Whats the best recorder for LP video quality?

[lordsmurf]

Here's a link to some tests I ran months ago on this subject.

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=228869&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=60

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=992693#992693

I think your "Ice Age" tests are skewed results. The PLAYBACK of a JVC disc on the Panasonic may result in a brighter output based on the output settings of the player, which are brighter by nature. This is done because the Panasonic has some gamma/luminance/IRE flaws that I'm looking into. It goes along with the suggested settings on the Panasonic tips sticky.

This is something I did not know about back in July when you did that post.

It also failed to compare the Panasonic recording to a JVC recording. So we have a one-sided test happening.

DVD player output is an interesting animal to deal with.

[jrh1194]

I think we are all amused by "experts" that spout off fairy tales about machines they know nothing about. Truly accurate research would show that Panasonic, Sony & Philips would be at the top of a comparison for video quality. No doubt JVC and Liteon would be at the bottom. True research for reliability would further show the same 3 major names (Panasonic, Sony & Philips) at the top and once again JVC & Liteon at the very bottom. Although I am sure that the "experts" this forum would disagree. Yes you are right on one thing, it is amusing! Keep laughing and keep dealing with inferior video, loading problems and crap equipment!!

[gshelley61]

Here's a link to some tests I ran months ago on this subject.

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=228869&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=60

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=992693#992693

I think your "Ice Age" tests are skewed results. The PLAYBACK of a JVC disc on the Panasonic may result in a brighter output based on the output settings of the player, which are brighter by nature. This is done because the Panasonic has some gamma/luminance/IRE flaws that I'm looking into. It goes along with the suggested settings on the Panasonic tips sticky.

This is something I did not know about back in July when you did that post.

It also failed to compare the Panasonic recording to a JVC recording. So we have a one-sided test happening.

DVD player output is an interesting animal to deal with.

I agree. I wish I still had the Panny around to do a one on one test. I don't even know which output black level setting I had selected on the Panny when I used it to play back the JVC recordings. Plus, the MPEG playback noise reduction on the Panny would soften the picture a little more than it actually was, too. I should have used a different player... plus, I captured the test frames with my AverMedia card, which is really noisy (hence the vertical lines).

You're right about gamma and black level. They are not the same thing. Gamma is analogous to equalization curves in audio... sort of a video response curve, if you will. Black level is simply the setting of the lowest video output level desired (like during a fade to black transition) whether that is 0 IRE or 7.5 IRE, etc.

Black Level = Brightness
Luma (Video Gain) = Contrast
Chroma Gain = Color Saturation
Chroma Phase = Hue, Tint, White Balance

Anyway, it's interesting how emotional people get about this stuff. :P

[lordsmurf]

It is my belief that Panasonic has "fixed" the dreaded IRE level by allowing the user to augment the gamma (or possibly luminance) settings. Very disturbing, and I may go temporarily borrow a machine from somebody to examine this further. It never really struck me until about a week ago.

It's like water in a leaky bucket. Rather than fix the leak, they tried to just move the water. Doesn't quite work. Maybe a bad analogy, but I don't know how else to explain it.

[ejai]

You can say what you want the eyes don't lie. 8)

[ejai]

It is my belief that Panasonic has "fixed" the dreaded IRE level by allowing the user to augment the gamma (or possibly luminance) settings. Very disturbing, and I may go temporarily borrow a machine from somebody to examine this further. It never really struck me until about a week ago.

It's like water in a leaky bucket. Rather than fix the leak, they tried to just move the water. Doesn't quite work. Maybe a bad analogy, but I don't know how else to explain it.

I owned the E30 when the black level issue was first brought to light. I now own the E50 which has fixed this problem. The Panasonic gives the video a much more truer black, while the JVC shows more like a resin black. I have noticed that one website was reviewing dvd recorders and one of the issues that were brought up was wether the recorders showed true black.

