DVD copy protection strengthened

[Lexus]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4266977.stm

DVDs will be harder to copy thanks to new anti-piracy measures devised by copy protection firm Macrovision.
The pirated DVD market is enormous because current copy protection was hacked more than five years ago.

Macrovision says its new RipGuard technology will thwart most, but not all, of the current DVD ripping (copying) programs used to pirate DVDs.

"RipGuard is designed to... reduce DVD ripping and the resulting supply of illegal peer to peer," said the firm.

Macrovision said the new technology will work in "nearly all" current DVD players when applied to the discs, but it did not specify how many machines could have a problem with RipGuard.

The new technology will be welcomed by Hollywood film studios which are increasingly relying on revenue from DVD sales.

The film industry has stepped up efforts to fight DVD piracy in the last 12 months, taking legal action against websites which offer pirated copies of DVD movies for download.

"Ultimately, we see RipGuard DVD... evolving beyond anti-piracy, and towards enablement of legitimate online transactions, interoperability in tomorrow's digital home, and the upcoming high-definition formats," said Steve Weinstein, executive vice president and general manager of Macrovision's Entertainment Technologies Group.

RipGuard DVD is designed to plug the "digital hole" that was created by so-called DeCSS ripper software.

It circumvented anti-copy measures placed on DVDs and let people make perfect digital copies of copyrighted DVDs in minutes.

Those copies could then be burned onto a blank DVD or uploaded for exchange to a peer-to-peer network.

Macrovision said RipGuard would also prevent against "rent, rip and return" - where people would rent a DVD, copy it and then return the original.

RipGuard is expected to be rolled out on DVDs from the middle of 2005, the company said.

The new system is in fact a tweak of the current anti-piracy measures which works specifically to block most ripping programs.

If used, those programs will most likely crash, the company said.

Macrovision has said that Rip Guard can be updated if hackers find a way around the new anti-copying measures.

[boss]

hi have'nt posted here in ages! but i thought it was worth posting about this.
i'm very worried. is anyone working on a way to get around rip guard? i hope so!

[bazooka]

hi have'nt posted here in ages! but i thought it was worth posting about this.
i'm very worried. is anyone working on a way to get around rip guard? i hope so!

It will soon be bypassed.

[MarkRacer]

RipGuard is just another attempt to slow us down. There will always be programs to circumvent any protection scheme out there. Nothing and I mean nothing is 100% secure in the digital world or anywhere else for that matter. 'Macrovision has said that Rip Guard can be updated if hackers find a way around the new anti-copying measures.' Macrovision must be joking when they said "if." It's not "if" but WHEN we find a way around...hehehe...gotta love these guys. [/b]

[boss]

yeah bazooka, nothing is hack or pirate proof. it will be interesting to see what the next version of dvd decrypter will do to tackle this. otherwise the program is worthless!

[boss]

hey markracer, i've been er, "backing up" dvd's for almost 4 years now. you can't blame me if i get worried about his.
i feel a bit like a british foxhunter now my hobby is under threat!

[proxyx99]

In the age of rapid DVD's deterioration (especially after purchase) so much so that almost every member here keeps 2 copies of DVD's they bought (original and "backup") such scheme becomes a major nuisance calling for a new ver. of DVDDecrypter. Backing up became a must nowadays... You can never be too careful preserving your collection...
By looking at number of posts about bulk blank media purchases one can draw conclusion that DVD purchases are skyrocketing and collections are becoming massive to say the least...

That is a great news to Studios and certainly no reason to implement new protection scheme. On the other hand such steps may only accelerate recent DVD sales as even the laziest will engage in backing up their recent and of course future collections (in order to preserve them for future generations) as long as it is possible.
I'm afraid that tinkering with such prosperous looking scenario (for all involved) may only damage the delicate fabric of current economic relations. Since such irresponsible steps by Studios may only shake and sway the market in God knows what direction their current plans to introduce new protection scheme cannot be applauded and must be considered very adventurous... Let's just hope they know what they are doing because public may stop buying (or renting God forbid) which would spell plain disaster.
Seems like in this case only a new ver. of DVDDecrypter may bring market back to balance. We all hope for that. Looks like they will have a civic duty to look into this issue in order to prevent a major market disruption.

[bugster]

Macrovision said the new technology will work in "nearly all" current DVD players when applied to the discs, but it did not specify how many machines could have a problem with RipGuard.

