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  1. Member ann coates's Avatar
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    Is the darker picture an issue when using the component connection? Is this the best connection to use better than S-video?
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  2. Always use component video outputs from your DVD player if your TV is equipped with Y Pb Pr component inputs. That will give you the best overall picture... and is set at 0 IRE black level (so the blacks actually look black on your display, not dark grey).
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  3. Member ann coates's Avatar
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    Thank you!
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  4. Thank you lordsmurf for helping with those wonderful illustrations. I had a hard time passing my simple message about the importance of keeping the black levels always on their legal levels!


    In Europe and Asia, the analog video’s blacks are at zero voltage: 0mV PAL, 0 IRE NTSC. In North America it is 7.5 IRE. Analog video output from digital DV and DVCAM recordings are 0 IRE. Going from analog to digital and back again, if the specifications are followed, analog black goes to digital black and digital to analog. The same recording should play correctly in Japan with 0 IRE setup and in the USA with 7.5 IRE setup.

    At first glance, it sounds contradictory and even impossible, doesn’t it?

    Actually, the trick is very simple: American decks add 7.5 IRE of setup, while Japanese do not. In Japan that setting is turned OFF and in North America, that setting should be always ON. A similar setting removes this setup on incoming analog signals when they are converted from one to another standard.

    Now it is understandable why the NTSC DVD players have the same analog 7,5 IRE output like any other analog video player (VHS, SVHS, 8mm, HI8, Betacam…) and the PAL DVD recorders have 0 IRE.

    The DVD recorders sold in North America, are in compliance with the NTSC standard, are designed to be connected with the incoming analog signal of 7.5 IRE. Their internal setting removes this setup in order to make the correct digital black level of 0 IRE. This corrected analog signal is encoded and burned on a DVD disc. When the disc is played back, the decks will add 7,5 IRE to make the analog signal again compliant to the NTSC standard.

    Since the JVC (Toshiba comes to my mind too) analog inputs are designed to accept the Japanese black level standard (0 IRE), the incoming analog signal from the American players is encoded without the removal correction of 7,5 IRE. That means that the analog signal is being recorded at incorrect + 7,5 IRE instead of 0 IRE. Consequently, the recorded DVD picture is “washed out”.

    The only way to make the proper recording with these JVC DVD recorders is to use proc amp and to adjust the incoming analog signal to 0 IRE. The same “remedy” used on a Panasonic DVD recorder (or any other NTSC compliant recorder) will make the incoming analog signal out of the NTSC spec! With the automatic internal removing of the setup the black level will become negative 7,5 IRE! That is why the picture recorded this way will be “too dark”.

    If you play a DV tape (black level 0 IRE on the line output), the playback will be fine in Japan, but it will be "too dark" in North America. In order to make the correct DVD recording with NTSC compliance with the stand-alone DVD recorder you will have to add 7.5 IRE.

    I hope that this explains better the black level settings and why the results obtained from the JVC and Panasonic DVD recorders, using the same proc amp setting on both machines, are so confusing. That is why the comparative test done on these DVD recorders is incorrect and misleading.

    At the end I will repeat myself:

    If you are willing to spend extra money for a proc amp unit in order to correct something that should be corrected originally from the manufacturer (compliance with the NTSC standard), then everything is OK and you can enjoy the quality of the JVC DVD recorders in their full capacity. They are fine machines and used with the additional electronic corrector, as mentioned before, will give you excellent results. Anybody else, who doesn’t want to spend extra cash or simply doesn’t want to bother with that, should look for some other brand.
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  5. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by zorankarapancev
    Since the JVC (Toshiba comes to my mind too) analog inputs are designed to accept the Japanese black level standard (0 IRE),
    This is wrong. The JVC is set to proper levels. Pioneer too.

    Some are set to goofball stuff to. LiteOn and ILo may be some that are off by +/- 1-2 IRE levels.

    Toshiba is not at all correct. Neither is early Panasonic.

    Modern Panasonic may or may not have correct IRE (probably adjusted, but still not correct), and in addition it has serious luminance/gamma problems to deal with.

