Copyright Question: Audio Conversions

[tygrus2000]

I own a version of the program Audio DVD creator. I have used it for personal use only and made a couple home brewed Audio only DVDs. Works nice.

Can I legally use this program and do conversions for other people? Does fair use or whatever you want to call it give the owner of the material the right to change the format? Would it be any different than ripping a cd to mp3s? or taping cds to cassettes?

[housepig]

while format-shifting of audio is allowable in US copyright law, I think that offering it as a third-party service would be in violation of copyright.

[tygrus2000]

So somehow this would be seen as selling the music back to the person (which is true copyright infringement) versus selling of the service that converted it? Kinda grey....

[Noahtuck]

I don't know for sure, but if your friend came over with a cd she/he owned & asked for you to transfer it to dvd for him/her to listen to at home i don't see the big deal
you are not selling them to this person, but it would be like the police showing up because you recorded donahue on your vcr for you friend while they were on vacation

[housepig]

well, that's the rub in 99% of these "is it legal" questions... will you get caught? will you get in trouble? probably not, although if you're doing it as a commercial venture, the chances of getting caught and the chances of having legal problems increase dramatically.

[Noahtuck]

yeah
in his first post he does not really make an implication of "charging" but then does in the 2nd post ??

@tygrus2000
Are you talking about charging people to do this or just do it for a friend that has the orginal cd ??

Man, they sure have gotten weird about all this!!
I remember before cd's even, it was no big deal to record a vinyl record to a cassette for friends or even a cassette to cassette for friends
then cd recording came around, D/L, and everything changed

[irongang]

Man, they sure have gotten weird about all this!!
I remember before cd's even, it was no big deal to record a vinyl record to a cassette for friends or even a cassette to cassette for friends
then cd recording came around, D/L, and everything changed

Actually, I have plenty of old LPs from the 70s and 80s with dire warnings on them about how "home taping" is illegal and is destroying the music industry. Somehow, they're still around but they're crying the same river. :P

[Noahtuck]

LOL!!!!!
Yeah i know.... but it was like no big deal for friends to do that back then, i think then it was more for the people selling ton's of boots at the local flea market
I have alot of albums, even from the 60's!! i don't remember anything about "home taping" warnings on mine but i'm gonna have to dig some up outta the back room and look 8)
Now people are all like OOOOH!!!!!!! the swat team is on the way!!!!
OMG!!!!! how could you make a cd for a friend!!!!!!! your going to jail!!!!!!!

[Noahtuck]

Actually, I have plenty of old LPs from the 70s and 80s with dire warnings on them about how "home taping" is illegal and is destroying the music industry. Somehow, they're still around but they're crying the same river. :P

WOW!!! i looked through about 20 albums ( i have A LOT more i just randomly grabbed some) and some even from the late 70's had no warning what so ever!!!!!!
and the ones that did only said 'WARNING: unauthorized duplication of this recording is prohibited by Federal Law & subject to criminal prosecution"
& some had warnings for public broadcating, ect. nothing about "home taping" but it's weird that i have some from the late 70's with no warnings at all!!!! not on the cover, not on the sleeve inside & nothing on the record label either!!! & i'm talking like world famous Hard Rock albums even today!!

[housepig]

I remember seeing the "home taping is killing the music industry" around the mid 80's.. I also remember the Circle Jerks "Group Sex" cassette having a parody warning, saying that "home taping is killing the music industry, and we've left the B side blank so that you can do your part!"

think no one cared about audio tape? think again - look to the 80's congressional attempts to levy taxes on blank audio tape, as a pre-emptive repayment for the assumed rampant piracy from lp's.

and the first stab at dupicatable digital, DAT, died a quick death due to gov't red tape and fears of thousands of perfect digital copies (which with DAT at least is a myth in any case), effectively destroying it's adoption in the home market, and sticking it in the pro studio niche.

the ones that did only said 'WARNING: unauthorized duplication of this recording is prohibited by Federal Law & subject to criminal prosecution"
& some had warnings for public broadcating, ect. nothing about "home taping"

home taping IS unauthorized duplication, unless you have some release form from the copyright holder

[irongang]

Hmmm, I'll see if I can dig some up, but I just moved 2 weeks ago and all of my LPs are still in boxes. I remember picking up a used LP right before I moved that had it on there. What it is I don't remember. I'll repost later.

