Which Has Better Features?

[chole]

Which Has Better Features, More Advanced, better editing.? easier to learn and use.
Panny E85
Toshiba S32

I'm buying one of the two and find it hard to decide which one?

Thanks

[lordsmurf]

Two things to remember:

1) Panasonic has blocky video quality past about 2½ hours (XP, SP, FR).

2) The Toshiba may still have the IRE problem (faded color, muddy black/white)


"Features" depends on what you want.
If one had wheels and one did not, which would you find "best" or "better" ?

"More advanced" is a marketing term.

"Better editing", again, depends on what you want, in terms of editing ability.

[zorankarapancev]

It seems our members like better E85. For more info go here:
https://www.videohelp.com/dvdrecorders

At this point of time I would wait for the new Panasonic models. They are coming in few months completely redesign with the latest 12 bit/108Mhz AD converter promising better picture quality than any DVD recorder at any speed of recording.

[chole]

Number 1 - I don't know the price of these new models, I want to be around or under the $400.00 mark

Number 2 - I'll buy these from Wallmart and have at least 90 days to return the unit if I find a better one or the prices come down, a can't loose situation.

Number 3 - I still didn't get any answers to my question, there has to be people here that have owned both units and have heve something to say about them.

[lordsmurf]

Buy both. Return the one that loses your review.

[zorankarapancev]

Buy both. Return the one that loses your review.

100% agreement from me!

[chole]

I don't want to lay out the cash for both!

I guess there's no one here that has owned both units with an opinion of them?

[lordsmurf]

Use a credit card.

[budz]

get the pioneer 220 from walmart.com which retails for $248.00. from the threads i've read in the dvd recorders section, the pioneer dvd recorders seem to be better than the Toshiba. i'll be a owner of a pioneer 220 soon!

lordsmurf wrote:

Buy both. Return the one that loses your review.

lordsmurf wrote:

Use a credit card.

that's silly to suggest he purchase both recorders.

[lordsmurf]

Why? I've bought about 20 DVD recorders. Kept 4, returned 16 (not all at once, over a period of time). That was one of the primary methods that I used to test so many of them. All it required was good return policies and a good credit card limit.

[budz]

Why? I've bought about 20 DVD recorders. Kept 4, returned 16 (not all at once, over a period of time). That was one of the primary methods that I used to test so many of them. All it required was good return policies and a good credit card limit.

have you ever thought that his budget may not call for buying 2 dvd recorders. he's not out to test different brands of dvd recorders as you have done. that was your way to find out which dvd recorder suited your needs. his finanical situation may be different from yours. he asked which one is the best to purchase between 2 brands. telling him to buy both in my opinion is not helping him in deciding which one to buy. he's asking for anyone that has had experience with those models. my 2 cents for what's it worth!

[gshelley61]

"Best" is in the eye of the beholder. No matter what model is suggested by someone, you can bet others will strongly disagree. There's nothing wrong with buying one (or more) to check it out and then returning it if is not up to snuff.

[jimmalenko]

that's silly to suggest he purchase both recorders.

Not really, considering this:

I still didn't get any answers to my question, there has to be people here that have owned both units and have heve something to say about them.

So it's OK for the OP to suggest that someone here must a) have the means and b) have the use to own both, yet the mere suggestion of him purchasing both himself, and then returning the one that is not up to par is silly ?

pot-kettle-black if ever I saw it

[tmh]

man, you guys kill me. Was his question THAT complicated? He wants to know OPINIONS on which is a better product. OK?!?!?!? If you don't know, then just don't answer. OF COURSE it is subjective - that's why there is more than one product on the market.

I think some of you just can't admit you "DON'T KNOW" and keep quiet! Try listing some features, pros,cons for the dude if you know - none of us need your lectures on why our questions are stupid.

As far as buying both and returning one, I find that as unethical as stealing software via warez. You've just cost one company the complete cost of packaging and shipping their unit rather than do some research before hehd to determine what's best for you. Nothing wrong with returning one that doesn't work well, but to have the INTENTION to return one costs the rest of us in higher prices, especially if everyone did it.

