problems with resizing and frameserving to CCE

[xycer]

the source is an AVI DVDrip xvid ntsc film and the VAR is anamorphic 2:35 widescreen. Im trying to resize it with virtualdub and frameserving it to CCE, encode it to MPEG2 DVD then eventually convert it to DVD, but when the encoding is done, the ouput mpv picture is all messed up. Its not viewable at all...

can some1 give me tips on how to properly resize and frameserve it to CCE? i resized it to 720x272 to be played on a 4:3 display aspect ratio but i dont know what filter mode to use and if i should check off "expand frame and letterbox image" etc.

[guns1inger]

Use the builtin resize filter. In the top section set the new resolution to the resolution of the PICTURE. Choose Lanczos3 as the resize filter.

Tick the box marked Expand frame and letterbox image and set these to be the full frame resolution (NTSC 720 x 480, PAL 720 x 576).

When calculating for NTSC, I use the following.

Divide 720 x the horizontal resolution of the clip
Multiply the results of that by the vertical resolution to get the new vertical res. Multiply that by 0.9090 to compensate for pixel resolution.

eg. Original is 608 x 256

720/608 = 1.18421
1.18421 x 256 = 303
303 x 0.9090 = 275.4 (round to 275)

therefore new resolution is 720 x 275

This will look wrong in the output window of Virtualdub if it is still set to Free Adjust or 1:1. Set it to 4:3 to see it correctly.

[xycer]

does that formula work for PAL too?

also the guy in this thread:
https://www.videohelp.com/forum/archive/t222000.html

says for movies that are anamorphic, it should be 720x272 but your formula gets 275.

[guns1inger]

All except the pixel ratio - not sure what PAL's is.

There are no absolutes, as it is dependent on the aspect ratio of the file. Depending on how it was done, this may or may not correspond to the original film aspect ratio. In the case of may example (above), the aspect ratio of the original is 2.375, not the 2.35 it was shot in. This is why my calculations come out slightly different to his, and also why just having a table of basic film ARs is not enough. You need to understand the detail behind it to be able to cover yourself when things don't quite fit.

My calculation was for a 4:3 output, not an anamorphic one. Only if the Divx/Xvid is anamorphic would I bother. Otherwise it is an extra resize for no gain, as converting 4:3 to 16:9 anamorphic does not add detail or quality.

[simps]

guns1inger is wrong...

(sorry to say this bro, but i think all the movies you've made using your method will result on a wrong aspect ratio, so you will be seeing distorced frames , you could get some more info here http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/mpg/avi2dvdr.htm )

The right way to do it is this:

If you want 4:3 NTSC, then your movie need to look right @ 640x480 @ 1:1 AR (thats because 4:3 = 1.3333 and 1.3333 x 480 = 640)
If you want 4:3 PAL, then the movie need to look right @ 768x576 @ 1:1 AR(thats because 4:3 = 1.33333 and 1.33333 x 576 = 768)

as you can see, PAL really rock the world of quality when you get use to the 25fps thing

So, if you have a 608x256 1:1 aspect ratio xvid .avi, then you need to make it look right @ 1:1 aspect ratio at 640x480 for ntsc, or 768x576 for PAL.

So, for NTSC 640/608 = 1.0526 and 1.0526x256 = 269.47.
That means that you need to resize it to 640x270 and add 105 on top boarder and 105 on botton border, so the new resolution will be 640x480.
Now your movie will be looking right @ 1:1 AR @ 640x480.
So, resize it to 720x480 for NTSC dvd. Of course you should not make 2 resizes, since that will give you less quality, just do a single resize in this case to 720x270, and then add the borders too get 720x480.


So, for PAL 768/608 = 1.26315 and 1.26315x256 = 323.36
So when you resize it to 768x324 and add the (576-324)/2 = 126 black bordes on top and bottom, you will have 768x576 movie looking right @ 1:1 AR. Now just resize it to 720x576, and you can encode as PAL dvd.
Of course, no need to make 2 resizes, this is just to make it understandable, so make a single resize to 720x324 and then add the boarders to get 720x576.


