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  1. I don't know about others, but since I'm a Mac guy, I don't waste my time hanging out in thieir forum.

    What does that tell ya.
    There are 10 kinds of people. Those that understand binary and ....

  2. Member OmegaSupreme's Avatar
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    Macs are hi-end machines with hi-end prices, they are not for everyone.

    PCs dominate because they are cheaper.
    VHS won over Beta because it was cheaper.
    Ford sells more cars than Lexus because they are cheaper.
    More people drink beer than champaign because it is cheaper.

    I say let the masses have their bud-lites, I will stick to my Dom Perignon Oenotheque 1990.

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    Originally Posted by terryj
    All I can say is this:
    I troubleshoot both PC and Macs for a living.
    I spend 10 hours a day doing this.
    I also take in outside clients PCs and Macs to fix.

    More often than not, people by nature, are CHEAP.
    And most people who bring me their PCs
    are bringing me beige build it yourselfer PC boxes
    bought from Tiger Electronics or somesuch, and want to
    know if they can run Win XP on a Celeron 700 mhz
    P3, with integrated video and a 12gb HD, all so they can
    play some "cool game" they saw, or learn to "make DVDs,
    like their friends do."

    Most of the Mac people who bring in their machines, just want to do the same thing. Amizingly, the total bottom cost
    always swings in favor of the Mac people, who usually just
    need a little more ram, or a larger HD, say 8 gb to 20GB.
    The PC users, more often than not, end up needing a new
    PC.

    Yes, you pay more for a mac, but you get a heck of a lot more. i've got a pair of Macs ( a 466 and a 533 mhz G4)
    in the shop that are seven years old,
    that run the latest OS ( Panther, 10.37)
    and all it took was doubling the ram, and doubling the
    amount of HD. I can't get a 7 year off the shelf PC
    with a Celeron to run Win XP.

    caveat emperor!
    That's funny! I've got a 700mhz celeron w\256mb ram running XP Pro with a NEC 2500A & no problems and never a crash. It's an old HP desktop.

    You must be doing something wrong.

  4. Member dcsos's Avatar
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    We need both PC's and MACS
    when will everyone realize that they complement each other, and the companies keep each other in check (sort of)

    each platform has enormous strengths
    and unbelievable weaknesses

    Its time to bury the hatchett..Its the only way we'll get any work done on these FLAKEY COMPUTERS

    Those who complain about price of MACs here>>>GET A MINI MAC & upgrade the ram youself

    Those who operate only macs..wake up..you at least need a win machine on your network to check WINDOWS MEDIA fare.....
    cause who needs anything but QT & VLC on yer mac's desktop

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    Originally Posted by soundforbjt
    That's funny! I've got a 700mhz celeron w\256mb ram running XP Pro with a NEC 2500A & no problems and never a crash. It's an old HP desktop.

    You must be doing something wrong.
    I thought it was pretty funny too. I couldn't see anything wrong with running XP (or 2K) on that 700Mhz/256MB RAM setup either.

    I know people happily doing fairly high end video encoding on Duron 800's with 256 & 384MB RAM under XP and W2K with no dramas. Sure it takes about 8 hours to encode one movie but it does it happily with no crashing or other problems... and you can keep working on it while it does it.

    I still do the very same on my spare Duron 800 as well with "only" 384MB RAM. Worked just exactly the same as my 2GHz/512DDR Celeron does now just a bit slower is all.

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    Originally Posted by terryj
    Most of the Mac people who bring in their machines, just want to do the same thing. Amizingly, the total bottom cost
    always swings in favor of the Mac people, who usually just
    need a little more ram, or a larger HD, say 8 gb to 20GB.
    The PC users, more often than not, end up needing a new
    PC.
    That's not really amazing. Since the Mac people spent 3-4 times as much for their machine in the first place the total bottom cost isn't really swinging in favor of the Mac people- they've just paid their costs before getting to that point.

