What is a good hard drive to use for video editing?

[Jester700]

I would not suggest a RAID array, especially not the ZERO (0) version.

why no raid??

RAID 0 isn't really a RAID (redundant array) because it's NOT redundant. It basically writes data to 2 drives at once to increase throughput. And it does work, though it works best for big files (for general use I doubt you'd notice any difference). But it also means that if there's a problem with EITHER drive, the data is hosed - so your chance of having lost data is doubled. Unless you REALLY need the speed it isn't recommended.

[alsyed]

i've got both a maxtor and a seagate. The maxtor runs steadily 10 degrees hotter than the seagate. Seagate is quiet and cool. Running currently at 30degrees at 25degrees ambient. I have a 80mm vantec stealth fan at the front. The maxtor will be replaced shortly.

friend has samsung 160GB model, very impressive for speed, quiet and cool running.

[ShaneJensen]

My hard drive that died was only for video editing, so whatever data I lost on it was only current video projects I was working. It's stuff that I can recapture again, so I lost nothing that I can't replace.

Reading all different ideas in this thread here I'm down to two choices, internal or external. I've already decided that Seagate is what I'm going for since a majority here seems to vouch for that brand. I'm just now trying to decide if I should install it in my computer case and put in the extra fans or put it in an external aluminum case using firewire. This is the only choice that's holding me back right now and I need to come to a decision in the next few days because I have some video projects that I really need to get started on.

Thank you all for your help.

[alsyed]

well to me, it would come down to a few things.

firewire would be good only for portability right? They'd be more expensive, and you need a cage for it.

Internal, cheaper, and probably somewhat more reliablye. Just make sure you have your cooling mechanisms going well to remove heat.

i think the sweet spot for hard drive sizes is around 160GB now isn't it?

[sacajaweeda]

I've had pretty good luck with these 200GB Western Digitals. Maxtors - the 80GB ones in particular - I've RMA'd several of them.

[TBoneit]

All brands of hard drive fail one way or another. It's a waste of time trying to say which brand is better than another because everyone's experience with those brands will be different. This thread can go on and on and end up no where. Simple just buy what you can afford. I have read on other computer forums report that seagate, ibm and western digital hard drives fail just as much as maxtor hard drives. The comment of why buy a drive with good replacement plan......how about why buy a drive like seagate that has a 5 year warranty......in my opinion buying a drive with a long warranty seems the company does not have the confidence the drive will last....just my 2 cents on that....

Budz, I believe you need to rethink that statement.

If Seagate believed they'd need to replace their drives they wouldn't offer the long warranty. The fact that they offer a 5 year warranty means they do not expect to have to warranty the drive. A Warranty replacement in these days of shrinking margains mean you went in the hole on that unit. IE instead of making money on the sale you lost money. Same for computers as drives. The Labor on warranty repairs eats any profit margain.

Cheers

[lacywest]

Check this link out

Bytecc ME-320 External 5.25" Enclosure

http://www.3dxtreme.net/index.php?id=byteccme-320enclosure1

I have one of these for my older Sony DRU-500A DVD Burner.

I'm getting ready to get another Bytecc ME-320 External 5.25" Enclosure and mount a 160 Gig Maxtor in it ... I've already bought it.

But I didn't have anymore USB 2.0 ... connections available but actually I do ... but didn't make use of them but in a few minutes I will shut down the computer and activate two more USB 2.0 ports[??] ... I'm going to attach a D bracket in my MSI mobo setup.

[ShaneJensen]

well to me, it would come down to a few things.

firewire would be good only for portability right? They'd be more expensive, and you need a cage for it.

Internal, cheaper, and probably somewhat more reliablye. Just make sure you have your cooling mechanisms going well to remove heat.

i think the sweet spot for hard drive sizes is around 160GB now isn't it?

I was thinking of the Seagate 300GB, sometimes I need that space. 160GB would be too small if I'm putting together a two hour video presentation. I keep all the videos DV right to the end until I encode them to DVD format before burning them to DVD to ensure quality.

If I have my editing drive on an external it would be attached with firewire. Would that be a problem while capturing? I always capture either from my DV camcorder or external analog DV converter ADVC-300, which both connect to the computer with firewire. So, I would be capturing into the computer from a firewire source and then saving to the editing hard drive which would then be connected to firewire. Would that really be problematic?

The only reason I would probably go external would be to keep it cooler and for easy replacement or portability in case I want to take my video work with me to another computer or something. I'm really torn here, but if it really is indeed better and more reliable to go internal and it can be proven I will decide on internal. But, I want to make sure this time before jumping into anything like I did the first time.

Another option I was thinking of was maybe using two hard drives for video editing. One internal and one external. Use a 160GB for internal and for heavy encoding and editing loads, and use a 300GB external more for temporary backlogged captured DV data storage.

[edDV]

...

...

If I have my editing drive on an external it would be attached with firewire. Would that be a problem while capturing? I always capture either from my DV camcorder or external analog DV converter ADVC-300, which both connect to the computer with firewire. So, I would be capturing into the computer from a firewire source and then saving to the editing hard drive which would then be connected to firewire. Would that really be problematic?

The only reason I would probably go external would be to keep it cooler and for easy replacement or portability in case I want to take my video work with me to another computer or something. I'm really torn here, but if it really is indeed better and more reliable to go internal and it can be proven I will decide on internal. But, I want to make sure this time before jumping into anything like I did the first time.

Another option I was thinking of was maybe using two hard drives for video editing. One internal and one external. Use a 160GB for internal and for heavy encoding and editing loads, and use a 300GB external more for temporary backlogged captured DV data storage.