    Not all inputs are corrected either. I sometimes wonder if the front JVC inputs are IRE 0 and the back inputs are IRE 7.5 with proper pedastal. This may be the case too. I did play a DVD from a DVD player into the front inputs, and got a lighter quality signal. But using all the back ones, never any issues. I've not had the need to test that recently.
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  6. This is wrong. The JVC is set to proper levels.
    If the JVC levels are at a legal NTSC spec, how will you explain the consistent complaints from our members that the recorded picture is washed out compare to the original source and that the only remedy for that is to correct the analog signal to 0 IRE as gshelley61 does with his proc amp?

    Something doesn’t add up.
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  7. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by zorankarapancev
    This is wrong. The JVC is set to proper levels.
    If the JVC levels are at a legal NTSC spec, how will you explain the consistent complaints from our members that the recorded picture is washed out compare to the original source and that the only remedy for that is to correct the analog signal to 0 IRE as gshelley61 does with his proc amp?

    Something doesn’t add up.
    I don't think the members that complain have the proper knowledge or experience to have a clue what they're talking about. This forum is full of people that cry about the wrong thing ("my data disappeared!" comes to mind for starters). If you compare JVC to Panasonic ... and the Panasonic is clearly too dark ... of course you'll believe the JVC is too light. You're basing it off an incorrect assumption of what "normal" is supposed to look like.

    And again .... one more time..... A proc amp was AT NO TIME used in these tests. There was no proc amp. The proc amp is unplugged. No proc amp. Proc amp gone. Missing. Not there. No proc amp in the chain of equipment. Proc-amp free tests.
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  8. OK, OK, OK...A proc amp was AT NO TIME use used in these tests... BUT:


    I used my trusty Panasonic A320 DVD player s-video output as the source (set to "darker" for 0 IRE black level)
    ...which end up the same. The analog signal was corrected to 0 IRE.
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  9. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    I think that was just worded poorly. Don't worry, I'm not ignoring anything. I plan to recreate tests on my end too. Patience.
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  10. Member vhelp's Avatar
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    I made a comment in a post I made over here:

    --> IRE Settings

    ..about making a test platform, using some standard consistancy here.

    Too many variables, and everyone has their own set of flavors, which is
    adding to the new broth of stinch floating around these past few days

    I also think that a separate link should be discuss further with out IRE
    issues, cause its cramping this posters original aim here
    (see the above link, since someone realized the same flavor)

    Thanks all.
    -vhelp 3141
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  11. I tested the playback output signal levels of my Panasonic A320 DVD player, my JVC DR-M10 DVD recorder, and my Panasonic E55 DVD recorder. I wanted to see exactly how they each handle NTSC (s-video) playback of DVD's, and how that might affect what their respective recorded DVD's look like.

    I connected all three units' s-video outputs to my SignVideo Proc Amp (set to "unity", bypassing all functions except the meter) to compare the luma and black levels when playing back the THX DVD test pattern disc. The playback modes were also set to "Normal" for all three machines (not "Fine", or "Cinema", or "Soft").

    Here are the playback signal levels for the A320 DVD player set to "lighter" (7.5 IRE) black level output when paused at these test patterns:

    Contrast - Black 7.5 , Luma 100
    Brightness - Black 5.0 , Luma 100
    Multi-Purpose - Black 7.5 , Luma 100
    video black frame - Black 7.5 , Luma 10


    Here are the playback signal levels for the A320 DVD player set to "darker" (0 IRE) black level output:

    Contrast - Black 0 , Luma 80
    Brightness - Black 0 , Luma 80
    Multi-Purpose - Black 0 , Luma 80
    video black frame - Black 0 , Luma 10


    Same playback test with the Panasonic E55 set to "lighter" 7.5 IRE output:

    Contrast - Black 7.5 , Luma 100
    Brightness - Black 5.0 , Luma 100
    Multi-Purpose - Black 7.5 , Luma 100
    video black frame - Black 7.5 , Luma 10


    The E55 set to "darker" 0 IRE output black level:

    Contrast - Black 0 , Luma 100
    Brightness - Black 0 , Luma 100
    Multi-Purpose - Black 0 , Luma 100
    video black frame - Black 0 , Luma 10

    Notice that the E55 has significantly more luma output in the 0 IRE playback mode than the A320. That results in higher contrast on the display, and would compensate for the E55's slightly darker recordings when they are played back on the recorder in this output mode. This also explains why the E55 appears to have a brighter picture than the A320.