The Panasonic was one of the top recorders due to the true black color (among other features). I am trying to locate this site again, if I find it I will post it here.

[jrh1194]

ejai,
You are wasting your time...He will not or cannot understand. We all know he is wrong. But thanks for trying, and keep enjoying your Panasonic, I know that the rest of us will too !!!

[samijubal]

I dumped the JVC and kept the Panasonic. I would have rather kept the JVC, the E-10 I am using only records RAM, but the JVC has far too many faults for me.

[brand1]

The Pioneer allows manual recording speeds(don't know about the others) Looks like a recorder with this ability fits with what you want to do. MN 32-MN 1 (61m-360m)

MN 18 - 2hr 30m
MN 17 - 2hr 40m
MN 16 - 2hr 50m
MN 15 - 3hr
MN 14 - 3hr 10m
MN 13 - 3hr 20m
etc

[bnbhoha]

Looks like Panny's new model will have a newer encoder check that

"Improved horizontal resolution in LP mode renders images twice as sharp as last year's models, delivering up to 500 lines. A new 12-bit analog-to-digital converter provides high bit, high rate sampling to convey even subtle nuances and produce smooth, beautiful recordings with astounding depth. "






http://www.onecall.com/NewAndHot.mpt?ProductID=26657

Panasonic DMREH50 DVD Recorder with 80GB Hard Drive and SD Slot

New Picture-Enhancing Technology Delivers Stunning Digital Video Quality with Over 500 Lines of Horizontal Resolution in LP Mode

LAS VEGAS, NV (January 5, 2005) - Affirming its industry-leading position in recordable DVD products, Panasonic introduces three new DIGAd DVD recorders that offer consumers unsurpassed DVD recording and playback flexibility. The line's newest feature is lightning-fast response in start-up, recording and Electronic Program Guide display ― as quick as 1 second.

Improved horizontal resolution in LP mode renders images twice as sharp as last year's models, delivering up to 500 lines. A new 12-bit analog-to-digital converter provides high bit, high rate sampling to convey even subtle nuances and produce smooth, beautiful recordings with astounding depth.

The three new models, DMR-ES10, DMR-ES30V and DMR-EH50, have added DVD-RW (video format) and +R recording, and +RW playback capability, for enhanced compatibility with personal computers and DVD players.

Panasonic DIGA DVD recorders offer all the benefits of the DVD-RAM format, like simultaneous recording and playback, random access, Chasing Playback, on-disc editing, and multi-format data compatibility that lets you record TV programs and still pictures, said Alberto Reggiani, Panasonic national marketing manager. Now, with expanded multi-format recording and playback capability, they also let consumers enjoy all their DVDs, no matter which format they choose.

All three models also record DVD-RAM, DVD-R, +R and DVD-RW discs; and can play back DVD-RAM, DVD-R1, +R1, DVD-RW1, +RW1, DVD-Audio, DVD-video, video CD, audio CD (CD-DA), and CD-R/RW2 MP3**/JPEG formatted discs.

Model DMR-ES30V includes all the features of the DMR-ES10 and adds a built-in VHS VCR.

The DMR-EH50 features a 100GB3 hard disk drive, offering users up to 177 hours4 of recording time. The TV Guide On Screend Program Guide makes recording TV programs as easy as using a PVR, only without subscription fees or telephone line hook-up. It also features a new, Smart Wheeld user-friendly remote control to quickly find recorded programs and start playback faster than ever (200x quick search and fast-forward smooth search.)

The DMR-EH50's built-in SD Memory Card slot5 and SD viewer for JPEG images allow fast, easy networking and file sharing between the DVD recorder and many personal computers, digital cameras and camcorders, and other SD-enabled A/V devices, such as Panasonic's line of fully integrated VIERA plasma displays.

With its multiple format compatibility and SD slot, the DMR-EH50 clearly expresses Panasonic's 'Lifestream' product concept ― whole-life connectivity, anytime, anyplace, and ability to share multimedia content via a 'ubiquitous network' of interoperable products, said Reggiani.