So does that mean that, like many CD copy protection schemes, it breaks the official DVD-Video standard? In that case how would a consumer fare if he bought one of these disk and it wouldn't play in their standalone. Would they be entitled to a refund? Will the manufacturers be allowed to use the official DVD logos etc?

The new system is in fact a tweak of the current anti-piracy measures which works specifically to block most ripping programs.

So its a variation on 'Arcoss' or something similiar. Bad sectors on the disk, referenced from the IFO files but not actually part of the movie. So easily bypassed its a joke!

[proxyx99]

Plus, forgive me, I forgot about the refunds coming your way (how stupid!). This can only add to an extreemely attractive picture of the near future.

[handyguy]

we can still aim a camcorder at our screens & make a copy.

[Gurm]

Macrovision said the new technology will work in "nearly all" current DVD players when applied to the discs, but it did not specify how many machines could have a problem with RipGuard.

So does that mean that, like many CD copy protection schemes, it breaks the official DVD-Video standard? In that case how would a consumer fare if he bought one of these disk and it wouldn't play in their standalone. Would they be entitled to a refund? Will the manufacturers be allowed to use the official DVD logos etc?

Yes, it does. And no, they won't. They probably will anyway, unless Philips sues them (again).

The new system is in fact a tweak of the current anti-piracy measures which works specifically to block most ripping programs.

So its a variation on 'Arcoss' or something similiar. Bad sectors on the disk, referenced from the IFO files but not actually part of the movie. So easily bypassed its a joke!

Yep. It's just Arccos with some extra shmeg. Nothing new, nothing amazing. Easily bypassed by a quick update of DVD Decrypter.

[dcsos]

NEW RIP GUARD BY MACROVISION
posted on this just today

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1765127,00.asp

RipGuard, however, is designed to eliminate an even easier source of piracy—the digital bitstream itself. According to Gervin, just over a billion dollars has been lost to people who "rip and return": consumers who rent a movie, copy it to their own digital library, and return the movie the next day.

Gervin declined to comment specifically on the RipGuard technology, which he described as "a format-based technology applied to optical media of the DVD." The DVD will not include embedded software, nor will it force consumers to buy a new DVD player, as the VCPS format developed by HP and Philips will. Each title will have a unique format attached to it, Gervin said, that will help keep Macrovision one step ahead of copyright violators.

[imtigger2]

As long as we can put our DVD's into a drive attached to our computers, it's impossible to stop our legal right to backups. The only way they can stop the backups is to come up with a proprietary DVD player that reads discs that can't be read with a PC drive. Like Xbox discs (I heard), some rings on the disc are more dense than others.... or they could physically put something into the disc that the reader would NEED to verify in order to play it. Like an I.D. chip or something that's not easily bypassed or copied into DVD blanks.

Then, they would have to make it illegal to mfg drives for PC's that can read these types of discs.

Where it's not impossible for the industry to do, it's highly unlikely that it will happen any time soon. If it does happen, they would have to make DVD players that are backwards compatible with current discs AND consumers would have to pony up the money to buy new DVD players to see this 'new' media.

Again, unlikely. I believe they'd be opening a HUGE can of worms if they did that. With some people (not me... of course) unable to make copies of their rentals from Netflix or wherever... that will encourage them to download them from the internet and the studios will lose the revenue stream they currently get from these people making copies of their paid-for rentals.

On another note, I truly believe that ALL media, music, movies, etc... will eventually be streamed to viewing and listening devices, on demand. I strongly feel we're all headed into a time when we will watch a DVD on demand in our home, car or on the road on a laptop, or other portable device, which should eliminate the need to even own personal DVD's or music. With access to historys entire library of movies, and music, on demand, why should we keep them on our shelves? That is of course if the price is extremely reasonable.

Dan B
imtigger

[ybeard]

Imagine how ticked off I'll be the first time I buy a DVD that won't play in my Bose system that I payed huge bucks for. yeah, so I got suckered on the Bose, but that's beside the point.

[JimJohnD]

This sounds like the "Protection" audio CDs were to get with the scheme that used a program in a data track of the disc. A standalone player sees the "video" session first and a computer sees the "data" session first. It used Windows Auto-Run property of to start a program that provided the “protection”. Too bad that one was overcome by simply disabling the Auto-Run for the drive. It can’t be to much if existing drives will still be able to play the disc. What is in it’s AutoRun.inf would be the question.