    Now for the JVC, which has a fixed black level output:

    Contrast - Black 0 , Luma 80
    Brightness - Black 0 , Luma 80
    Multi-Purpose - Black 0 , Luma 80
    video black frame - Black 0 , Luma 10

    So, the JVC has exactly the same output signal levels as the Panasonic A320 set to the "darker" 0 IRE mode. And in testing the JVC for how it treats black level, luma and color during recording... it basically duplicates whatever it is sent. It does not alter the black level or luma prior to encoding. That is, if I record a 7.5 IRE source, I get a 7.5 IRE DVD. If I record a 0 IRE source, I get a 0 IRE DVD. It looks just like the original source. This is not a flaw, just a design decision for simplicity of operation. I suspect the decision to fix the output at 0 IRE is due to the fact that the NTSC 7.5 IRE standard is being phased out, and the vast majority of TV's can now handle 0 IRE black level anyway. Again, not a flaw... a design decision.

    The Panasonic (and the Pioneer) have input black level adjustments built-in that allow you to record a 7.5 IRE source as a 0 IRE DVD... then switch back to record a 0 IRE source for a 0 IRE DVD. That is a great feature to have, and does approximately what I do with my proc amp to "correct" 7.5 IRE sources (just not as accurately or with as much flexibility). Again, a nice feature to have (if the consumer knows what it is for and how to use it).

    So, here is the simplified explanation of the JVC's signal handling:

    7.5 IRE source --> encode at 7.5 IRE --> playback at 7.5 IRE

    0.0 IRE source --> encode at 0.0 IRE --> playback at 0.0 IRE



    Panasonic E55 signal handling at default settings ("darker" input, "lighter" output):

    7.5 IRE source --> adjust down and encode at 0.0 IRE --> adjust up and playback at 7.5 IRE

    0.0 IRE source --> adjust down and encode at -7.5 IRE --> adjust up and playback at 0.0 IRE


    With the JVC, one should really adjust 7.5 IRE sources to 0 IRE prior to recording so the finished DVD will look better (correct) on any DVD player. With the Panasonic (and the Pioneer), one must remember to change the input black level settings for 0 IRE sources or the finished DVD will be too dark for other DVD players.
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  12. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Now none of this makes any sense.

    Let's pick several recorders:
    - Pioneer 220
    - Panasonic E20
    - Panasonic E55
    - JVC DRM10
    - LiteOn 5001

    I know for a fact that the JVC DRM10 will faithfully reproduce VHS, S-VHS, and tv/cable broadcasts perfectly. I can edit them in Womble MPEG-VCR, author, and then play in any player I want to, and it looks just as perfect.

    I know that a Panasonic E20 will create crazy-bright DVDs (among other issues). As soon as it goes into another DVD player, light colors are pure white (gone!) and other color/contrast issues exist.

    The Panasonic E55 is a bit dark (among other issues).

    The LiteOn is a shade brighter .. sometimes ... but not by much. Not anywhere near the E20 level problem.

    The Pioneer looks as good as the JVC.

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    Now, I thought the science would clarify some of this. But all its done it confuse the matter even further, something I didn't think was possible.

    I only use my proc amp for video that is all shot to hell, usually old VHS tapes where color and contrast is an issue. I don't use it for "everyday" recordings, it would be totally unnecessary. If I had a recorder that was too bright, I would have never kept it.

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    Until recently, I was under the impression all video, including DVD, was 7.5 IRE. Apparently, it should be 0.0 ... or should it?

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    I know the GAMMA controls in ATI MMC were often set to minimum, and the image was far too dark. I had to brighten it by about 25%. I did 50% a few times, but that created DVDs with black set a little too light (which I correct by enabling BLACK ENHANCE on the Toshiba 2800 player).

    In fact, I have to do that with a lot of commercial DVDs too. Others I have to turn to NORMAL, some to MOVIE 1 (which is brighter). Some things need MOVIE 2 (which drops contrast in addition to darkening it, though not quite as dark as BLACK ENHANCE).

    I almost ALWAYS have to enable a filter for a Panasonic disc to look good, none of them are ever correct at the "NORMAL" settings.