About Panasonic Consumer Electronics Company

Based in Secaucus, N.J., Panasonic Consumer Electronics Company is a Division of Panasonic Corporation of North America, the principal North American subsidiary of Matsushita Electric Industrial Co. Ltd. (NYSE: MC) and the hub of Panasonic's U.S. marketing, sales, service and R&D operations. Information about Panasonic products is available at www.panasonic.com. Additional company information for journalists is available at www.panasonic.com/pressroom or through the company's toll-free fax-back system at 888-734-7490.



MODEL AVAILABILITY MSRP***
DMR-ES10 April 2005 $249.95
DMR-ES30V with VHS VCR May 2005 $349.95
DMR-EH50 with Hard Disk Drive May 2005 $499.95

[gshelley61]

This info about the new Panasonics was posted weeks ago in another thread...

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=252204&highlight=

[STUNYC]

From CNET.COM - The Panasonic DMR-ES30V scored exceptional marks in our resolution tests. The DMR-ES30V delivered more than 450 lines of horizontal resolution--the video output of a typical DVD player--in its high-quality one- and two-hour recording modes; no surprise there. However, the deck hit almost the same score in its four-hour LP mode, quite a feat considering that the other recorders we've tested struggled to reach 325 lines in LP mode.


// Do not make posts in extra-large letters.
// Please stick to normal-sized text for posts. Thanks!
// -moderator lordsmurf

[lordsmurf]

The LP mode on the "new DIGA line" of ES10 and ES30 is still crap:
https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=265528

All Panasonic has succeeded in doing is making macroblocks at twice the resolution of the old system. Visibly, there is almost no discerning an "old" Panasonic LP and "new" Panasonic LP. While the new one may have "more detail" it is still obscured by a pile of blocks and large chunks of mosquito noise.

C|NET reviews are often quite worthless on video tech.

[kenmasters83]

my ILO with hacked firmware has got excellent LP mode video quality i put 2 1 hour and 30 minute movies on the same disk using the ILO dvdrhd04 and the quality is excellent!!

these were movies recorded off cable..

[richdvd]

It is my belief that Panasonic has "fixed" the dreaded IRE level by allowing the user to augment the gamma (or possibly luminance) settings. Very disturbing, and I may go temporarily borrow a machine from somebody to examine this further. It never really struck me until about a week ago.

It's like water in a leaky bucket. Rather than fix the leak, they tried to just move the water. Doesn't quite work. Maybe a bad analogy, but I don't know how else to explain it.

I owned the E30 when the black level issue was first brought to light. I now own the E50 which has fixed this problem. The Panasonic gives the video a much more truer black, while the JVC shows more like a resin black. I have noticed that one website was reviewing dvd recorders and one of the issues that were brought up was wether the recorders showed true black.

The Panasonic was one of the top recorders due to the true black color (among other features). I am trying to locate this site again, if I find it I will post it here.

I have the E55...and the problem has been fixed.
So this is no longer an issue with Panasonic recorders.

[LCSHG]

I agree with [kenmasters83] I also have the ILo RHD04. With the hack firmware. It works GREAT IN LP [3 hr] In fact [IN THE REAL WORLD]I don't think you could tell the difference from SP [2 hr] As to converting VHS to DVD I have tried all the options, PC, capture cards, etc all with questionable results. With the hack this unit is flawless and
[SIMPLE]

[kabanero]

I had LiteOn 5001 (LSI chip), now I have JVC M10S (LSI chip). So, let's put it this way: LSI based DVD recorders produce the best video quality in LP mode. And when you use FireWire transfer from DV camcorder in XP mode, video quality is the same as source. Period.

