how do you convert a vob file into a vro file?

[johnsteed]

hey all, i hope all is well
first post, i hope its not considered retarded.

i've searched around for information on how to convert a vob file into a vro file. the two posts that seem to answer my problem each have links on them and each link is no longer available. (each post is a couple years old)
the reason i need this info is because i have other files on my harddrive that i obtained from my standalone panasonic 75 dvd recorder. these files are on dvd-ram disk and the format is .vro as you know.
TMPGenc dvd author 1.6 is an excellent program for working with these .vro files, making menus, the whole works..... however i can't work with .vro files and .vob files in the same project. maybe there's an error on my part that someone could correct that would allow me to work with both formats in the same project. but i keep getting a message, informing me of an error that cannot be ignored.

anyway, sorry for the long story...
is there any way that i can work with both formats using TMPGenc dvd author?
and/or
is there any way i can convert a .vob file on my harddrive into a .vro file on my harddrive?

any help would be appreciated...
g

[johnsteed]

Hey all
Still searching on how to convert vob files into vro.
There's tons and tons of links on vro --> vob conversion, i wish that was what i needed, but its not

Any help would be appreciated
Thanks

[BJ_M]

demultiplex both of them to mpeg2 files and work with those

[johnsteed]

demultiplex both of them to mpeg2 files and work with those

Sorry, but I don't see that. Demultiplex "both"?

I have several small folders that I have created..... each with a Audio_TS folder and a Video_TS folder. I want to know how to convert these into DVD_RTAV folders. Vob's into Vro's......

I'm sorry, but I'm not seeing how to "work with those"... Demultiplex vob's and work them into vro's? I would appreciate it if you could describe how you do that. Thanks

[BJ_M]

you said you are making dvd's ////



so take all your assets - which are in some form of mpeg2 .. demuliplex them to elementary streams using tmpgenc (m2v) and use those ...

[johnsteed]

you said you are making dvd's ////

no i didn't

I ask "is there any way that i can work with both formats using TMPGenc dvd author?
and/or
is there any way i can convert a .vob file on my harddrive into a .vro file on my harddrive? "

I mean no offense, I'm sure it probably will be taken though. But my original post ask about converting VOB's into VRO's.
This is what I need. I know how to make a dvd... I was searching for a way to convert.

[lacywest]

When I transfer a video from a DVD-RAM disk [Panasonic DMR-E50S] to my hard drive it becomes a VRO ... it is pretty much a mpg-2 video file.

I change the extension from vro to mpg.

You can use TDA to transfer the DVD Disk vobs to mpg[s] by opening TDA and allowing it to transfer to your hard drive. The vob files will become one large ... mpg-2 video file.

Not sure if this is what you want to do but should give you some ideas.

It could be there is a glitch in your VRO file ... that TDA feels is non-compliant ... which means you need to stick it in another program and convert it to a DVD compliant Mpg-2 video ... first.

Canopus ProCoder 2 Wizard and InterVideo WinDVD Creator 2 are the programs I use to make DVD compliant mpg-2 files.

InterVideo WinDVD Creator 2 ... gives you 3 choices of audio ... LPCM ... AC-3 or MPEG audio

[johnsteed]

I know how to work with VRO's... I know how to convert them into VOB's....... no problems

But what I am looking for is a way to convert in the other direction.... VOB's into VRO's....

thanks

[lacywest]

I know how to work with VRO's... I know how to convert them into VOB's....... no problems

But what I am looking for is a way to convert in the other direction.... VOB's into VRO's....

thanks

Why do you want to convert a vob into a vro ... ???

I'm serious ... what benefit will be the result ... ??

[johnsteed]

In my finite lifetime, there will never be enough time for me to learn what I want to know, what I should know, or what I could know. I will not even scratch the surface. The amount of programs on this site is enormous, new ones all the time. I am really comfortable with a few of them. My original post was an attempt for me to learn how to do a conversion. If it can be done I would appreciate the knowledge. I mean no offense, some will be taken though, I'm sure.

How do you convert a VOB file into a VRO file?

thanks for any help

[Cornucopia]

Ok, so you'll stop repeating the question, I'll tell you the only way I know how to convert a VRO to a VOB...

