Drivers for DV cam

[fdonline]

Hi

If i capture via analog with my capture card and not via firewire card does the DV cam or hi 8 require drivers to be used before using it or are cameras plu n play?

Cheers

[daamon]

Hi fdonline,

I don't really know the answer to your question, but my belief is that you're much better off using a firewire card with a DV cam (and, possibly the Hi8, though I don't know for sure) as you're not really capturing from a DV cam it's just a transfer.

A DV cam is one type of storage medium - like a floppy disk is a kind of storage medium. Using firewire is just copying the data from the DV cam to your hard drive just like you copy from a floppy disk.

Use WinDV for DV cam transferring.

[edDV]

Hi

If i capture via analog with my capture card and not via firewire card does the DV cam or hi 8 require drivers to be used before using it or are cameras plu n play?

Cheers

Not clear but here is my take.
If you capture analog then the source is no longer an issue. You are left with the format you captured.

[fdonline]

Hi

So what you say is when i connect to S-Video on my capture card and start capturing the drivers for the DV wont be needed?

Cheers

Clive

[Skith]

When using a capture card, drivers will probably be necessary. I believe that most capture cards compress/alter the video that is being input. This most likely is a lossy compression, and will degrade the quality of your video. (I am not to familiar with capture cards, some may not recompress the input.)

FireWire is a proven method of moving (copying) video from (DV) camcorder to PC with no loss in quality. Most modern operating systems have firewire native firewire support (no 3rd party drivers will be needed). A program will be needed to "transfer" the video - WinDV or DVIO - and a codec may be needed for playback (I use Panasonic DV Codec)

[edDV]

Let's start over.

If you have a DV camcorder (MiniDV or Digital8), there is a fully supported process for full quality transfer of the original digital recording to the PC with no loss. You use the IEEE-1394 connection and capture the data stream into a DV-AVI (or DV-Quicktime for Mac) file.* This file will accumulate data at a rate of 13.5GB per hour which is effectively the same as what is recorded to tape.

If you a use composite or S-Video (NTSC or PAL) output from the camcorder to a capture card, then the capture card determines the quaility of the capture. A NTSC or PAL capture is always significantly worse in quality than a DV transfer and can be far worse depending on the capture card.

Some DV camcorders offer a highly compressed USB feed intended for web streaming. This is the lowest quality transfer but is optimal for web streaming.

Did this help?
Obvious question is why aren't you using DV transfer through IEEE-1394?

* The conversion to DV format is done by a hardware codec in the camcorder. The Windows or Mac OS will manage the transfer of the DV datastream from the camcorder to the computer into a file (for Windows, this is managed by DirectShow in DirectX).

The camcorder can feed live DV streams from the camera CCDs or from DV "pass-through" from analog sources. The camcorder can also play back a recorded digital stream from tape or, in the case of Digital8 format camcorders, it can play analog 8mm or Hi8 tapes through the DV codec into a live DV stream.

[thecoalman]

So what you say is when i connect to S-Video on my capture card and start capturing the drivers for the DV wont be needed?

And to answer this no you no longer need the driver for the cam since it's no longer digitally connected to the computer. It's just as if you connected a VCR. That's really irrelevant though.

As stated above transferring via firewire is essentially like copying a file to HD. Using analog (s-video,RCA) will degrade your video because the video has to be converted to analog by the cam then converted back to digital by the capture card.

Bottom line, use IEEE 1394 because there is no conversion.

[LSchafroth]

I would buy a Firewire card. I was able to get a OEM 3 port card and 6-4pin Firewire cable for $12 shipped.

LS

[fdonline]

Hi

So is it possible to capture via USB and how do i do it,is it possible also to capture with MPEG 2 realtime from USB?I cant afford to use firewire and encoding something like 26 gigs and that will take many hours to do,i have intel celeron D 2.4 and how long will that take or if im on a 3G pentium 4?

Clive

[edDV]

Does your MiniDV cam have a usb port?
Is you goal very low quality video for streaming on the web?
If not what is your goal for this video?
Do you have a capture card currently?
Does your computer have a IEEE-1394 (firewire) port?

It would be difficult to capture Mpeg2 with a Celeron 2.6 using only a software encoder, but I do it for TV captures with a 2.4 Celeron and ULead Video Studio 8* (using its built-in Mainconcept encoder). I would never consider doing it for a camcorder transfer. I would want the full picture quality and all the editing features of DV format.

If you don't currently have an analog capture card that you need to use, IEEE-1394 transfer is still the best way to do realtime MPeg2 capture. In that case the DV stream goes to the encoder instead of a file.

If Direct encoding to MPeg2 is your goal, it is best to get a hardware encoder like the PVR-250.

I would still go the IEEE-1394 route for camcorder transfers and editing.

