Senate passes anti-piracy bill

[adam]

As BJ_M noted in his citation, yes an usher or security guard could use reasonable force to detain you if he believed you had violated this statute. In most jurisdictions he could detain you just if he thought you stole some popcorn. If you broke his arm then you would be in the wrong and subject to even more criminal and civil liability.

BJ_M, I'm not sure if you were talking about Canadian law, which I know nothing about, but filing a complaint in the US is not considered an arrest. An arrest generally requires either a physical restraint or some sort of placing of the individual in reasonable belief that they are not free to go (ie: blocking only exit.)

The only document which in and of itself constitutes an arrest the moment it is filed is a capias

[MOVIEGEEK]

@BJ_M,
Sage advice on how to apprehend a 12 year old for shoplifting candy but hilarious when trying to subdue ex-con Joe Crackhead.

[BJ_M]

As BJ_M noted in his citation, yes an usher or security guard could use reasonable force to detain you if he believed you had violated this statute. In most jurisdictions he could detain you just if he thought you stole some popcorn. If you broke his arm then you would be in the wrong and subject to even more criminal and civil liability.

BJ_M, I'm not sure if you were talking about Canadian law, which I know nothing about, but filing a complaint in the US is not considered an arrest. An arrest generally requires either a physical restraint or some sort of placing of the individual in reasonable belief that they are not free to go (ie: blocking only exit.)

The only document which in and of itself constitutes an arrest the moment it is filed is a capias

i was quoting from the California government web site ... so I assume thats usa law - at least in California .

they say on their website that filing a complaint constitutes an arrest ..


in canada - i think , you have to place you hand on someone (at the min.) to represent restrant (and anything required above that) ....

[adam]

That can't be right BJ_M. A complaint can serve as probable cause for an information, which is an arrest warrant, or it can be used as probable cause for a grand jury hearing, which can result in an arrest warrant, but under no circumstances does filing a complaint=arrest.

Maybe what you read is that the filing of a complaint can serve as a charging instrument which eliminates the need for an arrest prior to conviction. This can be true for some class C misdemeanors such as traffic violations. But its still not considered an arrest unless you are actually taken into custody.

The State Bar of California defines arrest as "when you are taken into custody, when you are not free to leave the scene."

Arrest in California is defined by statute. I don't want to post the whole section here, cause its kinda long, but you can read it here. I got this off LexisNexis.

http://users3.ev1.net/~CavemanLawyer/Division II ARREST.htm
bah, just copy and paste.

In all US states, arrest requires some sort of restraint, either actual or constructive. This is our Federal standard. States can narrow the definition of arrest but they can't broaden it.

[kirpen]

The usher/clerk arrest stuff is kind of silly. Most places dont want their nontrained teen people trying to snag a crook. Here in the states movie chains tend to have a cop or security guard on duty.

[handyguy]

I was reading The FBI warning on the Grudge & it states that even if you don't get any financial gain from making a copy that they can still arrest you.

[ViRaL1]

Nothing new there. People who upload movies and music don't generally get any compensation.

[adam]

The usher/clerk arrest stuff is kind of silly. Most places dont want their nontrained teen people trying to snag a crook. Here in the states movie chains tend to have a cop or security guard on duty.

But a private security guard has absolutely no more authority to make an arrest than the usher. Neither are peace officers.

That is why citizen's arrest rights are contained in most Federal statutes like this. If it wasn't included, it would be just about impossible to detain the person without committing an unlawful arrest, and that would mean the camcorder and tape would be suppressed at trial. The statute would be impossible to enforce.

Its extremely easy to effect an arrest. An usher could easily do it completely unintentionally. So the citizen's arrest language is just a failsafe to prevent evidence from being suppressed all the time due to what is really just a technicality (ie: the usher touched my shirt prior to the police officer handcuffing me....therefore false arrest.)

[kirpen]

I'm not a lawyer but I do know security is trained or at least willing to risk personal harm. I dont think the avarage usher is ready to do that. I also dont think most chains are willing to takr on liabilty for over zealous under trained ushers who hurt some body. Also it maybe easy to try to arrest someone its much harder to detain a person in real life with people facing jail time.

[BJ_M]

the 2 or 300 people already arrested were all reported by the staff (in some cases wearing night vision goggles) to the police , in some cases it says they were held by the staff (same as a shoplifter) and other times were picked up upon leaving by the police and in a couple cases - were hauled out by the police during the movie ..

[kirpen]

Since movies last 90+ mins it shouldnt be hard to get police or security to the scene. I guess it comes down to how big the ushers are v the people with the cameras. Plus Knowing how much trouble you can be in if your cought.

[canadateck]

They will have to Police Them-selfs too,Many of these Cams are made from the people that work there.

[BJ_M]

They will have to Police Them-selfs too,Many of these Cams are made from the people that work there.

absolutely .. and many of those 'internal' are from Asia and eastern Europe also

[canadateck]

I also think that many people that do this kind of thing,Only do it because they can and like the danger/excitement that comes with it.

[kirpen]

Isnt that why they have watermarks on movies so they can tell where it was taped?

[adam]

I also think that many people that do this kind of thing,Only do it because they can and like the danger/excitement that comes with it.

Reminds me of that Seinfeld episode where Jerry got forced into filming bootleg movies.