    What I find amazing is the people (like Mark V) who just can't understand why everyone isn't rich enough to spend $2000 on a computer when they can get one that does what they need for $450. Their elitist attitude usually doesn't extend to the rest of their lives and they blithly go along with a superior attitude in ignorance of the real world.

  7. I'm surprised this thread hasn't gotten totally out of control. I liken the topic to saying something like, "Why is there anything other than CCE? Everything else sucks." I have nothing against Mac, I just know more folks have PCs, so that's what I've been concentraing on (A+). To each his own....

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    Originally Posted by fmctm1sw
    I'm surprised this thread hasn't gotten totally out of control. I liken the topic to saying something like, "Why is there anything other than CCE? Everything else sucks."
    HEY!! Don't you go round dissin' my TMPGEnc or I'll have your head!!

    You just can't go round mouthing off whatever you want - next you know it you'll be starting a flame war!! ;-P

  9. As someone who owns both a mac and 3 pcs I feel Im qualified to say that both are good at what they do(video editing, graphics manipulation and on the pc dvd creation).Ive had a titanium G4 mac for 4 years now and its great for video editing, alterations and manipulation.
    Back then the mac was streets ahead of the pc as far as power and reliability were concerned.
    Now the 3 pcs that I run (athlon 2200xp/athlon 2600xp/PIV 3.2) are all stable-no crashes this year so far-can do all and more than the mac.
    think how many software producers have stopped supporting the mac with some but not all of their products (adobe as a prime example).
    The mac back then cost in excess of 5000 ($9500in todays conversion).
    This included a Media 100 realtime board, to upgrade today to run panther will cost me over 2300 ($4000+). Now for that kind of cash, what do you think I will be doing with my Mac?
    With the availability of software and the competitive price of components unfortunately the mac seems to be destined to sit in my office and used only when really needed.
    I loved the mac at first as it was what I needed and was one of the only things that could do what I wanted it to do.
    Now PCs are equally as good and the Macs just seem like poor value for money

  10. What I find amazing is that the general idea is that Macintosh machines aren't prone to virus attacks, or that there are ANY Mac viruses out there. This is entirely NOT true. As someone that works daily with a Mac at work, and has been active in the anti-virus sector for PC, Mac and Amiga, I can tell you that there ARE viruses for the Mac. Good thing is however, that Mac users don't spend so much time in making them as PC users do.

    So there are far less of them. That doesn't make them less dangerous. On the contrary, since most Mac users think there aren't any. Want proof that there are viruses out there? Check http://www.icsalabs.com/html/communities/antivirus/macintosh/archives/macvirus/referen...e/viruses.html and your dream of a virus free system is gone.

    As someone else here allready added, PC and Macs can go hand in hand. Neither system is stable since it is man-made. Our Mac is an Avid video editing system and when in use is known to crash now and again. Sad thing with the Mac is that when it crashes, unsaved work is lost. With the PC, there is always a backdoor. Either through taskmanager or some other means. However, nobody escapes the BlueScreenOfDeath...

    Discussions on what is better are furthermore useless because if you like to drive a mercedes, that is fine... if you think driving one is great and comfortable and you enjoy it. If you like to drive a Fiat Uno, fine too... People should decide to use that system which best suites his or her needs and with which he or she thinks is easiest for him or her to work with. THAT is the bottom line. That is also what should have come out of a rant like that article that started this discussion. The days that you used to use Mac for graphical purposes, an IBM PC for administrative purposes and an Amiga for video purposes is loooong gone.