It seems to me it was more often on the record sleeve than the jacket, but I never really took that much note of it.

EDIT: Here's one from the sleeve of the 'Best of Rainbow' 2LP set from 1981:

[Noahtuck]

I also remember the Circle Jerks "Group Sex" cassette having a parody warning, saying that "home taping is killing the music industry, and we've left the B side blank so that you can do your part!"

I love that!!!!!!!!!

It seems to me it was more often on the record sleeve than the jacket, but I never really took that much note of it.

EDIT: Here's one from the sleeve of the 'Best of Rainbow' 2LP set from 1981:

no shit!!!!! never saw such a thing!!!!!!!! and i have TONS of albums, about 99% of hard rock & metal, stuff like rainbow also....

[tygrus2000]

Truthfully, in the back of my mind, I was thinking service fee, but I think it would violate copyright, if I understand its definition.

[tygrus2000]

Just a follow up: What if something like this was spun as you making a backup copy for someone. I guess the best analogy would be movies, I think most here agree making a backup copy of your movie is ok and allowed under fair use, but what if you paid someone to do it for you?

Semantics I know, but such is the legal system we are in.

[housepig]

again, no - even if the US Copyright law allowed you to make a backup for yourself (and since there hasn't been any case law yet, the jury is totally out on that), you're not doing your own, you're doing someone else's, whether you get paid or not, it's violation of copyright.

[tygrus2000]

Housepig, you are extremely well schooled regarding the new digital copyright age.

[Noahtuck]

I also thought that "a recent copyright law that prohibits anyone from tampering with security devices on DVDs."

I know, it's argued that "fair use" or what have you is interpreted as us being allowed to make personal backups of owned material and i agree, we should be able to!!!

I did'nt study law so this is just something i found and i don't know if it would pertain to this or music or anything other than what it say's as it states "Computer programs" but here it is anyways.

§ 117. Limitations on exclusive rights: Computer programs
(a) Making of Additional Copy or Adaptation by Owner of Copy.— Notwithstanding the provisions of section 106, it is not an infringement for the owner of a copy of a computer program to make or authorize the making of another copy or adaptation of that computer program provided:
(1) that such a new copy or adaptation is created as an essential step in the utilization of the computer program in conjunction with a machine and that it is used in no other manner, or
(2) that such new copy or adaptation is for archival purposes only and that all archival copies are destroyed in the event that continued possession of the computer program should cease to be rightful.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode17/usc_sec_17_00000117----000-.html

There is the link to the whole section. And i am sure since then they have made or changed specific law's regarding music or video disc's.


My point is, i would think it would be just as legal to render a service to someone who does not have the meens themselves to backup their own property regardless of what it is. law prob. argues with me on this but i'm just throwing it out there. because we all know how specific & clear they make some laws

Because if my friend came to me and said, i don't have a burner can you make a cd-r of this cd i own because i don't want to take the original with me on vacation because it will get ruined in the car, i see no problem with it

[tzamroor]

Guys!

I would be very carefull!!! If you keep talking like that, your topic might get locked! Tat tat tat..... no dealing with copied stuff.....

[Noahtuck]

Guys!

I would be very carefull!!! If you keep talking like that, your topic might get locked! Tat tat tat..... no dealing with copied stuff.....

were talking about LEGALY backing up material & copyright/backup law :P
Things that you OWN!!!! Read it, dont assume because you got locked

[tzamroor]

I was just kidding, I could not give a ****....

I just got a topic locked by BJ_M because he recons I was promoting Warez....