BTW,

There is new model DR-M100S.

http://www.jvc.com/product.jsp?modelId=MODL027381&pathId=115&page=1

tha selles for $229 at B&H

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home;jsessionid=CyrSqbXPph!-1631402178?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=374578&i s=REG

[handyguy]

VHS isn't very high resolution, so it looks fine to me in LP mode.

[LCSHG]

I'm sure there are others that will argue over firewire, chipsets or video quality. [IN THE REAL WORLD] I will stand on my previous post and that of [kenmasters89] and [handyguy]. The ILO made by LiteON is one of the best. It does a very good job. VHS to DVD. Rrecording etc. Its effective and as I said [ITS SIMPLE]

The comment Below is from a system review.

Trying to archive and transfer analog video to digital mediums can be one of the most frustrating processes for A/V enthusiasts. If using a computer, you will need a dedicated capture device, various software applications, and a multitude of compression codecs. If that is not bad enough, you will get to tweak audio-to-video synchronization rates, sound levels, de-interlacing options, compression bitrates, and a near endless list of other settings. The process becomes even more convoluted when transferring video to disc. Did you save in the correct compression format, frames per second rate, and pixel resolution?

[Bix]

I've got to chime in with another recommendation for JVC. The LP and Half D1 FR modes have blown me away. Test clips (RARed MPVs) recorded on the DR-M10S from a 16 year-old LP VHS tape which was recorded off a C-Band dish:

SP: http://bix.shiningwizard.com.nyud.net:8090/jvc/sp.rar
LP: http://bix.shiningwizard.com.nyud.net:8090/jvc/lp.rar
FR130: http://bix.shiningwizard.com.nyud.net:8090/jvc/fr130.rar
FR155: http://bix.shiningwizard.com.nyud.net:8090/jvc/fr155.rar
FR185: http://bix.shiningwizard.com.nyud.net:8090/jvc/fr185.rar

In my opinion, FR155 > FR185 > SP = LP > FR130.

[LCSHG]

hockeytown9321

To answer your original question [ lordsmurm QUOTE] Use what you like best is always solid advice.

If your primary purpose is to transfer VHS tape to DVD and general recording. It would be hard to beat the ILO, It is very hackable and the hack is simple to install. Remember, If you use commercial tapes. VHS is plagued by Macrovision. If you can't get rid of MV many of your tapes will be unrecordable. The ILO with the Hack and in SP or LP does an outstanding job.

[guitarman} Has posted often that he uses two units one of them an ILO. His reasoning makes sence.

[xiaNaix]

I've got to chime in with another recommendation for JVC. The LP and Half D1 FR modes have blown me away. Test clips (RARed MPVs) recorded on the DR-M10S from a 16 year-old LP VHS tape which was recorded off a C-Band dish:

In my opinion, FR155 > FR185 > SP = LP > FR130.

Nice comparison clips! I have a collection of old WWF stuff from that same era (and earlier) on Beta tapes. They'll be getting trasferred via the JVC someday soon.

[D'oh!]

It seems that a JVC vs. Panasonic WAR breaks out in every thread. I think we all know by now that LordSmurf hates panny and all panny users hate him I wish we could just stick to the facts and offer REAL information. I think many owners of a DVD recorder simply defend the recorder "brand" they have invested in regardless of the facts.

I have not yet seen a perfect (or even NEAR perfect) DVD recorder when it comes to Picture Quality beyond 2 hours. I doubt this will ever change because it's a STORAGE problem more than anything else. There's only so much you can do to try to keep an image sharp and clear when compressing it to fit on the limited space available on a single layer disk. It's actually pretty rediculous that current DVD recorders offer 6,8, even 10 hours on a single layer disk.

What we are all actually craving is expanded media space. Dual Layer, Hidef, Blue Ray, etc. Hopefully we will see prices on Dual Layer media drop and Recorders begin to support it. Then we can think in terms of getting 4 hours of SP on a disk. When the media changes you are going to be dumbfounded that you ever actually settled for SQUASHING 4-6 hours of video on a single layer disk with a so-so encoder. Rediculous! Great LP mode on 4GB media is never gonna happen... ever.

