

Got a quick automotive question. I checked the places that I know of online and couldnt find anything. A lot of you are wicked smart, so show me what you got.

I have a 2000 Sunfire GT. My headlights dont work. I checked the fuses. Fine. The bulbs are fine as well. I changed the signal/dimmer switch on the side of the steering wheel. Problem still exists. Strange thing is, that the fog lights still work if I put the dimmer switch to parking lights. If I put the switch to headlights, fog lights and headlights go off. Taillights and reverse lights work fine. Its JUST the headlights.

So whats the deal? Is it a relay some place? The wiring harness for the lights?

Let me know your thoughts and ideas friends.

Thanks,

LG

[hech54]

Has it been in for any other kind of service recently?

[Lucifers_Ghost]

Beforehand, no. BUT, when the lights stopped working, I brought it in. They did an hour of tests and told me it was the dimmer switched. I changed it and it was still the same. So I brought it back for a refund on the part and the hour of labour but dont want them to do anymore because they obviously dont know what the problem is.

[Shocker Milwaukee]

Is it a relay some place?

My first guess. Is your check engine light on (it's connected to all things electrical)?

[hech54]

They don't like getting dirty...they just want to plug something into the diagnostic outlet.
See if the headlights have the same ground. Hopefully GM is grounding their headlights NEAR the headlights somewhere. If it was just the headlights on my car....I'd look for a bad ground in the engine compartment first thing....especially a car getting up in years like yours.

[Lucifers_Ghost]

Is it a relay some place?

My first guess. Is your check engine light on (it's connected to all things electrical)?

DOH. Son of a .. forgot to mention that. My check engine light goes on and off periodically. However, its been doing that for about 4 months. The headlights just stopped working this week. So that MAY be related but I dont think so (but what do I know .. im the one asking all the questions eh? lol).

As well, the "service" light comes on every few days as well. Stays on for a bit, then goes off for another week. Then the same thing over and over. I havent noticed any problems with the car performance wise. Gas mileage is still good. Stuff like that.

[Lucifers_Ghost]

They don't like getting dirty...they just want to plug something into the diagnostic outlet.
See if the headlights have the same ground. Hopefully GM is grounding their headlights NEAR the headlights somewhere. If it was just the headlights on my car....I'd look for a bad ground in the engine compartment first thing....especially a car getting up in years like yours.

I hate dealer mechanics.

Ok. I"ll check that gound issue out for sure.

But a car getting up in years? Its only 4.5 years old I thought it was still new :P Only has 78,000 kms on it. Not toooo bad I suppose.

[hudsonf]

I would check :
1. Ground
2. A break in the hot wire to the lights
3. Headlight on-off switch

[Lucifers_Ghost]

I would check :
1. Ground
2. A break in the hot wire to the lights
3. Headlight on-off switch

1. I'll definately check that.
2. Hot wire? What the hell is that?
3. Already changed that.

[hech54]

I hate dealer mechanics.

Ok. I"ll check that gound issue out for sure.

But a car getting up in years? Its only 4.5 years old I thought it was still new :P Only has 78,000 kms on it. Not toooo bad I suppose.

Sorry...read your post wrong....that isn't TOO old...

Hot wire = the power wire.....opposite of the ground wire.

[hudsonf]

The hot wire is the wire that supplies 12 volts to the headlights. Did you change the dimmer switch,the on-off switch switch or both. From your post you said you changed the dimmer switch. Hopefully it will be something easy to fix. Electrical problems can be a real pain in the butt.

[Lucifers_Ghost]

I hate dealer mechanics.

Ok. I"ll check that gound issue out for sure.

But a car getting up in years? Its only 4.5 years old I thought it was still new :P Only has 78,000 kms on it. Not toooo bad I suppose.

Sorry...read your post wrong....that isn't TOO old...

Hot wire = the power wire.....opposite of the ground wire.

hehheh .. its not TOO old, just a piece of crap. I have less problems with my '79 Camaro and I have put almost no money into that car. They dont make em like they used to.

Power wire. Gotcha

[Lucifers_Ghost]

The hot wire is the wire that supplies 12 volts to the headlights. Did you change the dimmer switch,the on-off switch switch or both. From your post you said you changed the dimmer switch. Hopefully it will be something easy to fix. Electrical problems can be a real pain in the butt.

I changed the on-off/signal switch. My bad. Wrong terminology

Im hoping too. There isnt much left to check really. My uncle who is an electrician (albeit 3000 miles away) said it would most likely be a relay but he said he knows nothing about cars so he may be way off.

EDIT: Lets assume its a relay for a moment, how on earth would I check something like that?

[hudsonf]

My son had a old mercury that melted the wire plug to the light switch. It was a easy fix except for the fact it was in the winter and I don't have a garage to work in.

[hudsonf]

To find a relay you would need a wiring diagram of the car. You may be able to follow the wire but I doubt it. Are you saying you only have one switch fo the dimmer and head light switch? A lot of headlight switches have a built in circuit breaker.

[hech54]

That and he has fog/driving lights. If they are factory ones the fogs will turn off when and if he hits his high beams/brights. GM never really understood that concept very well I'm afraid.
Japanese cars did a double on that potential problem and made the lights go off automatically AND put an on/off switch for the driving/fog lights as well....smart little buggers...
I've personally never replaced a circuit breaker on any of my vehicles so I check for that crap last.