1. Take the VOB and author it to a standard DVD.
2. Play that DVD in a standard player, while Recording a NEW DVD-RAM disc in your DVD recorder from the connections between the 2.
3. Transfer that back to computer---voila! VRO

Honestly, though, you're making this more difficult than it is and not getting the hints from those who can help.

TDA works with a number of formats: VOB, VRO, Muxed and Elementary MPEGs (IIRC).
If, on this occasion, you can't move Mohammad, you just move the mountain. (That means, convert all your other VRO's to VOB and author using all VOB's, or follow BJ_M's advice and demux to elementary MPEG streams and author)

What do you want to end up with after working in TDA, anyway? A standard settop-playable consumer DVD, right?
Think of it like this, just as water runs downhill, the various formats usually flow into a standardized form of distribution. DVD-Video (with its VIDEO_TS and IFOs,BUPs, and VOBs) is the top standardized form, while DVD-VR and variants (with RTAV and VROs) isn't. It's meant for consumer recording and editing, the end of which is either supposed to be played only on recorders and VRO-capable players, or which will be ultimately converted to VOBs so they can play on everything.

Ever see Fitzcaraldo? You sound like you want to heave your ship over the mountain, with no apparent reason about what to do once you get to the top.

HTH,

Scott

[BJ_M]

very well put Cornucopia

[johnsteed]

so, there must be NO way of converting a VOB into a VRO........... why does it matter why i want to do the conversion? i want to know how.
all i want is information on converting.
i've been in this site for years and i knew posting in it would be an invitation to bashing, viola, and bam...... its happens
i'm glad bj that you are amused, whatever

at the moment i do not want to know anything but how to convert a VOB file on my harddrive into a VRO file on my harddrive
why? i just do

so i'm guessing it can't be done, thanks

[BJ_M]

i'm not amused about anything and no one was bashing anyone -- Cornucopia gave you the answer on what you are trying to do -- the only method ..

i thought you were doing the logical method of using dvd author , that is my mistake ..

[lacywest]

Nice simple answer ... "because I do "

So you were hoping we would tell you of a program that inputs a file and out pops a file with vro as the extension on it.

I just take vro files from my DVD-RAM disks and rename them mpg.

But I've been told there is something unique about vro files created on DVD-RAM disks but for my purposes ... I haven't discovered them.

I don't want this or that video player to open vro files ... I'm usually partial to one particular video player and so I rename the extension for that reason.

[johnsteed]

hey lacywest

i didn't think there was a program for inserting a vob and then wam-bam-thank-ya.... a vro...
i figured it would be a lengthy process
with TDA i'm able to work with vob's
with TDA i'm able to work with vro's
but i've not been able to work with them in the same project

i could change vro's to vob's and work that way, but i really like the way TDA takes my vro file and has the chapters preserved the way i copied them on the RAM disk.... its tough for me to explain...... but the way my panasonic does the RAM disk and the way i work the project with TDA, its very smooth

i know i can take each chapter and make individual vob files, i was just hoping... hoping that vob into vro conversion on my harddrive was possible

i appreciate you time lacywest, thanks

g

[lacywest]

hey lacywest

i didn't think there was a program for inserting a vob and then wam-bam-thank-ya.... a vro...
i figured it would be a lengthy process
with TDA i'm able to work with vob's
with TDA i'm able to work with vro's
but i've not been able to work with them in the same project

i could change vro's to vob's and work that way, but i really like the way TDA takes my vro file and has the chapters preserved the way i copied them on the RAM disk.... its tough for me to explain...... but the way my panasonic does the RAM disk and the way i work the project with TDA, its very smooth

i know i can take each chapter and make individual vob files, i was just hoping... hoping that vob into vro conversion on my harddrive was possible

i appreciate you time lacywest, thanks

g

I think that chapter info is contained in one of the files on the DVD-RAM disk.

[Cornucopia]

Well, if you wanted to maintain the chapter info, why didn't you just say that in the 1st place?

AFAIK, while the I-Frame & MPEG Sequence Headers that chapters must start at are part of the VOB file (and the VRO), the designation "Chapter ##" is really a Navigation construct, and therefore is incorporated into the IFO files.