If I were forced to choose something today to use in LP mode, I would say that the ILO/LiteOn recorders do the best job of VHS noise "cleanup" that I have seen. It's not my opinion, it's a fact. Pioneer works really well because of the manual recording modes which allow you to adjust the compression to the space available on the disk. This is very important for higher quality modes in the 1-3 hour range but will not do much good after that. Again, it's a media/space thing and not the recorders fault. The Pioneer doesn't do a great job of "clean-up" and is a bit too "sensitive" when it comes to video drop-outs on VHS and other serious video noise.
ILO/LiteOn also have the MacroVision "hack" advantage which makes it a wise choice if you own a lot of old prerecorded VHS.

I have very little experience with the JVC or Panasonic, but as I said, you can only expect so much from ANY recorder at LP. JVC seems to clean the video up a bit more than the panny (but does very SLIGHTLY soften things) and LordSmurf is telling the truth when it comes to macroblocks. Things can get pretty "blocky" rather quickly on the panny when you start squashing more stuff on the disk.

So, if I were choosing a video recorder to transfer my VHS to DVD from TODAYS crop of recorders (single sided dinosaurs) I'd spend as little as possible and grab the bargain priced DVDR04 ILO. It delivers a very CLEAN image and can disable macrovision.

My real advice would be to not use any mode lower than SP on current machines for anything you really care about. When the media changes and we get new recorders... SP will become the new LP

D'oh!

[gshelley61]

Pioneer has a couple of dual layer capable DVD recorders coming out soon for the Japanese market. That will help with the storage problem.

Of course, if you have a dual layer DVD burner in your PC already, you could simply record your longer projects on two DVD-RW's... then join and re-author the resulting MPEG2 files to a 8.5GB dual layer writable disc.

However, that is costly. Dual layer media is still expensive. For very long videos (over 2.5 hours), I just split it on to two DVD-R's since they are so cheap these days.

[zenzen1]

I have owned a Panasonic DMR-E50 for some time now, and it has been bulletproof. PQ has been excellent. But I believed the many posts about how wonderful the JVC recorder was, and being able to get it at a good price, I purchased one last month. During the time I had both the Panny DMR-50 and the JVC DR-M10 I took the chance to do a bit of A-B testing, and on every test, the Panny displayed a sharper, more colourful picture. So, back to the Good Guys shop with the JVC, and came back home with a Panny DMR-E55 for the downstairs studio. Flexable Recording mode without having to set up a timer, etc.
Sure I'll admit that quality drops if you're not recording in XP or SP mode. It happens on most recorders. FR looks OK up to 2.5 to maybe 3 hours, but why would anyone want to squeeze more onto a disc anyway???? So what if the JVC does a better job in the 3 and 4 hour modes? Blank discs are so cheap now, there is no point in doing a squeeze. Most of my cable (docco) recordings are 1 hour, so XP mode is used. Most movies are under 2 hours, so SP or FR mode is used. Lastly, I have only a normal sized lounge room, and my TV is a Panasonic 76cm HiDef widescreen 200a. I don't stand up close to the set and look for macroblocks. Maybe the slagging of Panny's is what you've seen of them in NTSC. We all know that PAL displays a better picture, so is that part of the problem? The IRE black problem does not seem to exist with PAL Panasonic machines, and does not even get a mention in the onscreen menus (nothing to set or adjust) or in the manual.

I did have the unusual opportunity (before returning the JVC back to the store) of comparing the two results. I carefully recorded identical video transmission from SD televison (good clean PAL source), using the same settings (XP and SP) on both machines, and using identical media (dvd-ram). I then transferred the VRO files to my computer, and compared them side by side, frame by frame, using Virtual Dub, one of the few applications in which you can load two (or more) separate sessions at one time. So I loaded the Panny VRO file in one session of Virtual Dub, and the JVC VRO file in the next session of Virtual dub, resized the two sessions on my 21" screen, and began a frame by frame comparison. You can be sure you are comparing the exact same frames, as Virtual Dub has a GO TO option, and you type in the frame number.