[glockjs]

eh, let me know when this comes out so i can update dvddecrypter

[Laddydaddy]

The only people who will be hurt by ripguard will be the Hollywood moguls that pay Macrovision for this new copy protection. Macrovision will then come out with another new copy protection scheme. For a fee of course.

[otpw1]

It has been stated repeatedly.
If it can be played it can be copied.

[steve2713]

It has been stated repeatedly.
If it can be played it can be copied.

That's what it comes down to, yep.

[MackemX]

I wonder what will happen with the next generation of copy protection?

[Rich86]

Once more the greedy folks in the entertainment industry try to maximize their profits by peddling purposely defective, low quality products. I suggest if anyone ends up with one of these defective non-standard dvd's, you return it and demand your money back. That's what I plan to do. Maybe someday they will learn to focus on putting out a reasonably priced, high quality product that everyone will want to buy.

[MackemX]

I'd be happy if they just drop the price . I would end up spending more as I can't resist bargains

[proxyx99]

Since by Macrovision's own admission RipGuard is effective in 97% the question is who owns the other 3 %. The hunt is on as someone is to make some serious coin if they happen to belong to the 3% Club.

[Gurm]

The only way they can stop the backups is to come up with a proprietary DVD player that reads discs that can't be read with a PC drive. Like Xbox discs (I heard), some rings on the disc are more dense than others....

XBox discs are regular DVD's. They're just encrypted.

[Gurm]

The key word here is "by market share".

It's 97% effective BY MARKET SHARE.

That means that it stops 97% of all rippers SOLD today.

What rippers are SOLD today? I can't think of any off the top of my head other than DVD XCopy, which is defeated by every new protection because it hasn't been updated in years.

Does DVD2One have a ripper built in? That would be the only other commercial one I could think of.

DVD Decrypter and DVD Shrink don't count in "market share" surveys because they're free.

[proxyx99]

That seems to bring more confusion then clarity. Firstly, you don't know what he meant by "market". There are no legally sold DVD rippers and DeCSS'ers. Since the whole "market" is a free tool market by its nature with SmartRipper and DVDDecrypter leading the way and holding probably close to 100% of the "market", is this possible that they meant market outside of a real "market" as it is now? That would mean as per your logic that they are targeting no more then 5%, at best, of the true "market"...

If they are as smart as you suggest and ignore DVDDecrypter, SmartRipper and alike because they are free then the whole fuss about RipGuard is without substance, don't you think?

Such approach would marginalize Marovision's RipGuard to the degree of almost imperceptible. I can't even think that they are that stupid as you seem to suggest... or are they?

I believe that you should reevaluate your post.

PS. DVD2One is a transcoder (solely) not a ripper. The only payware ripper I can think of is AnyDVD (to the best of my knowledge).

[imtigger2]

proxy... I agree. I can't see that they'd be so stupid as to not go right to the heart of the problem when trying to concieve effective copy protection.

These retail "copy" packages are all useless in the first place, usually allowing you only to copy non-protected media (and most always containing packaging that's a bit misleading to the consumer).

I don't think they're stupid. Keep in mind that these companies try hard to aquire 'hackers' to assist them in developing new strategies.

Sounds like a challenge to me.

Their percentages may be closer to reality immediately after the release of their supposed 'protection'. 97% of us will be looking towards those 3% brilliant coders who will fix the problem, share the love, and help us out of the mess they create.

Danny B
imtigger

[silvergator]

I guess that question really boils down to is: how is the average Joe ripping his disk? I have seen a few rippers for sale at best buy. Is Joe Shmoe ripping with consumer bought software, or does he use DVD Decyrptor? (The difference being in whether there is a resulting adaption to the new copy protection.)

[Rich86]

What I find really amusing in all this is the movie studios estimate that they are losing $1 billion annually due to copying of dvd's - as if everyone who ever burns a movie to a blank media would have run out and purchased it at full retail otherwise . . . . it is nonsense!

[dsquorpion]

people i know, who are joe shmoe they like easy, all in one progys that do it for them, ie dvdxcopy, they are already getting frustrated when they can't backup movies like resident evil, little black book and the like, i do not think people that visit this forum and others like it will be affected thanx to programmers of decrypter, new copy protection will affect people that buy software from best buy, d/t they don't take the time to research (i mean how hard is it to google something)

i've been backing up for a while, remember when u had 2 use like 15 programs to make a copy, rip, ifoedit reempeg (i'll stop there carpal tunnel will set in if i keep typing all the programs)

just my 2cents and i'm broke