This means:
If you've already turned some of your VROs into VOBs without authoring (and thereby creating IFOs), you've already LOST your chapter marks. You'll have to slog through and re-create them by hand. Simply taking those VOBs and re-converting them to VROs wouldn't magically re-create the chapters anyway.
This is where a pencil and paper to write down timecodes (and knowing how to do timecode math) comes in handy.

Scott

p.s. I guess there's no point in asking if you still have the original RAM discs that the VROs (and subsequent VOBs) came from?

[johnsteed]

Well, if you wanted to maintain the chapter info, why didn't you just say that in the 1st place?

....

p.s. I guess there's no point in asking if you still have the original RAM discs that the VROs (and subsequent VOBs) came from?

I didn't say I wanted to maintain the chapter info.... I said " really like the way TDA takes my vro file and has the chapters preserved the way i copied them on the RAM disk"

anyway... but now i am interested in why you wanted to know if i still had the original RAM discs that the vro's came from..... i don't.. but i do have them copied in their entirity on my harddrive.... what are you suggesting? please know that i originally wanted a way to convert vob's into vro's OR a way of working with both formats in TDA at the same time/same project... but i am now curious in your "p.s."

thanks

g

[Cornucopia]

I didn't say I wanted to maintain the chapter info.... I said " really like the way TDA takes my vro file and has the chapters preserved the way i copied them on the RAM disk"

Isn't that the same thing?

anyway... but now i am interested in why you wanted to know if i still had the original RAM discs that the vro's came from..... i don't.. but i do have them copied in their entirity on my harddrive.... what are you suggesting? please know that i originally wanted a way to convert vob's into vro's OR a way of working with both formats in TDA at the same time/same project... but i am now curious in your "p.s."

thanks

g

If you've got all the source files on HD, why are you needing to include VOB files, you've got all the VROs already, NO?

Scott

[george57l]

Well I see it has been 2.5 years since this discussion petered out. I also noted cornucopia commenting on conversion to VRO on other threads in a similar vein (I think) - so just in case anyone is still listening (or cares)...

I also want to convert video files on my PC into Panny VRO format to record on DVD-RAM.

Why?

Well, I have lots of odd video on various formats (avi, vob, etc) on my PC. I want to burn to a DVD-RAM so I can wander downstairs and watch this stuff with family and friends on my large TV and Panny HDD/DVD recorder. I only ever want to watch it once and then delete from and reuse the DVD-RAM disk. (Very rarely I might want to dub from DVD-RAM to HDD and compile with other clips from the HDD, on to a DVD-R). I Don't want to consume DVD-Rs (the only other thing my Panny DVD recorder will play) however cheap they are, just for a one-time viewing or very rare dub to HDD.

What I want may not be possible, of course, as perhaps johnsteed finally concluded. (But it's funny how many comments on this topic on this forum and others seem to assume that some other format, or ability to edit or view on a PC is a good alternative to what is being asked about. And if that doesn't invite some robust response .... )


George

PS lots of people say "just rename VRO to MPG in order to play with/edit the file on a PC. What happens if MPG is renamed to VRO and burnt to DVD-RAM?

[Cornucopia]

George, I'll be honest with you...

AFAIK, there are NO apps that will take material and AUTHOR AND BURN to the VR specification.

IOW, you want a common denominator for settops, use VOBs (DVD-Video specification). Convert other formats to it (or convert ALL to plain MPGs and re-author).

Why can't you:
1. Author as DVD-Video to DVD Disc Image (or VIDEO_TS folder with files)
2. Burn with Data Burning app (like IMGBurn) onto DVD-RAM
3. Watch "DVD-Video_on_DVD-RAM" on your Panny
4. Erase and reuse for next show

Does your Panny not "recognize" DVD-Video material on DVD-RAM discs?

What about -RW discs? (Panny may not be able to record with them, but they ought to be able to read them)

Scott

[guns1inger]

You might wan to have a read of this post : https://forum.videohelp.com/topic329000.html#1700094 as it *may* cover what you are after.

Then again, I just burn to RWs in mpg/vob/avi format, watch the contents and then reuse.

[george57l]

gunslinger - thanks - I'll check it out

Scott - The Panny manual (took me a while to dig it out) says it does not play +RW (or -RW)

It only plays and records DVD-RAM (.VRO files) and DVD-R (.VOB, I guess)

It also handles (play only) DVD-Video, DVD-Audio, Video CD, CD-Audio (CD-DA), CD-R/RW (MP3, CD-DA) and Video CD formatted discs.