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    I so need a Playskool easy reader version guide to video. This is turning into a mess.
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  13. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by gshelley61
    So, here is the simplified explanation of the JVC's signal handling:

    7.5 IRE source --> encode at 7.5 IRE --> playback at 7.5 IRE

    0.0 IRE source --> encode at 0.0 IRE --> playback at 0.0 IRE

    Panasonic E55 signal handling at default settings ("darker" input, "lighter" output):

    7.5 IRE source --> adjust down and encode at 0.0 IRE --> adjust up and playback at 7.5 IRE
    Okay, so then what's all this about pedastal?

    Do USA NTSC players -ALWAYS- upscale +7.5 IRE to output or not?
    Because if they did, given the numbers you just gave, by all technical means, it would show that the JVC performs like a Toshiba or Panasonic E20 .... which it doesn't.

    Is there some kind of information bit in an MPEG that instructs the player how to handle the video IRE levels?

    Something is just amiss here. I don't where to look anymore.
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  14. Many people have their DVD players running through component video Y Pb Pr outputs... which are all set at 0 IRE. If you play a 7.5 IRE DVD in a player hooked up that way, it will look just fine... exactly like the 7.5 source it came from. The blacks are not all the way black, but they still look decent. I mean, NTSC broadcast, VHS, laserdisc, etc. are all 7.5 IRE, and they look perfectly OK, right? That's what we are all used to in North America.

    The +7.5 IRE boost is on composite and s-video outputs only for NTSC DVD players, and only if the owner has not switched those outputs to "darker" or "black enhance" (0 IRE), which most people likely do because it looks better.

    You're not going crazy, I assure you. And the JVC does darken the blacks a little bit because of the DigiPure processing... but not very much. Not nearly as much as the Panny does on even the "lighter" input setting.

    Oh, yeah... pedestal = setup = black level. Same thing.
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  15. Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    I so need a Playskool easy reader version guide to video. This is turning into a mess.
    That's funny! And it is a mess. The transition North America is currently in the middle of... leaving the decades old 7.5 IRE black level standard behind and implementing 0 IRE in all the digital video formats (plus, the rest of the globe already has 0 IRE as their standard) - well, to say it is causing some confusion is an understatement.

    7.5 IRE will remain the NTSC analog broadcast standard until all the analog TV transmitters are shut down and replaced with ATSC digital transmitters. There is a similar shift going on in cable and sattelite. For example, the HD digital channels on cable and satellite are at 0 IRE already, but the analog channels are still at 7.5 IRE. DVD's are 0 IRE, VHS tapes are still 7.5 IRE. And so it goes.

    And Gamma... that's kind of equivalent to an EQ curve in audio. Different gamma settings produce different video response curves. Not the same thing as black level or luma, but they are related.
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  16. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Yeah... see... I use composite signals and s-video only ... no component ... and my only coax is a single cable in line (well, that and an antenna) .....
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  17. I'll try some recordings from the coax input and some of the other inputs. I've only used L-1 s-video for these tests. And after looking at the playback again, I think maybe there is about a 2.5 IRE drop in black level on the encode with the JVC... but I should sleep now. My fun meter is pegged. So many variables!
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  18. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    I have here 3 DVDs.
    - JVC from rear s-video input from VHS
    - JVC from cable tuner
    - Spiderman 2 commercial release

    On my tv ... all three have the same brightness/contrast. The black is a dark muddy gray on all of them, on the Toshiba 2800 in NORMAL mode (7.5 IRE). If I punch it up to ENHANCED BLACK (EB)(0.0 IRE) ... note that the IRE values on in the user manual ... it turns too dark overall (black turns black, but the white turns gray .. yuck). I use ANIMATION mode, which is sort of like a middle setting. Black turns black, yet lights don't disappear darken like EB did.

    I need to find my blue and red cards so I can readjust with AVIA. Just in case the tv went wonky, but I doubt it.

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    Another set in the house, no adjustments. You stick in disc and hit play. No adjustments are available. It plays absolutely fine. All 3 discs.

