Panasonic 3 hour mode ???

[spliffy]

Hi,
I have a Panasonic E55 recorder and I would like to know if there is any way that I can change the record mode to 3 hours, without using the FR option (the Pany options jump from 2hrs to 4hrs !!)
A 3 hour mode would be useful when recording two programs using the timer.
Is there anyway I can flash the firmware to increase the number of fixed bit rates available ??

[Capmaster]

I've got the E50. No way that I know of. I think you're stuck with FR for that

[handyguy]

Why not use LP mode (4 hours), looks the same.

[spliffy]

No way it does !!!
At least to my eyes.

[samijubal]

LP blows on any machine. Why have the capability of DVD quality and use LP? The resolution of LP is closer to VHS than DVD. Discs are too cheap.

[spliffy]

Exactly.....
That's why I am looking for a record mode between SP and LP.
Ideally i would like a 2.5 hour mode on the Panasonic.
If you own a Panasonic and want to record 2 programs using the timer. you'll know the problem.
i.e if you choose FR for first recording, it will use the entire disc and you will not be able to record the second program.

[lacywest]

I set my FR record for 2.5 hours and and record a certain channel for the length I see worth recording and stop it ... when the material gets good again ... I start recording again ... compensating for what I've already recorded in a 2.5 hour time limit.

If I want to record two shows that are 1 hr each ... first one is set for 2 hrs and when it finishes ... I stop it at the 1 hr mark.

I then set the timer recorder for the other show with Flex Record engaged.

I use the Director button to give titles to each show I recorded.

Yes ... it does mean I have to be there but ... works for me ... I have two E50S machines ... one in living room and one in my bedroom.

[samijubal]

Exactly.....
That's why I am looking for a record mode between SP and LP.
Ideally i would like a 2.5 hour mode on the Panasonic.
If you own a Panasonic and want to record 2 programs using the timer. you'll know the problem.
i.e if you choose FR for first recording, it will use the entire disc and you will not be able to record the second program.

There is a way to do what you want to do as long as you are there to stop the recording. Add the times of the two programs you want to record together then add a little extra time just to be sure. Then set the flexible record for the total time of the two programs, as long as you are there to stop the recording after the first program, you will have the right amount of time left for the second program.

[zenzen1]

Is not the whole purpose of Timer Recording so you can record vision while you are NOT there
Eg: While you are out, or while you are asleep.
Why use Timer Recording if "you are there"

[handyguy]

" The resolution of LP is closer to VHS than DVD."

He said that he was recording programs using the timer & that sounds like tv programs which look nice in LP mode. I been watching them in LP mode for 2 years on my Panny using the same disks.

The reason for using timer if you are there is because that way you can set the specific time that you want recorded. I didn't find it useful.

[spliffy]

ok....thanks for your replies.
I just thought that there was maybe a hack around for the recorder, as I know there is for other dvd recorders.

[lordsmurf]

LSI DiMeNsion chips (and a couple others) do an EXCELLENT JOB at 4-hour mode video. The spec of 4-hour mode is a near-exact half of 2-hour mode, meaning it will be almost identical in quality (assuming the source is medium res, like most tv, cable, VHS, etc). The LSI 3-hour is absolutely amazing, noise-free encodes. Only FLAWED QUALITY machines (like Panasonics) CANNOT do well at that spec. Neither Panny hardware nor software encoders were ever very good outside of a few rigid specs.

Some Panasonics can do FR mode, but quality starts to wain after about 2½ hours. There is no preset.

If you want a good 3-hour preset mode, and using time recordings, buy another recorder. The SANYO at Walmart is low priced, has a nice quality 3-hour mode, and the timer works great.

JVC is great (LSI chips), but the timer function of the recorder requires a power save mode that could fry the resistors in faulty ones (not all of them are faulty, so there are great odds you'll NEVER experience "loading" syndrome, especially on new ones).

Pioneer is also a nice machine, but I've never tested the timer functions. I'm not sure how it would interact with recording modes, and I no longer remember if 3-hour was a preset or FR style.