There, now YOU'VE been lectured.

[jimmalenko]

As far as buying both and returning one, I find that as unethical as stealing software via warez. You've just cost one company the complete cost of packaging and shipping their unit rather than do some research before hehd to determine what's best for you. Nothing wrong with returning one that doesn't work well, but to have the INTENTION to return one costs the rest of us in higher prices, especially if everyone did it.

You're entitled to your opinion, but as far as I'm concerned, warez is stealing straight out, whereas returning goods is legitimately and legally paying for them then returning the goods in full working order and getting a refund, because they didn't suit the purpose you intended for them. These goods are fully saleable so no-one loses anything $-wise. This is the whole point of businesses having a returns policy - end-user satasfaction with the products they purchase. BTW, the OP mentioned buying them over the counter from Walmart, so packaging & shipping costs etc etc are totally irrelevant here

[tmh]

Of course, Jim, you must know much of what you just said just isn't so. When an electronic item is returned to a retail store it is NOT just put back on the shelves. They get a refund from the manufacturer who gets to sell it as a "store return" on ebay or wherever. They LOSE money on this due to the costs involved in shipping it twice, re-packaging and re-selling at a much lower price.

Now, as far as the "whole point" of return policies at retail stores being to allow customers to buy several products for the same purpose then return the ones they "like least".....uh....no.....that is most certainly NOT the purpose of a return policy, as I am SURE you know.

If shipping/pachaging costs are "not relevant", how exactly do you think that DVD Player arrived at Walmart from Asia or wherever? Magic? How was it packaged at no cost? Who pays the clerk who processes your "test drive" returns? Who re-packages it for eBay sale ? Who checks to see if it still works?

C'mon now, let's don't pretend we ALL don't know that system of "retail warez" is abusing the retail system. Legal? Yea, I guess so. Right? I think not.

[gshelley61]

In the case of items that do not perform as described or promised, or have some other shortcoming... there is nothing wrong with returning units like that. I recently attempted to replace my aging Bravo D1 upscaling DVD player. So, I tried a Zenith 318... it was inferior in PQ to the Bravo and did not properly display 4:3 source material (stretched it to 16:9). After one evening of checking it out, I listed it on eBay and was able to re-sell it within one hour for what I paid for it. I included my original sales receipt so the buyer could implement the warranty coverage.

Then I ordered a Denon 1910 from Crutchfield... it has macroblocking issues and also does not properly display 4:3 material either... back to Crutchfield it went, no questions asked. They were more than happy to accomodate me.

[lordsmurf]

Of course, Jim, you must know much of what you just said just isn't so. When an electronic item is returned to a retail store it is NOT just put back on the shelves. They get a refund from the manufacturer who gets to sell it as a "store return" on ebay or wherever. They LOSE money on this due to the costs involved in shipping it twice, re-packaging and re-selling at a much lower price..

Wrong.

You can walk into almost any store and see returned items. Some stores even go so far as to put them on an "open box" shelf or add "open box sticker" and give a small discount (usually something wussy like $2 off).

This is why they ask you WHAT IS WRONG WITH IT when you return it. If you say "I didn't like it" then back on the shelf it goes. If you say "it caught fire and killed the cat" it will ONLY THEN get the manufacturer return scenario.

For anybody that believes returns hurts a store, I have some ACME stock I'd love to sell. The name is Wile E. Coyote, genius. How many shares would you like? Better than a bridge, swamp land or Martian real estate!

And I don't know who taught you retail economics/policies, but stores don't sell returns on eBay. They refurb for refurb distributors (still not ebay), or recycle/discard the duds. Items found to still be new, if returned, are repacked and sold as new again (and rightly so).

[next]

Of course, Jim, you must know much of what you just said just isn't so. When an electronic item is returned to a retail store it is NOT just put back on the shelves. They get a refund from the manufacturer who gets to sell it as a "store return" on ebay or wherever. They LOSE money on this due to the costs involved in shipping it twice, re-packaging and re-selling at a much lower price..

