How to know which copy protection system on a DVD?

[alexgeo]

Hi,

I've read many posts about new DVD proctection systems which are not supported by DVD Shrink.

I usually use only DVD Shrink to rip and shrink and only when needed DVD Decrypter 1st.

Is there any way to know which protection system has been used on a DVD so I would only use DVD Decrypter when Shrink can't do it on it's own?

Hope my question is clear to everyone. And i've not made a redundant post with a similar question from someone else. I'm new to this forum thing, so

[Capmaster]

It seems you answered your own question. Try it with DVDShrink first. If it works, fine. If not, try DVDDecrypter Of vice versa if you have a preference for DVDDecrypter.

As the new copy protection schemes come along there will surely be new releases for both these apps to accommodate them.

[alexgeo]

Maybe i didn't express myself clearly enough.

I don't want to loose time waiting to see if it works with DVD Shrink and neither do i want to loose time running Decrypter if not necessary.

And as far as i know there will be no new release of DVD Shrink as the creator now works for Nero and their Recode product.

So my question is the following : Just like there is programs which can't let you know what codecs have been used to encode a videofile, is there a program to let you know what protections systems are embedded on a DVD?

[koinhelgo]

Not exactly answering your question but.....
I always use DVDDecrypter first to rip to hard drive then use shrink to compress the files and burn (via NERO). This is definitely faster than just using Shrink on it's own. When you point shrink to the files ripped by DVDDecypter they already have encryption etc removed therefore it is a lot quicker for Shrink to encode these files - especially if there is no compression involved.
It takes my comp about 10 mins to rip all the files on a DVD then 20 mins to encode/compress files (although haven't tried a massive DVD like Saving Private Ryan) and DVD Shrink on it's own takes about an hour
So basically it is quicker to do it this way - you will find out what encryption is used via DVDDecrypter and if it can't rip the files then Shrink won't be able to use them. DVDDecrypter as far as I know will keep getting updated in the short term so this is the best way to procede.
I think though that DVDinfopro prog can tell you what file encryption method is used on a DVD -not sure you'll have to check it out -it's a free download

[RickTheRed]

koinhelgo,

One exception: if you reauthor and the final result is less than 4.7gb, it will be much faster to rip with shrink: less than five minutes to create an iso file from an encrypted disc.
If file is larger than 4.7gb, I agree that it is not really longer to go with decrypter first.

[Gurm]

I will agree with that Rick and Koinhelgo said:

UNLESS you are reauthoring to less than 4.7gb, it is almost always faster to rip with DVD Decrypter and then run Shrink. There are of course cases where this isn't true, but not that many - Shrink runs at LIGHTSPEED from a CD image, but slowly directly from the drive. I'm not sure if this is due to Shrink's decryption engine being slow, or just the limiting factor of the DVD and the fact that Shrink does non-sequential seeks into a protected disc. I suspect a little of both!

However, to answer the original poster's question - how fast do you want to be? If Shrink won't work, you'll know in seconds. It'll just crap out and give you an error. At most you'll have wasted a minute. Then you can run DVD Decrypter. Any other solution would ALSO require that you fire up a program, analyze the disc - ALSO taking up a minute of your time.

So the answer is NO, there is no "faster" or "more efficient" way to know what protection a disc uses. The best way to find out, if you really want to know, is to run DVD Decrypter. It will tell you if the disc has:

- CSS
- RCE
- Spurious sectors (ArcCos)
- Etc.

And it'll tell you pretty much right up front.

[Gurm]

Also I want to point out that while I _love_ DVD Shrink, and think the world of the author, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for new releases.

As we've seen, DVD Shrink releases are few and far between nowadays. He'll do a spate of releases until it gets stable and good, and then slack off for a while - after all he's working for Nero and is a busy person... and Shrink is freeware.

Until it fails to work on a substantial number of new releases (there are what, maybe THREE that it won't do currently?) I would suspect that we WON'T see a DVD Shrink release.

[alexgeo]

I agree with Gurm, Rick and Koinhelgo, but with a rather slow dvd-rom drive (i have an old Pioneer DVD-104S as reader and a Sony DRU-500A as writer) i don't see much difference of when i run DVD Shrink from the DVD or when i rip it with Decrypter.

Perhaps i should consider changer one of my drives then

Gurm i agree with you why would there be new release of Freeware DVD Shrink when it is a direct competitor with Commercial Nero Recode.
As for DVD shrink failing to work, well i've been using it since the 2.1 release and i've tested all the different versions until the last one 3.2.0.15 and i've never ever experienced problems with any discs or sometimes due to scratches but i tried it with decrypter and most of time decrypter is still able to read when shrink stops.