LiteOn and ILO (and other) clones are great too, timer is excellent, but some of them require a hack for the 3-hour preset to appear. It too, is excellent quality, also LSI chipset.

[steve2713]

I bought one of the Pioneer 420s like alot of others probably did on here when Costco was selling them for $249. Lordsmurf, in theory your assessment of a 4 hour mode looking the same as 2 hour mode seems right. But in practice, at least with my Pioneer, this is not true at all trying it out so far. In recording standard cable, the image is definitely sharper at the lower quality 720x480 recordings vs. the highest quality 352x480 recordings. This is a comparison between a 2 hour mode and a 2 1/2 hour mode, and it is apparent even comparing those two. The 352x480 still looks pretty nice though, I just did a quick recording at the 3 hour mode and it looks very nice, still quite sharp with not very visible artifacts, I'd say it is similar to my SVHS recordings.

The Pioneer is a great recorder though so far, and the timer settings are very easy to set. The Pioneer has your standard Fine, SP, LP, and EP settings, but it also has 32 settings, from 5 to 10 to 15 minute increments as you go from one end of the quality spectrum to the other.

[lordsmurf]

I usually find "sharpness" is a perceived, not real, quality of video. Most people find it "sharper" due to a psychological belief moreso than an outright visible quality.

Some of this also depends on the channel. Regular analog cable is hovering about 352x480 in a digital equivalency. Some satellite channels (not many) will have a slightly sharper appearance because it was a higher res when sent from the transponder (some receivers will pretty much botch this when output as analog signal).

The other problem is sometimes machines ARTICIFICALLY sharpen an image. This usually leads to artifacts, though some people are accepting of artifacts (personally, I think blocks and fuzzy mini-blocks ruin video).

There are some other issues here too, but your 3-hour should be 352x480 with a super-high bitrate allocation. Pioneer is nice.

It's good to here the timer works well.

[samijubal]

LP stinks on the JVC just like any other machine. Anyone who thinks it is anywhere near SP must have a low resolution TV.

[lordsmurf]

If you have some HUGE SCREEN of some sort (40-50-60-70-etc), then everything you watch, commercial or not, will probably "stink".

[steve2713]

No, it is not perceived in this case. It is a real and visible difference, and I have noise reduction, edge enhancement, etc. turned off so they aren't swaying the image one way or the other either. I can't speak for satellite though as I don't have one, just standard non-digital cable.

One of the easiest ways to see the lowered sharpness caused by the lowered res (despite higher bitrate per pixel), when recording channels with the ticker-type graphics on screen, station logos, that sort of thing. When there are small seperations between characters, some text would blur together with the lower res. vs. the higher res.

Regardless of that comparison, I can see a visible drop in the overall image between the two resolutions. It's not a great difference, but believe me, it is not as sharp.

Psychologically, if anything, I'd love to believe and was hoping to find that 4 hour mode would yield essentially the same results as 2 hour mode as that would effectively double capacity with what I'll be recording, standard cable. And as I said before, in theory it makes sense more or less as I had read before that cable was supposed to be about 330 lines resolution, I remember that used to come up when DVD first came out, touting the advantage in resolution over VHS and Cable resolution.

Maybe I'll do some screen captures for comparison so people can compare the two. As I said before, the lower res. still looks pretty nice.

[lordsmurf]

If you analyze every bit of the screen, the lower bitrate can cause some of the perceived loss. It's not the resolution, but rather the suffering of lower allocation. The SP mode has this exact same suffering, but the forced 720 may keep it slightly more separated, as the breaking pixels are not shared.

I'm really going to have to make a sample of something like this for it to make more sense. Words probably came out gooey just now.

I know what you're getting at, however.

And again, some of this depends not only on the source resolution, but the content of the video. The tv logo, for example.

[Synergy]

And as I said before, in theory it makes sense more or less as I had read before that cable was supposed to be about 330 lines resolution, I remember that used to come up when DVD first came out, touting the advantage in resolution over VHS and Cable resolution.