[hech54]

Lets assume its a relay for a moment, how on earth would I check something like that?

Find it....then replace it...much easier...
Those Haynes car manuals go into indepth detail about that crap...usually involves "install jumper wire here and here...then disconnect this wire here...then stand on your hands while whistling She Blinded me With Science".....aint worth it if the relay is cheap enough..

[Lucifers_Ghost]

To find a relay you would need a wiring diagram of the car. You may be able to follow the wire but I doubt it. Are you saying you only have one switch fo the dimmer and head light switch? A lot of headlight switches have a built in circuit breaker.

I am getting the terminology right, the on-off/signal switch is on the left side of the steering column. That I changed. The dimmer switch is for the interior and dash lights. That is on the dash board. I didnt change that.

[Lucifers_Ghost]

Lets assume its a relay for a moment, how on earth would I check something like that?

Find it....then replace it...much easier...
Those Haynes car manuals go into indepth detail about that crap...usually involves "install jumper wire here and here...then disconnect this wire here...then stand on your hands while whistling She Blinded me With Science".....aint worth it if the relay is cheap enough..

lol .. yes, I have a Haynes manual for my Camaro. Its a wonderful thing. I was thinking about getting the same thing for this car, and based on your post, I will definately get it. And I hope this new book dont want me to dance. Im a white boy. I aint got no moves :P

[BJ_M]

it would be just as easy at this point to install a new toggle switch , relay and new wire to them .... take about 20 - 30 min. and about $20 in parts ..

use really good wire - not some cheap zipcord , solder and seal all connections .. use the switched power from teh fuse block as supply so the lights go off when you turn the car off .. dont use radio shack relays - junk .

[BJ_M]

if you used a 30amp rated switch, you don't need the relay - but this is not a very good idea if the wire shorts out ...

[Lucifers_Ghost]

it would be just as easy at this point to install a new toggle switch , relay and new wire to them .... take about 20 - 30 min. and about $20 in parts ..

use really good wire - not some cheap zipcord , solder and seal all connections .. use the switched power from teh fuse block as supply so the lights go off when you turn the car off .. dont use radio shack relays - junk .

I actually did this same sort of thing in my camaro with my reverse lights. The wire mount on the transmission for the reverse lights broke so I just put a toggle on the dash.

Im not so sure I want to do this with this car as I might want to sell it eventually. Might hurt the value just a tad with a toggle switch on the dash lol

[hudsonf]

I'm still not sure I understand your switches. Most vehicles have a switch that turns your lights on and off including your dash lights and interior light. Plus they have a dimmer switch that operates your high and low beams. I don't know if everything in your car works off of one switch. I have never seen one switch do everything but I guess it's possible. If you have automatic lights you may have a bad sensor. Either way getting a manual that covers the wiring diagram is a good idea.

[hudsonf]

Almost forgot to mention this. If it is a relay chances are it would be under the hood.

[Lucifers_Ghost]

I'm still not sure I understand your switches. Most vehicles have a switch that turns your lights on and off including your dash lights and interior light. Plus they have a dimmer switch that operates your high and low beams. I don't know if everything in your car works off of one switch. I have never seen one switch do everything but I guess it's possible. If you have automatic lights you may have a bad sensor. Either way getting a manual that covers the wiring diagram is a good idea.

Ok. The dimmer switch is on the same on-off/signal switch. If I "pull" the switch towards me, the high beams go on. Do it again, they go off. The on-off for the lights is a rotating knob on the end of the "arm" for lack of a better term. The knob has 3 settings (off, fog/parking lights, headlights).

I just had the terminologies wrong. To me, the dimmer switch is what controls the interior and dash lights. My bad.

Hope this clarifies a little

[zzyzzx]

Exactly how did you determine that both bulbs are good? I've had two go out at the same time.

[Lucifers_Ghost]

Exactly how did you determine that both bulbs are good? I've had two go out at the same time.

I checked them by taking out the whole light assembly and taking out the bulb. They are dual bulbs (both high and low beam). Both filaments are still intact on both bulbs.

[hudsonf]

Your not wrong. Both switches dim or brighten lights. They're just different lights. Hope you get your lights working. Cars can be such a pain.

[zzyzzx]

That's not the best way to test them. If you hooked up 12V to both sets of filaments then I'd be positive. The last few light bulbs I changed on my car had intact filaments, but didn't work. Is it possiblt to test them in another car or put in a known working bulb?

I know it seems improbably that both went out at the same time, or that one went and you didn't notice until they both went out. But it did happen to me. I was confused, but I put in one of my spares and it worked so I knoew it was the bulbs. That and the night before someone backed onto me so my guess is that might have pushed my fragile 9.5 year old light bulbs over the edge.

[Lucifers_Ghost]

That's not the best way to test them. If you hooked up 12V to both sets of filaments then I'd be positive. The last few light bulbs I changed on my car had intact filaments, but didn't work. Is it possiblt to test them in another car or put in a known working bulb?

I know it seems improbably that both went out at the same time, or that one went and you didn't notice until they both went out. But it did happen to me. I was confused, but I put in one of my spares and it worked so I knoew it was the bulbs. That and the night before someone backed onto me so my guess is that might have pushed my fragile 9.5 year old light bulbs over the edge.

Fair enough. I suppose I could go to Canadian Tire and buy spare lights to test them. Thats not difficult at all. Good suggestion actually. I just figured a visual check would be fine