Wrong.

You can walk into almost any store and see returned items. Some stores even go so far as to put them on an "open box" shelf or add "open box sticker" and give a small discount (usually something wussy like $2 off).

This is why they ask you WHAT IS WRONG WITH IT when you return it. If you say "I didn't like it" then back on the shelf it goes. If you say "it caught fire and killed the cat" it will ONLY THEN get the manufacturer return scenario.

For anybody that believes returns hurts a store, I have some ACME stock I'd love to sell. The name is Wile E. Coyote, genius. How many shares would you like? Better than a bridge, swamp land or Martian real estate!

And I don't know who taught you retail economics/policies, but stores don't sell returns on eBay. They refurb for refurb distributors (still not ebay), or recycle/discard the duds. Items found to still be new, if returned, are repacked and sold as new again (and rightly so).

Wow, my head is spinning after this one. BestBuy is actually tracking customers based on their return history and segregating these customers to a list of people that they would prefer not doing business with. Many reatil stores are now becoming very strict in their return policies and charging restocking fees as a result - and holding firm. This "buy it to try it" mentality is juvenile at best.

As far as the ebay comments try these links:

http://stores.ebay.com/_W0QQanZ1QQcatZ0QQtZlw

Here's the Sears store on ebay for example:

http://stores.ebay.com/Sears-Liquidation-Center/Shop-Sears.html

So much misinformation one does not know where to start.

I'll stop now although it would be easy to continue.

[andkiich]

People need to stop getting their panties in a bunch because people are following the rules and using a return policy set up by the store you buy electronics from. If the store has an issue with returns, they can STOP taking returns, sell items "as is" and let the manufacturer deal with defects.

Most people who whine about "abuse" of return policy either never worked in retail or if you do, shame on you for not knowing how retail really works.

[next]

bestbuy/ebay:

http://www.alwayson-network.com/comments.php?id=P3508_0_7_0_C

BestBuy store here:

http://stores.ebay.com/Best-Buy-Outlet-Store/Welcome-to-Best-Buy-Outlet.html

[tmh]

Well,well,well .......I guess it's quite obvious now that I was right. LS, where exactly would best buy get the new packaging supplies to re-pack the DVD player you just test drove when you bring it back out of the wrapper, the cords all unstrapped and the box all ripped because you were in such a hurry to test your 20 players you couldn't open it carefully?

Returns are the biggest pain in the arse most retailers face. Where, oh knower of all, do you THINK all those ebay "opened box" items come from?

You know, in a way I can see why I person might do this "buy many, return all but one" scam knowing they're getting over on the store but not caring. I just don't believe ANYONE is so foolish as to really BELIEVE it doesn't hurt the retailer and manufacturer.

And, to quote Wile E., "mud spelled backwards is DUM".

[jimmalenko]

@tmh:
From what I've seen from you so far, I think andkiich hit the nail on the head.

I go on my experience with returns policies on both sides of the counter in both a supermarket and an electronics store.

Let's start with an electronics example:

As LS pointed out, if the reason for the return was "I didn't like it" or "it couldn't do what I thought it could do" or "it can't play xxx brand of CD/DVDs" then back on the shelf it went, because it is still in fully saleable condition. Should the packaging be FUBARed, then it either gets sold as an open box item on a "clearance" table (clearly marked) or used as a demo unit on the floor. Returns due to defective parts were sent back to the manufacturer, but these were defective parts, so that's the manufacturers' fault anyway.

but anyway, that's getting away from the point of this thread

[budz]

betcha wouldn't be able to return a dvd recorder from COMPUSA. they won't give you your money back unless the box is sealed and unopened. once you open it basically it is yours to own. of course unless the recorder is defective out of the box. that is their store policy. computer components you have 14 days return policy and electronics return policy is limited.

this thread is going way off topic.....why not close it like this thread was:
https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=255604

[zorankarapancev]

Hay guys,

All these moral lessons will be fine if they are not one sided.

shame on you for not knowing how retail really works.