I'm pretty sure the Panny does not "recognise" DVD-Video material on DVD-RAM discs. (Vague memory I tried it once a very long time ago) but I'll double check.

Given all this, and your confirmation that, as I suspected, there is no way to do this, I may just have to convert the material to .VOB and burn and waste DVD-R discs.

In my serene technical ignorance though (and just for academic interest) what I don't 'get' is how - as some say - it is possible to just rename a .VRO file to .MPG and it will play - but apparently one cannot do it the other way round. Is this simply because even if the data is essentially the same, the .VRO file needs a .IFO and .BUP file present and linked to it? Given all the conversion capabilities out there it is a little surprising that nobody has taken on this challenge and fixed it yet.

Hey-ho - thanks for taking the time to respond.

George
PS While I'm here - what is DV-avi format? How is it different from standard avi? I ask because I do have copy of some software called DVD-MovieAlbumSE from Panasonic which allows one to access a DVD-RAM disk on a PC and edit, etc. It also allows the import of DV-AVI (ie only material that came from a DV camcorder) which the manual says can then be put out to DVD-RAM - clearly this implies as .VRO, as this is the file format that the software manipulates on the DVD-RAM to start with. (This also may be academic, as the import function in the s/w seems disabled). So it just occurred to me that if I could convert from AVI or MPG to "DV-avi" whatever that is, I might fool this programme into letting me burn it to DVD-RAM. I'll read the manual more closely and report back, if anyone can tell me what DV-AVI is as opposed to ordinary AVI and how to convert to it. (Sorry - turned out to be a long PS )

[MysticE]

In my finite lifetime, there will never be enough time for me to learn what I want to know, what I should know, or what I could know. I will not even scratch the surface. The amount of programs on this site is enormous, new ones all the time. I am really comfortable with a few of them. My original post was an attempt for me to learn how to do a conversion. If it can be done I would appreciate the knowledge. I mean no offense, some will be taken though, I'm sure.

How do you convert a VOB file into a VRO file?

thanks for any help

Try the much maligned NeroVision Express. In NVE3 from the opening page choose Make DVD-> Editable DVD.

[gadgetguy]

PS While I'm here - what is DV-avi format? How is it different from standard avi? I ask because I do have copy of some software called DVD-MovieAlbumSE from Panasonic which allows one to access a DVD-RAM disk on a PC and edit, etc. It also allows the import of DV-AVI (ie only material that came from a DV camcorder) which the manual says can then be put out to DVD-RAM - clearly this implies as .VRO, as this is the file format that the software manipulates on the DVD-RAM to start with. (This also may be academic, as the import function in the s/w seems disabled). So it just occurred to me that if I could convert from AVI or MPG to "DV-avi" whatever that is, I might fool this programme into letting me burn it to DVD-RAM. I'll read the manual more closely and report back, if anyone can tell me what DV-AVI is as opposed to ordinary AVI and how to convert to it. (Sorry - turned out to be a long PS )

My return question is: What is "standard" or "ordinary" AVI? AVI is not a format, it is a container capable of holding many different formats, such as Divx, Xvid, Uncompressed, DV-AVI, etc. DV-AVI is a lightly compressed format that consumes about 13 gig of hard drive space per hour of video. It is used in Mini-DV and D8 camcorders and is an excellent format for editing because every frame is a key frame.

[george57l]

gadgetguy

Thanks - well, kinda - as I am not much wiser, I'm afraid. If a file ends in .avi I play it using a media player and it works. If I have some other filetype and use a converter to convert to .avi, it just converts it to a file ending in .avi - which just works, as stated. So as you can see I am not at all educated about containers and the like - gonna have to do some research and reading (which will probably make my brain hurt!).

How would I turn a file (whether some other ".avi", or .mpg or .vob or whatever) into a "DV-AVI" file that the Panasonic software will think is from a camcorder? Any recommended converter s/w that allows a person to specify these different types of .avi file? (or is that the wrong question!)

Thx
George

[guns1inger]

I still don't understand why you have to waste -R discs when RWs work perfectly well and can be re-used hundreds of times ? Why are they not a viable alternative for you ?