    MY two cents worth... which will probably be chewed up and spitted out by people that will only see their own opinions and don't allow others to have theirs.. I care not. Do with this what you will, I for one am going to spend the rest of my day for the better Cheers all. 8)

  11. Member Gillies's Avatar
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    i'v been a pc user my whole life and i bought myself an ibook about a month ago and i'm never going back... to have a computer that actually works without getting viruses, spyware, crashes or an operating system that gets in the way. cant believe how well this thing works. however if mac still had the majority of the marketshare than there would be viruses and spyware for it. it's like the internet explorer/firefox comparison. as firefox becomes more dominant it'll start to get more spyware etc. that said windows is inferior to mac osx in many ways. the only reason i see to get an x86 pc is for gaming, which sadly, x86 is superior, not in hardware however, but support by developers

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    PC's are cheaper, and for a good reason. You may save $ now, but you will pay later. Enjoy virus hunting and error messages. I'll stay with my friends @ Apple.
    A picture is worth a thousand words, but a good camera is worth about a thousand bucks.

  13. PC's are cheaper because the hardware and system open to competition. Despite what you Mac zealots rant about, for a top end system, you can get significantly superior performance on a PC. Performance is hardly simply based on just the CPU but also on the chipset, RAM, video card, etc.

    On the PC scene, the technology you can build a computer with is almost always one generation ahead of the Mac.

    As for G5's smoking the PC scene, look at independent testing over a number of different programs. The G5's do not smoke anything. GHz for GHz, the Athlon64 and Opteron line of processors have superior performance to the G5. And of course, the P4s run at much higher GHz than both the G5 and A64.

    I currently use a A64 system as a desktop and a PIII Coppermine laptop using Windows XP SP2. They are extremely stable machines. I can't remember the last time either system crashed for no reason. Yes, Windows is not as secure as OS X -- but with common sense, the inbuilt Windows firewall and AVG (all free), I have never been infected with one worm or virus in either machine. If this is the price to pay for using the dominant consumer platform with the newest and greatest hardware as well as the largest popular software base, then I'm willing to accept that.

    Furthermore, the PC platform is hardware Microsoft dependent. Don't like Windows? Then use one of the myriad of other X86 based operating systems (e.g., Linux, FreeBSD, etc.)

    Regards.
    Michael Tam
    w: Morsels of Evidence

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    There is so much misinformation on both sides, it boggles the mind. Maybe some of it is just bad grammar. That seems to come out a lot when anger is involved.
    If it isn't broken, take it apart and find out why.
    blog: deadsierra

  15. Member decay's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DRP
    They described them as being "cult-like" because they have devotion to something obscure and non-mainstream beyond reason. ie. they will not accept that something else is better regardless of how much evidence is put in front of them. They have lost the ability to reason so they can remain in their exclusive little world or clique.

    I don't think it's that much of a stretch to say that Mac users are dangerously close to fitting that description as well.
    I think it's fair to say that describes hard-core Windows defenders as well.

    How can you reason your way out of the weakness of the Windows OS? Don't talk about price for a moment - just performance. Windows is just inferior, there's no emotional attachment to that statement.

    Most PC users are just afraid of what they don't understand, and they believe the crap that has been fed to them over the years. That link to a page of Mac viruses showed when the last Mac virus was reported.

    Show me ONE OS X virus - just one. There aren't any.

    It is a good article, because it shows that people will put up with an amazing amount of BS with their computer because "it's what everyone I know uses and gee, Macs are too expensive." It's probably because they can pirate Office from work or a friend.

    dk

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    Originally Posted by decay
    Originally Posted by DRP
    They described them as being "cult-like" because they have devotion to something obscure and non-mainstream beyond reason. ie. they will not accept that something else is better regardless of how much evidence is put in front of them. They have lost the ability to reason so they can remain in their exclusive little world or clique.

    I don't think it's that much of a stretch to say that Mac users are dangerously close to fitting that description as well.
    I think it's fair to say that describes hard-core Windows defenders as well.

    How can you reason your way out of the weakness of the Windows OS? Don't talk about price for a moment - just performance. Windows is just inferior, there's no emotional attachment to that statement.

    Most PC users are just afraid of what they don't understand, and they believe the crap that has been fed to them over the years. That link to a page of Mac viruses showed when the last Mac virus was reported.

    Show me ONE OS X virus - just one. There aren't any.