Oh well, I will probably be banned from these forums in a minute....

Whatever...

You are in breach of the forum rules and are being issued with a formal warning. Bye Bye.
/ Moderator Baldrick

[Blazey]

I was just kidding, I could not give a ****....

I just got a topic locked by BJ_M because he recons I was promoting Warez....

Oh well, I will probably be banned from these forums in a minute....

Whatever...

You should be with this attitude. It is viewpoints like this that may eventually lead to the end of an enjoyable hobby for people willing to support rather than pirate the entertainment they want to watch or listen to.

[tzamroor]

OOOOOhhhhhhh!

Tell me wise guy?

What is the purpose of this whole god damn forum?

If you have a "legit copy", as all you angels call them, why back them up? Or make legal copies of them?

You bought a DVD in the shop and then run home to back it up?

PLEASE.......!!!!!

[Blazey]

Yes shit-stirrer, I do back up my DVD's. Just like I used to tape my LP's and put them away so I don't have to buy them again when the inevitable happens. Not to mention the billions of people shooting home movies and creating DVD's from them.

[Cobra]

What an arse that guy tzamroor was. Coming here, ignoring the rules with his warez then having a little tantrum when he gets told off for it.

Some people have no respect for decent forums, do they?

Never mind. He got what he deserved.

[Blazey]

If not respect, some common sense at least!

[daamon]

OOOOOhhhhhhh!

Tell me wise guy?

What is the purpose of this whole god damn forum?

If you have a "legit copy", as all you angels call them, why back them up? Or make legal copies of them?

You bought a DVD in the shop and then run home to back it up?

PLEASE.......!!!!!

There are those people who have kids and want the kids to watch the backup so the original doesn't get trashed.

There are those who like to keep their originals, especially special editions, in mint condition - including the packaging - so backups mean that the cases / presentation boxes don't get "well thumbed".

I recently moved to Oz and took backups of all my favourite films, just in case the originals got lost / damaged.

Is that enough for you? Guess that makes me wise...

Still, I hope others benefit from this coz I doubt / hope that that gobby idiot tzamroor won't be back to read it.

[JimBarbasol]

I don't know for sure, but if your friend came over with a cd she/he owned & asked for you to transfer it to dvd for him/her to listen to at home i don't see the big deal
you are not selling them to this person, but it would be like the police showing up because you recorded donahue on your vcr for you friend while they were on vacation

Online piracy is the unauthorized use of copyrighted works, including movies, music and television programs, on the Internet. It is ILLEGAL to sell, trade, lease, distribute, download, upload, transmit, or publicly perform creative works online without the consent of the copyright owner . Many people do not realize that ALL of these activities are against the law, WHETHER OR NOT money is exchanged. The MPA Worldwide Internet Anti-Piracy program investigates ALL forms of online piracy, including downloadable media, hard goods, streaming media, and online offerings of illegal circumvention devices.

[MOVIEGEEK]

Online piracy is the unauthorized use of copyrighted works, including movies, music and television programs, on the Internet. It is ILLEGAL to sell, trade, lease, distribute, download, upload, transmit, or publicly perform creative works online without the consent of the copyright owner . Many people do not realize that ALL of these activities are against the law, WHETHER OR NOT money is exchanged. The MPA Worldwide Internet Anti-Piracy program investigates ALL forms of online piracy, including downloadable media, hard goods, streaming media, and online offerings of illegal circumvention devices.

Are you a Narc?*


*American slang for undercover agent.

[adam]

Slang for an undercover drug enforcement agent, as in Narcotics officer.

[hakamtzan]

Interesting subject this....

I have a Backup of a legit DVD movie I bought in a shop.
Like some of you people I have backed it up but not for safe keeping. I wanted to try and get rid of the black borders which I get, as my TV is not wide screen and the movie is (before you ask, no I can not "fit to screen" in any way...)

Theoreticaly, if I lend my copy to someone, am I in breach of the copyrights law? What if I lend the original?