For 16:9 is just as easy as 4:3, the only diference is that 4/3 = 1.333 and 16:9 = 1.777777. So use your imagination on the calculations above, and see if you can get it done with 16:9 too!


It really is that simple.


So Xycer, FOR 4:3 NTSC DVD the vertical resolution of your movie should NOT be, 275 or 272, it SHOULD be 270, and then you add the borders to 480.

And for 4:3 PAL DVD, the vertical resolution should be 324, and then you add the borders for 576.

Hope it helps....

[]'
Simps

[xycer]

well it helped but now you kinda got me more confused... i now got 3 different answers... 2 people said i should resize to 272, 1 person said 275 and now you say 270.... ugh, encoding movies properly is WAY more confusing than i thought.

[alsyed]

simps has the correct way.

270 is the correct height, and add your borders to bring it up to 480.

[xycer]

even on this guide it says 272 though... Is that guide wrong too?

so your formula is to devide the sources VAR by 640 then X it by the sources height and that foruma always works?

[simps]

Xycer, the formula isnt that hard to understand.
Everything you need to know is right there, looks like you are new to this, so, you will find out that the only way to make it right, is to doing it, and doing it wrong, and then learn with the mistakes.

If this is your first encode, belive me that you will not have the best possible quality and settings for your movie.

There are many things to consider other then the resises, when doing xvid to dvd. Even on CCE, there are a lot of things to set properly to get it done right, like to make black parts of the movie not to look so blocky as this is one big problem with xvid movies etc...

So, do it with 270 verticaly resolution.
See the results, and then on your next movie you will improve your settings, and get better results, and so on....

I will say you need like 3 - 5 movies (even more) to undertand how it really works.

And if you are using CCE, you need to learn avisynth to really get the best of it. Virtualdub is to slow, and so more limited then avisynth.


[]'
Simps

[monzie]

Forget frameserving with Vdub and use AVISynth...if you want a simple method of using AVISynth then just use FITCD to make your .avs script (plus a nice simple grafic representation of the output)...just set CCE to the same aspect flag (4:3 or 16:9) as selected in FITCD (.avs).

And by the way you can open .avs scripts in most media players to DOUBLE CHECK the output BEFORE wasting time encoding....VERY USEFUL AND QUICK!

Read the first section of this guide to learn how to use Fitcd with CCE...plus lots of other useful tips on encoding and using bitrates when encoding xvid's.

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=255103

[xycer]

well, im just new to resizing... ive done a few encodes before but i used to use TMPGEnc which does the resizing for you (if you pick the right settings) so i never had to run into this problem. I am however new to CCE which doesnt have the option of auto resizing so now im new to this resizing thing. I did understand your formula, i just wanted to make sure who was right =]. Im encoding a movie right now that was 608x256 NTSC 23.9fps and i resized it to 720x270 (lanczos) with fitcd/avisynth and saved the script for CCE. Ill see how it turns out, thanks for the help.

*btw monzie, thanks for suggesting fitcd/avisynth, i listened to you when you suggested it in my other thread and fitcd/avisynth works like a charm.

also, in your guide, you had an example of a movie that was 2:35 and for the destination, you checked anamorphic... do you have to check anamorphic if you pick your own vertical size?

I encoded a 2:35 xvid and i resized it with fitcd. I didnt check anamorphic for the destination but i put my own vertical size in the 'resize' box and it turned out alright.

edit: nm, i see later in your guide you say to select 4:3 if you didnt check anamorphic or select 16:9 if you did check anamorphic.... does it make a difference?

[xycer]

does it matter what you make the width aslong as its above 640? With Fitcd, i selected 720x480 for the destination and for the "Resize" tab, i put in 270 for the vertical; whenever i do that however, the resize horizontal changes from 720 to 704 but the destination remains at 720x480. I looked at the output mpv from CCE when it was done encoding and there were black bars on the left and right side of the screen but when i converted it to DVD with TMPGENc, the black bars on the left and right were gone and the VAR seemed to look right on my 4:3 TV. Did i still do it right? is it ok if the resized horizontal changed to 704 from 720?