I'm not sure that 330 lines resolution is close to 1/2 D1 (352x480). According to JVC's website, 500 lines resolution is full D1 (720x480), 400 lines resolution is 3/4 D1 (544x480), 350 lines resolution is 2/3 D1 (480x480), and 250 lines resolution is 1/2 D2 (352x480):

http://www.victor.co.jp/dvd/dr-m10/function/visual.html#long_time

Feel free to correct it if this is wrong.

[jrh1194]

I agree that LP mode on the Panasonics is not great. It's not great on any recorders. But the last thing you want to do is get a JVC or Liteon (also known as Ilo). The JVC machines have reliability problems and Liteon (Ilo) image quality is almost as good as a vcr. The Panny bashers on this forum won't ever admit this.

[lordsmurf]

LiteOn recordings are not full of blocks.
Panasonics are full of blocks.

Both machines look near-identical at 2-hour mode.

LiteOn CVBR does do some things at 4-hour on fast scene changes, but that's it. Panasonic noise is sustained for the full duration of the recording.

JVC's loading issue has been resolved. New buyers should not be scared. There are pretty much ZERO artifacts on it's recordings, all the way to 4 hours. Uncanny.

"Panny" lovers seem to be unable to admit the Panasonic recordings look like they have been infested by micro lifeforms (amoeba macroblocks). And then 4 hour mode looks about as clean as a downloaded VCD.

If you use the machine for 2½ hours (or less) and love it ... great! It's okay there. Beyond that... the machines utterly fails. So for anybody wanting to surpass about 2½ hours, be prepared for a harsh drop in image quality.

A majority of this situation is the Panasonic's inability to clean up imperfect signals like it's competitors. Matsushita owns both Panasonic and JVC. It's kind of odd how they have NEVER taken JVC DigiPure and put it in the severely-lacking Panasonic competing products. It could surely use it.

[jrh1194]

Here we go with the Panny bashers...Liteon (Ilo) machines seem to work well until you try to watch a movie recorded by them on another machine. They define "black level bug". There are many posts here from people who have bought them and returned them because they are crap (myself included). The bottom line here is that you get what you pay for!!! If Panasonic was as poor as you try to claim, than why have so many of us purchased them and are pleased with them???

[lordsmurf]

Which LiteON unit has an IRE problem? It's not the 5001 or 5005, nor several others I've been able to test.

The LiteOn 5001 is probably the most perfect DVD player I have ever seen.

[jrh1194]

Lordsmurf,
I personally have had the problem with an Ilo DVDR04 which is a re-badged Liteon. I have seen numerous postings that say it is actually a 5001, although I do not know that to be fact.

"The LiteOn 5001 is probably the most perfect DVD player I have ever seen."
That statement is almost too funny. I guess you haven't seen that many.

As I have stated before, there is no perfect dvd recorder. Not even Panasonic which you take every opportunity to bash.

[handyguy]

My Panny has an interesting feature I just found out after 2 years. If its OFF & I push the play button, it goes on & starts to play.

[zenzen1]

LordSmurf,
Sorry but you are rapidly losing cred with me, and several others on this forum. I have owned a Panasonic DMR-E50 for some time now, and it has been bulletproof. PQ has been excellent. But I believed your many posts about how wonderful the JVC recorder was, and being able to get it at a good price, I purchased one last week. Within three days it was displaying the Loading message (once during a recording on the JVC DVD which came with the machine). So there goes your cred that all JVC machines are now OK, and that it never was a problem with PAL machines. During the time I had both the Panny DMR-50 and the JVC DR-M10 I took the chance to do a bit of A-B testing, and on every test, the Panny displayed a sharper, more colourful picture. So, back to the Good Guys shop with the JVC, and came back home with a Panny DMR-E55 for the downstairs studio. Flexable Recording mode without having to set up a timer, etc.
Sure I'll admit that quality drops if you're not recording in XP or SP mode. It happens on most recorders. FR looks OK up to 2.5 to maybe 3 hours, but why would anyone want to squeeze more onto a disc anyway???? So what if the JVC does a better job in the 3 and 4 hour modes? Blank discs are so cheap now, there is no point in doing a squeeze. Most of my cable (docco) recordings are 1 hour, so XP mode is used. Most movies are under 2 hours, so SP or FR mode is used. Lastly, I have only a normal sized lounge room, and my TV is....guess what...a Panasonic 76cm HiDef widescreen 200a. I don't stand up close to the set and look for macroblocks. Maybe your slagging of Panny's is what you've seen of them in NTSC. We all know that PAL displays a better picture, so is that part of the problem?