[Gurm]

I agree with Gurm, Rick and Koinhelgo, but with a rather slow dvd-rom drive (i have an old Pioneer DVD-104S as reader and a Sony DRU-500A as writer) i don't see much difference of when i run DVD Shrink from the DVD or when i rip it with Decrypter.

Look at it this way:

Method 1:

1. Rip with DVD Decrypter. The time for this is relatively fixed. On my machine, it's ten minutes or so to rip a dual-layer disc. If it takes 20 minutes on yours, so be it.

2. Encode with Shrink from the VOBs or ISO. On my machine, deep analysis from the hard drive takes about 15-20 minutes, and encoding takes another 15. So half an hour MAXIMUM.

Total Time: 40-45 minutes.

Method 2:

1. Rip and Encode with Shrink. Analysis now takes half an hour or more. And encoding can now take 30-45 minutes.

Total Time: 60-75 minutes.

I tried this just today, just so that I'd have some real numbers. I did "Harold and Kumar Go To White Castle". The rip took 10 minutes with DVD Decrypter. Analysis from the hard disk was 15, encoding was 10. My TOTAL elapsed time? 35 minutes. Then I deleted the files, killed the DVD Shrink cache, and started Shrink running directly from disk. Analysis took half an hour, encoding 45 minutes. That's 75 minutes. More than DOUBLE the amount of time!

Why is this? Well, it's because DVD Shrink jumps around a lot on the disc. I suspect that it's also because Shrink's de-CSS engine just isn't quite as good or well-optimized as Decrypter's, but that's immaterial. The issue is that the same segment on the disc might get decrypted more than once. Additionally, every time a non-sequential seek happens, the DVD drive spins down, seeks (150ms), and spins back up. Effectively, DVD Shrink rips at 1x or less. Fractional ripping speeds for a complex disc. Even when re-authoring, it's going to be less efficient than just ripping the movie first with Decrypter.

Gurm i agree with you why would there be new release of Freeware DVD Shrink when it is a direct competitor with Commercial Nero Recode.

Well, actually people were saying this about DVD Shrink 3.x, and yet here we are using 3.2 quite happily. The author seems quite committed to keeping Shrink updated, but my point is that he's not going to spend all his time updating Shrink when he could be doing a PAYING program.

[/quote] As for DVD shrink failing to work, well i've been using it since the 2.1 release and i've tested all the different versions until the last one 3.2.0.15 and i've never ever experienced problems with any discs or sometimes due to scratches but i tried it with decrypter and most of time decrypter is still able to read when shrink stops.[/quote]

I occasionally come across a disc that Shrink just can't handle. For example, in Finding Nemo, the program gets quite confused because there are two versions of the movie - one is fullscreen and one is widescreen. BUT there are also branch points in and out of one of the titles, and you thus either have to do EVERYTHING on the disc (nearly impossible to do with any quality, it's jam-packed full) or else you reauthor with the main widescreen film only. So there are some discs that Shrink can't handle. I can't speak to its ripping abilities, because I just don't use it to rip.

[mijman]

That's weird. My Finding Nemo is 2 discs, one for each version of the movie. Mine must be a US thing.

Shrink loved it.

[alexgeo]

Hi Gurm,
i don't know your computer configuration,
but with mine i don't have the same timing.
I'm talking about main movie only backup, no menu, no nothing else fancy, just the movie.

Method1 : Unless films are over 2 hours long it takes me usually between 20 to 45 mins with Shrink only and deep analysis.

Method 2: But when using Decrypter you need to backup the whole DVD in order to be able to run it from Shrink afterwards, and full DVD9 backup takes me between 20 to 30 mins then add 5 to 10 mins for deep analysis and 5 mins for shrinking.

Method 1 Method 2
20~45mins Vs 30~45mins, i'd say to close to call.

So it looks like it all depends about computer config.
And yet my Pioneer DVD-104S only read at 4x, let me imagine the times i'd get if i had a 16x DVD reader, am i awake or am i dreaming?

If someone have other numbers, please let us know...

[bazooka]

Maybe i didn't express myself clearly enough.

I don't want to loose time waiting to see if it works with DVD Shrink and neither do i want to loose time running Decrypter if not necessary.

[Gurm]

Of course "main movie only" will produce different results. It completely eliminates the "random seeking" slowdown, and the times will be much closer - Shrink alone might actually win in this case!