    It is a good article, because it shows that people will put up with an amazing amount of BS with their computer because "it's what everyone I know uses and gee, Macs are too expensive." It's probably because they can pirate Office from work or a friend.

    dk
    You are so narrow-minded, it is pathetic.

    I have used both, and I prefer pc.

    I can build a pc because the architecture is open.

    I cannot build a mac because it is closed source.

    There have been OS -X viruses, and there have been security holes.

    It is just a computer so please try to refrain from making ignorant statements.

  17. Member OmegaSupreme's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by azalin1975
    So there are far less of them. That doesn't make them less dangerous. On the contrary, since most Mac users think there aren't any. Want proof that there are viruses out there? Check http://www.icsalabs.com/html/communities/antivirus/macintosh/archives/macvirus/referen...e/viruses.html and your dream of a virus free system is gone.
    Have you actually read this list? Most of the viruses listed are more than a decade old I doubt they would have any effect on a modern OSX system. If fact, none of the viruses listed are native to OSX. The one relevant virus strain that is listed is the Microsoft macro-viruses that exploit Word and Excel. Unfortunately, even on a Mac, you are not safe from Microsoft security holes. Damn Microsoft for spreading this plague

  18. Member Faustus's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bazooka
    Originally Posted by decay
    Originally Posted by DRP
    They described them as being "cult-like" because they have devotion to something obscure and non-mainstream beyond reason. ie. they will not accept that something else is better regardless of how much evidence is put in front of them. They have lost the ability to reason so they can remain in their exclusive little world or clique.

    I don't think it's that much of a stretch to say that Mac users are dangerously close to fitting that description as well.
    I think it's fair to say that describes hard-core Windows defenders as well.

    How can you reason your way out of the weakness of the Windows OS? Don't talk about price for a moment - just performance. Windows is just inferior, there's no emotional attachment to that statement.

    Most PC users are just afraid of what they don't understand, and they believe the crap that has been fed to them over the years. That link to a page of Mac viruses showed when the last Mac virus was reported.

    Show me ONE OS X virus - just one. There aren't any.

    It is a good article, because it shows that people will put up with an amazing amount of BS with their computer because "it's what everyone I know uses and gee, Macs are too expensive." It's probably because they can pirate Office from work or a friend.

    dk
    You are so narrow-minded, it is pathetic.

    I have used both, and I prefer pc.

    I can build a pc because the architecture is open.

    I cannot build a mac because it is closed source.

    There have been OS -X viruses, and there have been security holes.

    It is just a computer so please try to refrain from making ignorant statements.
    I have used and continue to use both. Both have their uses. I enjoy being dual platform. But if you rang me up tomorrow and said "hey buddy, pick one. Choose or lose!" I'd take the mac in a heart beat.

    If I can only have one I'll pick the one I dont have to reformat every 3 to 6 months.

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    Originally Posted by Flaystus
    If I can only have one I'll pick the one I dont have to reformat every 3 to 6 months.
    Sorry, but your reasoning does not fly.

    My computers will go two or more years without a reformat.

    If I can go two years without reformatting, anyone can.

  20. Member Faustus's Avatar
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    Sure if you never install any software. Windows starts to drag badly. Its true. It bloats by nature of being. Why do you think they now let you limit the registry size?

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    Originally Posted by vitualis
    PC's are cheaper because the hardware and system open to competition. Despite what you Mac zealots rant about, for a top end system, you can get significantly superior performance on a PC. Performance is hardly simply based on just the CPU but also on the chipset, RAM, video card, etc.

    On the PC scene, the technology you can build a computer with is almost always one generation ahead of the Mac.

    As for G5's smoking the PC scene, look at independent testing over a number of different programs. The G5's do not smoke anything. GHz for GHz, the Athlon64 and Opteron line of processors have superior performance to the G5. And of course, the P4s run at much higher GHz than both the G5 and A64.