Are we supposed to be a shame because we want to protect our consumer interests, instead of the ones of the retailers and the manufacturers?

I will whole-heartedly accept everything you said if the manufacturers:

- stop making false claims about their products (starting from the printed specifications and ending with the advertisements).
- stop selling faulty products that we have to fix and “upgrade”.
- stop using us as free beta testers.

…And when the retailers become more knowledgeable in the products they sell and stop shamelessly lying to us in order to make their sales and profits.

While I am waiting to see manufacturers with integrity and honest and knowledgeable sales people, I will exercise my right to use the policy of “returning the products that don’t meet consumer expectations”.

[lordsmurf]

@next
Outlet stores sell (1) old stock and (2) damaged goods.
Totally different. Many "dollar stores" are also a form of outlet.

@budz
NEVER BUY FROM COMPUSA... they have a BS return policy.

[vhelp]

@tmh:
From what I've seen from you so far, I think andkiich hit the nail on the head.

I go on my experience with returns policies on both sides of the counter in both a supermarket and an electronics store.

Let's start with an electronics example:

As LS pointed out, if the reason for the return was "I didn't like it" or "it couldn't do what I thought it could do" or "it can't play xxx brand of CD/DVDs" then back on the shelf it went, because it is still in fully saleable condition. Should the packaging be FUBARed, then it either gets sold as an open box item on a "clearance" table (clearly marked) or used as a demo unit on the floor. Returns due to defective parts were sent back to the manufacturer, but these were defective parts, so that's the manufacturers' fault anyway.

but anyway, that's getting away from the point of this thread

This is basically how I shop for bargains. Because its smart thinking.
You see. There are reasons behind one's madness. If you think cheap, (assuming
it's really) you'll never get ahead in some areas.

As jim point out above, that's how I got my two cams below, at great steals
hehe..

* $200 for my ZR10
* $179 for my 820U

Both were shelf models.
The $179 had no docs or anything with it. Nothing. My guess was that some
one from inside had bought it, used it for a year or to, and then dumped it
on the shelf (per his/her store mgr) and they marked it down - way down.
This model normally sold for $999 when it came out. What a steal. And, I
have it here. In fact, I'm finally working it the way invisioned to, after
a year of procrastination (read my other thread on the DV forum)
.
A cheap $179 dollar Progressive cam (for the time being) vs. a $2000 wonder
cam. What ever modle/make/brand. This $179 will serve me well, for the
time being. And still puts :P 's on my face.

The first cam, $200 had a sort of bad 2" window. The video would squigle with
you opend it at a certain angle. But while I was playing around with it, I fiture
it out, and realize (right away) - - what a steal. I mean. All I had to do,
was not open it at that angle, and everything was ok
I also learned that in the angle it was opened at, causing the video squigle,
that it wasn't the normal open angel to begin with. But, when I first had it
in my hands, and I fell upon the squigle, my eyes opend up (deceatfully) and
I got the idea, that if I present this issue to the sales person, I could actaully
get some more off.. hehe.. (and I did)
To this day, I have both cames.

I look for these kinds of bargin's because I learned a long time ago, that
sometimes, getting a brand new item, is purely dumb, when in the end, you're
chances of shelfing it anyways, is greater than obtainnng the monies for the
item in question, not to mention, the actual use you'll put into it.

I have lots more stories, but I think the above two serve very well here.

Open your eye's peoples.

-vhelp 3094

[budz]

lordsmurf wrote

@budz
NEVER BUY FROM COMPUSA... they have a BS return policy.

I know because I bought a cheapo dvd player for my niece that was defective out of the box. That's why I said in my other post don't buy from COMPUSA. Long story so I won't go into detail. I got my money back though after complaining to the front end manager. It does pay to bitch and complain since I spend lots of money in that store. That will certainly change once BEST BUY opens up later this year.

[chole]

I just want to thank you guys for your great adivse, I don't know what I've done without it.

[JK27]

Well, if you don't want to buy 2 DVD recorders at once ... just buy one. Try it out. Kick the tires. If you don't like it, return it. If you do, keep it. Pretty simple