* use only 8,000Kbps, CBR, LPCM audio. Any further compression of video or audio (e.g. MPeg2 audio) will probably result in lost frames.

[fdonline]

Hi

The problem is that if i get around 13 GB for 1 hour of DV how long will it take to encode,someone told me its many hours and i have celeron d 2.4.Do you know how long will it take on 3G Pentium 4 HT for 1 hour DV to encode to MPEG 2?The problem here is time as i need to convert many DV tapes to DVD and edit them.I cant afford the Pentium 4 at the moment.

Does the DV or Hi 8 have USB ports?And will i get dropped frames if i capture via USB with realtime MPEG 2 and how do i do it?I have Winfast TV Deluxe 2000 XP.I want to output from DV or Hi 8 to DVD.Also if i capture via analog will the picture be too degraded and can you capture analog with DV or hi 8?

What is the difference between the software and hardware encoder and is the hardware encoder on a capture card better and does it prevent dropped frames and is it better with realtime MPEG capture.

I hope you can help me on this.

[edDV]

Hi

The problem is that if i get around 13 GB for 1 hour of DV how long will it take to encode,someone told me its many hours and i have celeron d 2.4.Do you know how long will it take on 3G Pentium 4 HT for 1 hour DV to encode to MPEG 2?The problem here is time as i need to convert many DV tapes to DVD and edit them.I cant afford the Pentium 4 at the moment.

It will take approx 2-3 hrs of encoding per hour of post editied material depending on which encoder and settings you use. Celeron is just as fast as P4 at same GHz unless the encoder supports hyperthreading. Most consumer software doesn't support hyperthreading but Premiere Pro, Vegas 5, etc. do.

Does the DV or Hi 8 have USB ports? And will i get dropped frames if i capture via USB with realtime MPEG 2 and how do i do it? I have Winfast TV Deluxe 2000 XP.I want to output from DV or Hi 8 to DVD.Also if i capture via analog will the picture be too degraded and can you capture analog with DV or hi 8?

"DV or Hi 8 have USB ports?" Some new model DV cams have USB ports but only for stills and very low quality video transfers. Yours probably doesn't or you would know if you had one.

Your capture card is low end and does not have hardware MPeg encoding. Get a Hauppauge PVR-250 if you what a realtime hardware assisted capture card. I told you above how to do it with a software encoder using IEEE-1394 and the Mainconcept software encoder.

Highest picture quality will be from IEEE-1394. You can capture Hi8 to IEEE-1394 if your miniDV camera has "analog pass-though" capture feature, or if you use a Digital8 camcoder to capture the Hi8 tape.

Capture with the Winfast TV Deluxe 2000 XP will be much lower quality than using IEEE-1394 DV.

You haven't explained your editing needs. You could alternatively just get a standalone DVD recorder and forget editing.

What is the difference between the software and hardware encoder and is the hardware encoder on a capture card better and does it prevent dropped frames and is it better with realtime MPEG capture.

To capture with software realtime you would be running CPU 90-100% and hoping you don't loose frames. Your 2.6 GHz processor is just fast enough to do this. A hardware encoder (like the PVR-250) will encode MPeg2 realtime with good quality even with a slow computer.

If you are in a hurry and ready to sacrafice DV quality editing, you should buy the PVR-250 and edit in MPeg2. If you want best quality, Use IEEE-1394 transfer, edit in DV format and then encode the final program to Mpeg2. Your choice.

PS: If you don't already have software, the PVR-250 comes with limited editing and ULead DVD Movie Factory for authoring the DVD.

Of course another alternative is using some of the software and guides to the left, but if you don't have enough time for MPeg2 encoding, you probably wouldn't have enough time to learn those programs.

[fdonline]

Hi

Thanks,my editing needs are to get the DV or hi8 to DVD and i have lots of tapes to do and i cant afford encoding 3 hours of DV tape.Mainconcept told me that their software uses buffers to prevent lost frames.So is it OK if i get PVR 250 and firewire and capture in realtime will i still get dropped frames there too?I just bought Moviefactory 3 and Video studio 8.At the moment i want to capture via analogue and will the quality be that poor if captured in MPEG 2 via analog that the picture will be degraded too much if the pic is a bit ok i wont mind.

I hope to make a better understanding of this.

Cheers

Clive

[edDV]

Hi

Thanks,my editing needs are to get the DV or hi8 to DVD and i have lots of tapes to do and i cant afford encoding 3 hours of DV tape.Mainconcept told me that their software uses buffers to prevent lost frames.So is it OK if i get PVR 250 and firewire and capture in realtime will i still get dropped frames there too?I just bought Moviefactory 3 and Video studio 8.At the moment i want to capture via analogue and will the quality be that poor if captured in MPEG 2 via analog that the picture will be degraded too much if the pic is a bit ok i wont mind.
Clive

"Thanks,my editing needs are to get the DV or hi8 to DVD and i have lots of tapes to do"

So no editing, just copy to DVD.