    I currently use a A64 system as a desktop and a PIII Coppermine laptop using Windows XP SP2. They are extremely stable machines. I can't remember the last time either system crashed for no reason. Yes, Windows is not as secure as OS X -- but with common sense, the inbuilt Windows firewall and AVG (all free), I have never been infected with one worm or virus in either machine. If this is the price to pay for using the dominant consumer platform with the newest and greatest hardware as well as the largest popular software base, then I'm willing to accept that.

    Furthermore, the PC platform is hardware Microsoft dependent. Don't like Windows? Then use one of the myriad of other X86 based operating systems (e.g., Linux, FreeBSD, etc.)

    Regards.
    I have to agree on all of that 100%

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    Originally Posted by bazooka
    Originally Posted by Flaystus
    If I can only have one I'll pick the one I dont have to reformat every 3 to 6 months.
    Sorry, but your reasoning does not fly.

    My computers will go two or more years without a reformat.

    If I can go two years without reformatting, anyone can.
    Two years without a fresh OS install? Thats crazy. Thats called a frankenstein OS.

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    Originally Posted by Flaystus
    Sure if you never install any software. Windows starts to drag badly. Its true. It bloats by nature of being. Why do you think they now let you limit the registry size?
    I install software all the time, and I know how to fix the bloat.

    I am just some nobody that knows how to fix things.

    There is no reason you have to reformat that frequently unless you just love to start from scratch again.

    When I reformat, it takes me three days to get it back to the way I want it.

  24. Member Faustus's Avatar
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    Yeah that it, I dont know how to fix it.

  25. Member dcsos's Avatar
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    2 years or 2 months it doesn't matter..

    What windows users don't understand is that you don't need to reformat your Mac ever.

    Unless you want to upgrade (10.1 to 10.3 or such).
    I'm not saying the MAC is perfect.
    Its just not hideously flawed

    That Said, I sill have a preponderance of WINTEL machines over here.
    I am constantly tinkering with the OS'es to keep them working at a
    speed that my Mac only dreams about

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    Originally Posted by mattyboy
    Two years without a fresh OS install? Thats crazy. Thats called a frankenstein OS.
    Nope



    It is called being anal about computers.

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    Originally Posted by dcsos
    I'm not saying the MAC is perfect.
    Its just not hideously flawed
    You must not read the computer news much.

    There have been huge holes in Mac's OS and Apple repairs them.

    Microsoft repairs the holes in windows.

  28. Member dcsos's Avatar
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    There have been huge holes in Mac's OS
    Yeah but this kind of simple upgrading didn't force us to reformat anything.
    When we Mac users reformat, we can copy the OS off the drive , reformat, and then put the os back!

    This by copying with a RIGHT CLICK (no imaging programs are required on MAC) Try to copy a windows OS while its running (NO CAN DO!)

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    Originally Posted by dcsos
    There have been huge holes in Mac's OS
    Yeah but this kind of simple upgrading didn't force us to reformat anything.
    When we Mac users reformat, we can copy the OS off the drive , reformat, and then put the os back!

    This by copying with a RIGHT CLICK (no imaging programs are required on MAC) Try to copy a windows OS while its running (NO CAN DO!)
    You contradicted yourself.

    Originally Posted by dcsos
    I'm not saying the MAC is perfect.
    Its just not hideously flawed.
    This was from September of last year.
    http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1643902,00.asp
    Originally Posted by eweek
    Apple Computer Inc. has issued a patch for 15 security flaws in its Mac OS X operating system, including many originating in the software's open-source components.
    Originally Posted by dcsos
    Yeah but this kind of simple upgrading
    I have just proven you wrong.

  30. Member dcsos's Avatar
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    "You contradicted yourself. "
    no I didn't I said the Mac isn't perfect

    But how many times have you had to replace your OS? You said you had gone 2 years without reformatting?

    How's that machine working?
    Missing .dll's ?
    Doesn't Auto-Update anymore?
    Just won't recognize new hardware?

    I feel your pain !
    (as I once again re-iterate that I use 3 PC's over here ) but am more impressed with the way my 2 macs "hang in there"




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