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    Coincidentally, I'm watching a DVD a friend made on an E30 ... which he swears "looks fine" ... but I had to pump the BRIGHTNESS down on the tv like 6 notches, and then put the DVD player in what appear to be some sort of "drop contrast" mode. Even then, it's still a bit washed in light areas. THAT'S AN IRE ERROR!

    Because I despise having to move equipment around (especially the good DVD player), it's going to be a while before I can do my own tests with those test THX patterns.

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    I also output one of the TBC-1000 outputs directly into a tv monitor to view the content while it gets recorded. The source, and the new DVD made on a JVC, look identical. Is this unit able to auto-detect IRE signals, and correct for it?

    Something to look at on the LiteOn is that it sends ENCODED material out. What you see is the encode, not a passthrough of some sort. This was talked about a bit on the LiteOn forums before they went belly-up. It has a very slight brightness (but the blacks remain, again, unlike the E20 errors).

    Then again, as we refer back to the E10/E20/E30, is IRE really ALL that was wrong with it? At least in terms of color/contrast issues? Is it a proper comparison or was that machine just so far whacked that it cannot even be a marker.
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    Lordsmurf the DVD that was recorded on your friends E30 probably does looks OK to him/her if it was played back on the E30. I had a E30 before and recordings that I made on the E30 then played back on the E30 generally looked fine. The brightness problem became very noticeable when disc's recorded on the E30 was played back on other DVD players or recorders.
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  20. Originally Posted by KTH
    Lordsmurf the DVD that was recorded on your friends E30 probably does looks OK to him/her if it was played back on the E30. I had a E30 before and recordings that I made on the E30 then played back on the E30 generally looked fine. The brightness problem became very noticeable when disc's recorded on the E30 was played back on other DVD players or recorders.
    Yes. That is where the black level encoding can become a problem if it is too far off from the 0 IRE DVD standard. Also, each model of DVD player out there has it's own unique playback characteristics (some are lighter than others, some have a bit more color, etc.) In many cases, a 7.5 IRE encoded DVD will probably look fine, but on some players will appear to be very light and washed out.
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  21. Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    On my tv ... all three have the same brightness/contrast. The black is a dark muddy gray on all of them, on the Toshiba 2800 in NORMAL mode (7.5 IRE). If I punch it up to ENHANCED BLACK (EB)(0.0 IRE) ... note that the IRE values on in the user manual ... it turns too dark overall (black turns black, but the white turns gray .. yuck). I use ANIMATION mode, which is sort of like a middle setting. Black turns black, yet lights don't disappear darken like EB did.

    I need to find my blue and red cards so I can readjust with AVIA. Just in case the tv went wonky, but I doubt it.
    When you set the DVD player to pass 0 IRE signals, the TV has to be tweaked again to compensate (you had it adjusted to look good with 7.5 IRE black levels). Usually, once the TV is adjusted for 0 IRE black level, the picture will look even better than it did when it was set for 7.5 IRE. Of course, that's assuming your display handles 0 IRE (and below black signals) without any problems. Virtually all TV's these days handle 0 IRE just fine.

    After the TV is set to look correct with 0 IRE input, when you switch back to 7.5 IRE on the DVD player, the image will look a little bit washed out. Since digital video is 0 IRE, and I mainly watch DVD's anyway, all my sets are tweaked for 0 IRE black level input from those sources. In my home theater setup, each input type has independent picture adjustments... so, I have tweaked the picture for cable, laserdisc, VHS, DVD, etc. specifically for each source.
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  22. Member vhelp's Avatar
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    Morning all.

    Wait a minute. I'm a little confused here with the IRE settings, but I'm
    talking about the settings feature that my ADVC-100 featrues w/ it's dip
    switches.

    You guys are saying..
    * If I set it to IRE 0, the source gets dark
    * If I set it to IRE 7.5, the source gets light.

    Canopus says on the unit:
    * set it to IRE 0 (off=PAL) the source gets light.
    * set it to IRE 7.5 (off=NTSC) the source gets dark.

    You guys seem to be refering in the opposite directrions w/ the IRE, or
    else the ADVC-100 is refereced w/ a TYPO error, and has been out on
    these units for years. I can't see Canopus, a highly reputable company,
    missing this, and no one caught it yet. They can't be this blind.

    -vhelp 3143
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  23. Originally Posted by vhelp
    Morning all.