Having just spent some dollars on the JVC unit (and already owning a Panny DMR-50), and after all I had read about the JVC, I really wanted it to be better, but in every frame I compared, the Panny showed a sharper, more colourful picture, compared to the dull JVC output. In one part of the video, there was a shot of some distant houses (news report), and some of the houses had corrugated roofing. On the Panny's video you could just make out the lines of the corrugated roofing, but in the same frame on the JVC, it looked like a slab roof (no texture), further proof that the JVC is slightly smoothing the vision.

Bottem Line: Whatever Floats Ya Boat...But for me, the Eyes do not lie !!

[zorankarapancev]

Bottem Line: Whatever Floats Ya Boat...But for me, the Eyes do not lie !!

You should check the LP recording of the new Panasonic DVD recorders. Their new 12-bit A/D converter and completely redesign hardware-software integration make the old 10-bit technology obsolete.

The Panasonic has just dethrone Sony, and if nobody comes this year with better technology, the title “The Best DVD Recorder 2005” will go to Panasonic.

[samijubal]

Chalk me up on the Panasonic too. Far better than the lousy JVC that I dumped for $150 loss just to get the thing out of my house. I can't see why anyone would want to use LP either, discs are dirt cheap. Why spend all that money on a recorder capable of high quality video and then waste it on LP to save a few pennies?

[lordsmurf]

the Panny displayed a sharper, more colourful picture.

Translation: Sharpness means more than cleanliness. Blocks and mosquito noise are acceptable.

Translation: The overly dark gamma of the Panasonic gives a false impression of "deeper" colors. Common way to fool human eyes, well known trick to photographers worldwide. But incorrect and not accurate. It will obscure darker objects and deepen the lights.

But if you want that, go for it. Just understand your traditional VHS and cable/satellite/tv are medium resolution anyway. It's not a super-sharp source.

You should check the LP recording of the new Panasonic DVD recorders. Their new 12-bit A/D converter and completely redesign hardware-software integration make the old 10-bit technology obsolete.

I don't think so. The problems that have plagued Panasonic for years still exist in the ES10. I have one sitting on my desk here. It's just that they make blocky video at 704x480 instead of blocky video at 352x480. It's just a poor encoder, does not handle medium/lower res or medium/lower bitrate well at all.

I can't see why anyone would want to use LP either, discs are dirt cheap. Why spend all that money on a recorder capable of high quality video and then waste it on LP to save a few pennies?

It has nothing to do with savings of money. I buy discs by the hundreds. My motto is always "it takes what it takes" when it comes to working on something.

But not all content squeezes into a 120 minute time frame. I'm not going to split a project up across multi discs or bloat a multi-disc project out to 100 discs just to appease a piece of crap recorder.

Also, the 704x480 resolution is a total waste. The LP (4-hour) is supposed to be about the same as SP (2-hour) mode, just half the resolution. The 3-hour range is supposed to be a very high high bitrate allocation at 352, much like 1-hour is for 704. On many recorders, this is true, or close to it. Sadly some recorders cannot handle medium bitrates or medium resolutions very well at all. Those are inferior.

Again, it has nothing to do with money. It's about using the DVD spec to my settings, not because the recorder sucks at everything but 1-2 rigid settings.

Bottem Line: Whatever Floats Ya Boat...But for me, the Eyes do not lie !!

Perfect advice. In order to find the best machine, buy many, compare them, and return the losers to the store. Give your credit card some exercise, you do not need to have $$$$ in hand upfront. Return the unwanted ones before your next statement comes in. Use a zero-balance card so you do not get hit by interest on the temp purchase.