Now I shall put on my fire-proof overalls and get ready for the flames

[jrh1194]

Zenzen,
I agree with you 100 percent. There is nothing wrong with Panasonic. The smurf man seems to have a real problem with it. I think most people realize that. Anyone who says that Liteon is the most perfect recorder around cannot be taken seriously!

[lordsmurf]

If people would read, they'd have seen I said "PLAYER" not recorder. I use the LiteOn mostly as a player because of how well it can handle all PAL material in addition to NTSC. Absolutely amazing.

As a recorder, it is quite good, but not the very best, no. JVC and Pioneer dethrone it there.

There are many people that use more than 2 hours on a disc. There are many situations where beyond 2 hours is needed. Disc price has nothing to do with it. If thats not you, great, buy anything you want, and you'll never understand this problem. All recorders pretty much look the same at 2-hour (more or less).

You also need to pay attention to the construction date of the JVC. I also find these "as soon as I got home it was loading" reviews to be quite dubious in nature (it takes a lot of time for this error to build up, not 2 hours). Maybe you bought a used or open-box unit.

But let's not threadjack this topic, ok? The guy wants 3-hour mode timer recordings on a Panasonic. Sorry, no go. That would require another recorder, and I've given several suggestions for others that can meet this need for the OP.

[ejai]

LordSmurf,
Sorry but you are rapidly losing cred with me, and several others on this forum. I have owned a Panasonic DMR-E50 for some time now, and it has been bulletproof. PQ has been excellent. But I believed your many posts about how wonderful the JVC recorder was, and being able to get it at a good price, I purchased one last week. Within three days it was displaying the Loading message (once during a recording on the JVC DVD which came with the machine). So there goes your cred that all JVC machines are now OK, and that it never was a problem with PAL machines. During the time I had both the Panny DMR-50 and the JVC DR-M10 I took the chance to do a bit of A-B testing, and on every test, the Panny displayed a sharper, more colourful picture. So, back to the Good Guys shop with the JVC, and came back home with a Panny DMR-E55 for the downstairs studio. Flexable Recording mode without having to set up a timer, etc.
Sure I'll admit that quality drops if you're not recording in XP or SP mode. It happens on most recorders. FR looks OK up to 2.5 to maybe 3 hours, but why would anyone want to squeeze more onto a disc anyway???? So what if the JVC does a better job in the 3 and 4 hour modes? Blank discs are so cheap now, there is no point in doing a squeeze. Most of my cable (docco) recordings are 1 hour, so XP mode is used. Most movies are under 2 hours, so SP or FR mode is used. Lastly, I have only a normal sized lounge room, and my TV is....guess what...a Panasonic 76cm HiDef widescreen 200a. I don't stand up close to the set and look for macroblocks. Maybe your slagging of Panny's is what you've seen of them in NTSC. We all know that PAL displays a better picture, so is that part of the problem?

Now I shall put on my fire-proof overalls and get ready for the flames

I agree,

I love quality in a picture but to say that less sharpness and dull coloring is outstanding quality is nonsense. If sharpness wasn't an issue then the need to increase resolutions would be useless at best. What I noticed with the JVC is that dulls the image in order to hide the artifacts, this in turn produces a more smoother image masking detail.

The Panasonic is more accurate to the original source and in my opinion (an many others) a more reliable machine.

[samijubal]

I agree with the Panasonic being closer to the source, VHS recordings on the JVC are a little cleaner, but at the sacrifice of the contrast and brightness of the original. I look at the Panasonic and JVC recordings and in most cases the Panasonic is better with it's sharper picture and noise reduction that can be turned off giving less digital artificats in my recordings. Also the Panasonic recordings rarely have bad spots in them, most of the JVC recordings do with the same discs. There are no lines running up and down the screen in the Panasonic recordings either, they are in every JVC recording I ever made on 3 different machines.