    Wait a minute. I'm a little confused here with the IRE settings, but I'm
    talking about the settings feature that my ADVC-100 featrues w/ it's dip
    switches.

    You guys are saying..
    * If I set it to IRE 0, the source gets dark
    * If I set it to IRE 7.5, the source gets light.

    Canopus says on the unit:
    * set it to IRE 0 (off=PAL) the source gets light.
    * set it to IRE 7.5 (off=NTSC) the source gets dark.

    You guys seem to be refering in the opposite directrions w/ the IRE, or
    else the ADVC-100 is refereced w/ a TYPO error, and has been out on
    these units for years. I can't see Canopus, a highly reputable company,
    missing this, and no one caught it yet. They can't be this blind.

    -vhelp 3143
    On a NTSC DVD player, if the composite/s-video output is set to 0 IRE ("darker" or "black enhance"), no adjustment to the DVD's black level is made. The DVD plays exactly as it was encoded, which is 0 IRE for commercial releases. Component Y Pb Pr outputs on DVD players are set at 0 IRE to begin with.

    If the DVD player composite/s-video output is set to 7.5 IRE ("lighter"), then the black level is adjusted up (lightened) by +7.5 IRE in order to produce a NTSC broadcast standard 7.5 IRE black level signal from DVD's, which are supposed to be encoded at 0 IRE. If the DVD being played in this output mode was encoded at 7.5 IRE, then it will also have a black level boost by +7.5 IRE, making a 15 IRE black level output... which will likely appear to be washed out on your display.

    On the input side of your Canopus, it is doing what I would expect. When set to 0 IRE (for 0 IRE sources), no black level adjustment is made prior to conversion/encoding. When set to 7.5 IRE (for 7.5 IRE black level sources), the black level is adjusted down (darkened) by -7.5 IRE to convert/capture/encode at 0 IRE, which is correct for digital video.
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  24. When you set the DVD player to pass 0 IRE signals, the TV has to be tweaked again to compensate (you had it adjusted to look good with 7.5 IRE black levels). Usually, once the TV is adjusted for 0 IRE black level, the picture will look even better than it did when it was set for 7.5 IRE. Of course, that's assuming your display handles 0 IRE (and below black signals) without any problems. Virtually all TV's these days handle 0 IRE just fine.

    After the TV is set to look correct with 0 IRE input, when you switch back to 7.5 IRE on the DVD player, the image will look a little bit washed out. Since digital video is 0 IRE, and I mainly watch DVD's anyway, all my sets are tweaked for 0 IRE black level input from those sources. In my home theater setup, each input type has independent picture adjustments... so, I have tweaked the picture for cable, laserdisc, VHS, DVD, etc. specifically for each source.


    gshelley61,

    Thank you for bringing this important point! It couldn’t be said simpler and better than this.

    After the black levels mismatch during the recording, the incorrect monitor adjustment is the next most common problem people have with their video systems.
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  25. Originally Posted by zorankarapancev
    When you set the DVD player to pass 0 IRE signals, the TV has to be tweaked again to compensate (you had it adjusted to look good with 7.5 IRE black levels). Usually, once the TV is adjusted for 0 IRE black level, the picture will look even better than it did when it was set for 7.5 IRE. Of course, that's assuming your display handles 0 IRE (and below black signals) without any problems. Virtually all TV's these days handle 0 IRE just fine.

    After the TV is set to look correct with 0 IRE input, when you switch back to 7.5 IRE on the DVD player, the image will look a little bit washed out. Since digital video is 0 IRE, and I mainly watch DVD's anyway, all my sets are tweaked for 0 IRE black level input from those sources. In my home theater setup, each input type has independent picture adjustments... so, I have tweaked the picture for cable, laserdisc, VHS, DVD, etc. specifically for each source.


    gshelley61,

    Thank you for bringing this important point! It couldn’t be said simpler and better than this.

    After the black levels mismatch during the recording, the incorrect monitor adjustment is the next most common problem people have with their video systems.

    Yes, so many variables. And it is confusing for us here in North America, no doubt. The gradual shift from NTSC 7.5 IRE to the new digital ATSC 0 IRE black level standard is full of surprises!
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  26. Member vhelp's Avatar
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    I've got a question on the "color bar" pic on page 1.