[LCSHG]

I have An ILO And If I didn't think does an outstanding job I would have dumpt it. Your observation and comments are well taken

I wanted a VCR and a DVD to work with the ILO and to take in a RV. I had two Panasonic VCR's. Against all negative opinions, I bought a Go Video VCR/DVD combo unit. Guess what. I think the VCR worked better than the Panasonic, or as good. In fact, prior to the ILO 1194 firmware upgrade, on DVD playback It worked better than the ILO [green tint]. I have an ILO, Apex Cyberhome. and the Go Video, My neighbor has a JVC DVD and for what we do, both he and I, could not see a difference. For VHS transfer to DVD, the ILO, with hack, is hands down the best

I have a DL DVD in my PC and I still split A long video onto two disks.
Its a lot cheaper and Easer.

[spectroelectro]

I too have no idea where the notion of a "soft" picture on the JVC comes from. A/Bing digital cable with the playback form the JVC (which I can do because Goodlife replays shows twice and just for the heck of it I've cued up a previously recorded JVC 2-hour-mode DVD and played it back in nearly exact sync with the reboardacst) shows no objectively verifiable differences between the two pictures. I had my girlfriend do a double-blind with this. I couldn't tell the difference between a JVC 2-hour recording and the straight digital cable signal at a rate any better than a coin flip. Neither can anyone else AFAICT.

Everything Smurf says about 4 hour mode and 3 hour mode is true. If you stare very hard you can barely see a very slight flicker noise on dark backgrounds in material recorded on the JVC at 4-hour LP more from a digital source... However, it's virtually unnoticeable. And only shows up in dark scenes. For the most part the JVC's 4-hour mode is indistinguishable from the 2-hour mode when the source is high quality analog like LD or digital cable.

To be perfectly frank, I see a LOT more macroblocking in high digital cable channels due to oversaturation of the bandwidth by the broadcasters than I have EVER seen in any JVC 4-hour LP recording. Simply put, the JVC does such a good good at 4-hour mode than any imperfections are more likely to be caused by macroblocking in direct broadcast satellite or digital cable than to come from the JVC.

But where the JVC really shines IMHO is when you work from lower quality source like VHS. The Panasonic completely falls apart when you record at any speed, even SP, from VHS source. Everything gets fudged and blurred . The details get lost, macroblocks show up in dark areas, it's a mess. Not so the JVC. You can record at 3-hour FR 180 mode from VHS and the results will look significantly better than the original VHS tape courtesy of digipure and the line TBC. Of course, you will get best results from VHS if you use a TBC and a proc amp and a video enhancer like the Vidicraft Detailer, which I do, and which any sensible person will do. But going head-to-head with the Panasonic vs the JVC using the exact same equipment, the different is startling -- JVC's the winner hands down when it comes to recording from lower quality source like VHS.

The JVC seems to do a wonderful job of getting rid of the video noise inherent in analog VHS tapes. By contrast, the Panasonic (and most other DVD recorders) tend to muck up the encoding, showing mosquito noise and macroblocking and other garbage because the MPEG-2 encoding hardware on other machines just doesn't seem to know what to do when presented with crufty analog noise from a VHS videotape. The JVC actually performs significant visible effective noise reduction. It's pretty amazing.

As for the claim that the JVC has a "light picture" this probably refers to slight differences in gamma and luma and chroma which are apparent in any video circuitry with an analog component. This shows up on computer video capture cards and can be seen even in TBCs. No video device with ananalog component is perfectly transparent. That said, the JVC probably looks "light" only by comparison with rival machines which seem to aggressively up the contrast and fiddle with the gamma to make the picture "stand out" most likely to seem striking in a video showroom. A/Bing digital source and JVC recording I can't see any difference, but there are clear differences from most other DVD recorders. This lack of artifacts is probably what gives the JVC a bad rep as having a "light picture." Light picture = "not aggressively contrasty like the Panasonic."