Alternative #1: Use a DVD Recorder like a Pioneer 220-S, or Panasonic E series
https://www.videohelp.com/dvdrecorders
Minor editing can be done with a model with a disk drive.

Alternative #2 Use your Winfast TV Deluxe 2000 XP card with ULead Moviefactory 3 which uses the Mainconcept MPeg2 encoder. Attempt realtime capture (DVD MPeg2 8000Kbps, CBR, LPCM audio settings) and see if it works with your computer. Video Studio 8 also allows realtime MPeg2 capture. Author the DVD with either.

Alternative #3 Buy the PVR-250. Realtime capture with the PVR-250 in DVD full quality. Author the DVD with your ULead Moviefactory 3.

[fdonline]

Im scared that it would drop frames.Mainconcept said that my system is not that good for realtime MPEG 2 capture.How true is this?

Thank You

[edDV]

I've said several times now that your system is on the edge for realtime encoding. It may work it may choke. On a 2.4GHz Celeron here I can do 8, 000Kbps with LPCM audio with room to spare ~ave 85% CPU.

If you do realtime encoding, use the IEEE-1394 transfer for much better quality than your capture card.

Why don't you use a standalone DVD recorder if you don't want to edit?
One pass and you are done.

[fdonline]

I dont have DVD Recorder.I dont have a problem with editing,i can also edit MPEG 2.Have you ever experienced dropped frames and is MPEG 2 hardware encoder better in preventing things like dropped frames?The thing most that i runaway from is encoding DV to MPEG 2 and i cant afford it.If i buy a Pentium 4 3Ghz how long will it take?

[FulciLives]

@fdonline

Sounds as though you don't have the "time" to do it "right" which would be a FIREWIRE (aka IEEE 1394 aka i.link) transfer ... then encode to MPEG-2 DVD spec.

So the next best solution is straight to MPEG-2 DVD capture/recording. This is best done with either a stand alone DVD recorder or with something like the Hauppauge WinTV PVR-250 (which is probably the best such computer solution that doesn't cost an arm and a leg).

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[edDV]

I'm finished with this.

A DVD recorder costs about $150-250.
You say time is the most important factor not money.

You now own equipment to do it in all the ways discussed above but you don't have time to learn or experiment.

You also don't want to buy a DVD recorder so we are now going in circles.

All the information you need is above.

[fdonline]

Hi thanks for your help.i will buy the DVD Recorder but how many hours can fit on a single DVD?I hear for recording TV is 6 hours.Will i get MPEG 2 with no dropped frames?

Thanks a lot

[vhelp]

To end your circle of questions..

As suggested, look for the iLO DVDR04 @ $138 dollars at Wal-Mart.
This unit requires DVD+R and/or DVD+RW disks. If you go with the
+R disks, you'll get better results as far as speed and consistancy
goes, because the unit will not have to 'initialize' the +R disk,
(as it has to, for the +RW disks)

With the iLO and +R disks, everything is as fast as your time allows,
and real-time. No encoding on your part.

The basic setup -to- DVD +R disks are:

* READ THE MANUAL. Specially on Finalizing the disks when your recording
project is complete. Then..

iLO dvd recorder Audio/Video setup steps
* connect your iLO's RCA (or composite) cable from the iLO's Video INPUT
to the VCR's Video OUTPUT ports. ( usually looks like this (o) )

* connect your iLO's RCA audio cable from the iLO's Audio INPUT to
the VCR's Audio OUTPUT ports (red and white)

* pop in a DVD+R disk, close door. Wait for it to sense disk type, and
ready message (whatever it is spelled as)

* setup your VCR to play (press play button when both units are setup
and ready for the task)

* begin recording, by pressing the REC button on the iLO dvd recorder unit.
.. Note, be sure you've read the manual on different recording lengths (ie,
SP; EP; LP) and choose the one that fits your movie's length. Example, if
your movie is just about 2 hours, (or 90 minutes) then, set the iLO to SP mode
for your recording. (read the manual on how to)

* when movie is finished (use your best judgement) press the STOP button
on the iLO first (always stop the REC'ording first, then stop the VCR) this
way, the iLO has time to complete it's writes to the disk, and no lag time
or blue screen shows up in the recording.

* now, finalize the disk.

* you're done (give or take some more reading)

..

You might be able to pick up the Pioneer DVR-220-S unit at Wal-Mart, if it
is for $150 (rumor has it, that a user here purchased one for $150 bucks)
otherwise, it's selling for $198 bucks. If that's too much, then look
into the iLO DVDR04 model unit, for $138 at Wal-Mart also.

The above is as simple as it gets. In time, and couple that with some
good old fasion "trial 'n error", you should be a pro, and learnt some
short-cuts, etc.

-vhelp 3244