[Cornucopia]

I'm not surprised at all that the Panny manual says "no +RW" (as that's not one of the DVD Forum's), but I'm a little surprised that it SPECIFIES "NO -RW". If it doesn't actually specify that, it may still accept/read the media.

Regards "DVD-Video_on_RAM media?", there was a thread back when that opined such a problem, but I think that is quite dependent upon player models. Yours may work OK. Make sure the Video is valid and burned correctly (IMGBurn would probably be a good idea). Only problem I would see is that DVD-Video spec expects UDF v1.02, whereas DVD-RAM media uses a higher version (v1.5 or v2.1, IIRC). If you can get either/or to be burned on there, one might work in place of the other--try each...

Regards Containers and DV-AVI:
MPG2 PS (program stream) is a container. It usually has MPEG1 or MPEG2 encoded video in it (plus some type of encoded audio).
DVD VOB is "MPG2 PS + additional fields for: subs, text, LPCM, navigational stuff"
DVD VRO is "like VOB, but with additional fields for: editing, labelling, markers, etc stuff"
If you just "rename" VOB/VRO->MPG, the app that normally parses VOBs/VROs and understands those additional fields isn't used anymore. Now a different app that only understands the basic MPG stuff is used. Because of backward compatibility, the EXTRA stuff is just ignored.
However, if "rename" an MPG->VOB/VRO, a basic MPG that only has A+V streams in it is used by an app that expects those extra fields to be in there, and THEY AREN'T. If it's a good app, it'll just use the basic material (as if you had just left it as "MPG"); if it's not as well-written, it'll do nothing with it; if it's badly-written, it'll crash.

AVI is a container. It (normally) has a "vids"-labelled encoded video stream in it, and an "auds"-labelled encoded audio stream.
DV-AVI is slightly non-standard.
It's original type (Type 1) doesn't have a "vids" or "auds", it just contains an "ivas"-labelled stream (which is the raw stream captured 1-for-1 from the DV tape's data stream). Most apps don't understand this as they expect a vids and auds. Type1-capable apps know what to do and realize this is just the DV video and DV audio zippered together (along with some other data fields). They internally unzipper it and work with it as normal.
To make things easier for all the other guys, Microsoft made a "Type2" DV-AVI file type.
It contains the same "ivas"/raw DV stream--although this time is has been renamed "vids" to give a hint to those apps about what to do with it--and it has stripped out a COPY of the DV audio and multiplexed alongside the "vids" a separate "auds" stream. So NOW it looks to most apps JUST LIKE a regular AVI.
Unfortunately, now we have 2 types of DV-AVI, so that often is a point of confusion in and of itself.

HTH,
Scott

[george57l]

gunslinger - they are not a viable alternative because my Panny unit's manual does NOT include RW discs in the list of discs it will play (as per the extract from it I posted earlier). But as and when I can lay my hands on a single RW disc of each variety I may give it a go to see if the manual is accurate.

Scott
It specified "no -RW" and "no +RW" by omission - so you may be right - perhaps I should try both a DVD-RW and DVD+RW just to validate one way or the other...so I'll give it a go as above

As for DVD-Video format on DVD-RAM disc - I am pretty sure I have burnt .vob to DVD-RAM before and the Panny threw up - but I need to double check when time allows. But as for different versions of UDF - well this just exposes yet again how little I know and that I need to do some research and self-education (I wouldn't know what a UDF is let alone how to burn different versions - but no need to explain further here, I'll come back to it if I do some initial tests on RW and onve I've retested my current .vob burning capability and what UDF version it might reflect)

The practical reality is that at this point I am more likely to just sigh and burn -R discs than get any deeper into what I can see is a potential technical morass.

The DV-AVI comments you posted only show that as ever there is no such thing as a standard. I have no idea what DV-AVI format the Panasonic DVD-MovieStudioSE software is talking about and at this point I see no need to go there either!

Thanks for everyone's advice - if I do anything from here it will be (a) test some RW discs and (b) see if the Panny will read any form of DVD-Video (.vob) burnt on DVD-RAM disks - if neither of these work I'll just consume some extra -R discs - this is not about the technology for its own sake, at the end of the day, it's about being able to watch some stuff currently on PC, via DVD disc on my Panny.

Thanks everyone.

George