    * What's the catch or what are we suppose to look for or gauge
    .. at in our adjusting of our Monitor and/or TV set's colors ??

    * What are we suppose to adjust only ??
    .. (ie, Brightness, contrast, hue) I can't see that we need to adjust
    .. everything. Makes no sense. Must be only one item we need
    .. to fine-tune here. But what is it ??

    Thanks,
    -vhelp 3145
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  27. The THX tests have instructions that go along with each pattern. For example, the grey scale (black level, brightness) pattern with the drop shadow THX logo in the middle works like this... after adjusting your contrast (luma) to it's highest level, without the edges of the white box "blooming" (distorting) or the 4 shades of white becoming undistinguishable; then you adjust the brightness (usually down) until you can barely see the drop shadow of the THX logo - or when the 7th and 8th darkest grey scale boxes look nearly identical to each other.

    The multi purpose test pattern has the color bar... you adjust the color saturation and tint while watching the cyan and pink colors - when they look right, the hue (tint, white balance) should be OK. The cross hatch pattern lets you know if your display has any problems with the shape or placement of the image (distortions, bent lines, etc.) The resolution pattern helps with adjusting the sharpness on your monitor.

    Keep in mind the purpose of these patterns is to adjust your TV to your specific DVD player for optimum DVD playback. It doesn't help with the other signal inputs (cable, VHS, etc.) However, after getting accustomed to a properly set up display, you will be able to adjust those inputs by eye fairly well.
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  28. It also helps considerably to use the recommended TXH blue glasses or any standard blue lens filter when doing the color/hue adjustments.
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  29. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by gshelley61
    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    On my tv ... all three have the same brightness/contrast. The black is a dark muddy gray on all of them, on the Toshiba 2800 in NORMAL mode (7.5 IRE). If I punch it up to ENHANCED BLACK (EB)(0.0 IRE) ... note that the IRE values on in the user manual ... it turns too dark overall (black turns black, but the white turns gray .. yuck). I use ANIMATION mode, which is sort of like a middle setting. Black turns black, yet lights don't disappear darken like EB did.

    I need to find my blue and red cards so I can readjust with AVIA. Just in case the tv went wonky, but I doubt it.
    When you set the DVD player to pass 0 IRE signals, the TV has to be tweaked again to compensate (you had it adjusted to look good with 7.5 IRE black levels). Usually, once the TV is adjusted for 0 IRE black level, the picture will look even better than it did when it was set for 7.5 IRE. Of course, that's assuming your display handles 0 IRE (and below black signals) without any problems. Virtually all TV's these days handle 0 IRE just fine.

    After the TV is set to look correct with 0 IRE input, when you switch back to 7.5 IRE on the DVD player, the image will look a little bit washed out. Since digital video is 0 IRE, and I mainly watch DVD's anyway, all my sets are tweaked for 0 IRE black level input from those sources. In my home theater setup, each input type has independent picture adjustments... so, I have tweaked the picture for cable, laserdisc, VHS, DVD, etc. specifically for each source.
    That's not what I'm saying though. IRE 7.5 on the tv looks great (cable, SVHS, VHS, satellite, antenna, etc). When I go to play any DVD, commercial or JVC-made, it is too light (which also eliminates the possibility of the machine passing and recording a 7.5 IRE signal). I have to set player output to not-quite-0.0 for it to look correct like other signals. And it is a very good player, not those cheapo ones.

    On another tv, which is newer, and the DVD player allows no adjustments (cheapo player), the DVDs are fine as is. no adjustments need be made to anything. Commercials, JVC, etc. Only exception is Panasonic discs have less color, and the old E20 style models are far too bright.

    Somewhere along the lines, the theory and practice are not matching, and some kind of metering somewhere has gone wrong.

    I wish there was some sort of software where I could analyze IRE, etc ... much like we can do with bitrate.
    Want my help? Ask here! (not via PM!)
    FAQs: Best Blank DiscsBest TBCsBest VCRs for captureRestore VHS
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  30. These tests from a dvd player may be a starting point, but I question how relevant they are in the real world. Who uses their recorder from a DVD player? Alot better test would be from a satellite or something someone is actually going to use.
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