"Capturing" DV streams from the camcorder or ADVC is different from OS file transfer. The stream is realtime and any errors encountered in the path to the hard drive result in data gaps that aren't corrected by the OS requesting a resend of lost packets. It's more risky than a simple file transfer. When you use an internal drive the data path is

DV device -> DV Stream over IEEE-1394 -> PC IEEE-1394 interface -> PCI bus -> HDD controller -> HDD physical drive

If you use an external hard drive the path becomes

DV device -> DV Stream over IEEE-1394 -> PC IEEE-1394 interface -> PCI bus -> 2nd PC IEEE-1394 interface -> DV Stream over IEEE-1394 -> 3rd IEEE-1394 interface -> External HDD controller -> HDD physical drive

Now a fast current generation desktop computer can keep up with all this but this second path is more risky for processing a realtime stream. The potential problem areas include interrupt priority on the PCI bus (proper bus mastering can be used to isolate OS interrupts), PC IEEE-1394 multiport driver performance with continous streams, external HDD controller realtime performance and setup delays*.

* for example can the external HDD controller immediately process the stream into a DV-AVI file without overhead communication with the OS? If the external HDD controller needs to chat with the OS, the integrity of the PCI bus mastering may be affected and/or data may be lost waiting for the OS priority.

If the external drive is USB2, the OS and CPU become a middleman in the process and the risk of error is considerably higher.

For all these reasons, it is better to "capture" DV streams to the internal drive. The slower the computer (e.g. notebooks) the more this applies.


Once the DV stream is processed into a DV-AVI file, further transfers are processed by the OS as a file transfer with all normal error correction. In this case external drives can be used during editing and encoding**. That is until realtime transfer back to the DV device is required. Then all of the issues above apply.

** applies only to software based editors and encoders. Realtime hardware can be problematic since multiple realtime DV data flows need to be synchronized.

[alsyed]

excellento information Edtv

[lenti_75]

no matter what you use, it's gonna die on you....

I never had any hdd problems until videomania. I use Western only and died after 1 yr, luckly has a 3 yrs warranty. but I know, it's gonna die again, after 1 yr,and change it again...

[edDV]

I've got a mix of Maxtor, Quantum, WD, Seagate, IBM-Hitachi, plus others most being used for video editing (about a dozen active and 8 retired drives).

No drives have fully failed since 1998 (a Quantum). I have a fairly new Maxtor 30GB that was making abnormal noise. It has been retired. I have another 160GB Maxtor with a problem partition. I'm not sure if it is a disk or OS problem yet.

I use my disks hard and have had few fail, and only one in an unrecoverable state (1998).

Short of normal data backup considerations, I don't see the need to worry about HDD failure.

[mikesbytes]

hehe, just for kicks 8) and if money is no object, :P you could slap a few of these on a PCI RAID card (one that supports RAID through hardware, not software).

Raptor 10k SATA 72GB at Newegg.

Ah on Teradata systems nowdays, they usually use 15k drives and to make them even quicker, only use half the space. The logic is, that 2 half full drives are faster than one full drive.

Has anyone tried out a RAID configuration for video usage?

[edDV]

Read message below first.

Lower end Pro editing systems that support multistream RAID are available here. Current realtime cards can support 2 or more simultaneous DV or SDI streams.

http://www.videoguys.com/prof.htm

A state of the art (dual Xeon) system will set you back $60K-450K

http://www.avid.com/products/composer/adrenalinehd/index.asp?pageElement=HDproduct

[edDV]

hehe, just for kicks 8) and if money is no object, :P you could slap a few of these on a PCI RAID card (one that supports RAID through hardware, not software).

Raptor 10k SATA 72GB at Newegg.

Has anyone tried out a RAID configuration for video usage?

Sure anyone doing MJPeg video editing back in the pre-ATA66 and SCSI I, II, III days is well aware of RAID zero. Today for consumer DV editing RAID is unnecessary. Normal HDDs are plenty fast enough for one or even two streams.

If you are operating in a multistream realtime hardware pro DV, HDV or more likely SDI serial or multi SDI HDTV and film editing world, RAID still has a place especially if central servers are being used.

Typical systems operating in this world price out over $10K ($30K-$200k up typical)

[funkguy4]

is encoding really hard drive intensive? or is it just a whole lotta seeking (which is hard drive intensive....:P)
one hard drive to carry the input
the other to take the output
sounds good to me

[edDV]

is encoding really hard drive intensive? or is it just a whole lotta seeking (which is hard drive intensive....:P)
one hard drive to carry the input
the other to take the output
sounds good to me

Software based systems put low demand on the HDD. Only when multistream realtime hardware is added do the HDD's have to step up and perform. Remember that a DV camcorder/transcoder is a single stream hardware accelerated system.

[bmiller]

I was thinking of installing 2 new sata 200-250 gb internal drives,but i gather from this thread it is quite unnecessary.I currently have a 40gb for the operating system and a 120 gb. for the video.I believe they are both 7200,although i don't know how to check without removing them from the case.The older 40gb is getting a little noisy,so i thought it was about time to think replacement.Maybe just a 80-120 gb pata drive would suffice. The sata drives would provide better cooling inside,as the cables are so small.
What to do?

[gabe]

One of my friend has taken apart his dead HD and found two disks
inside.
Maybe 2 separeted 120gHD with Raid is better choice. (?)

[edDV]

IMO, any use of RAID zero these days requires proof of need.

It just isn't needed at the consumer level and any data on that RAID 0 is at risk.

Edit: Single stream DV can be transfered with reasonable safety to a current 5400 RPM desktop drive (not an old one).

Gamers who expect magic by putting the C:\windows drive on a dual Raptor RAID are getting little if any benefit and a great deal of data risk.

[TBoneit]

Check this link out

Bytecc ME-320 External 5.25" Enclosure

http://www.3dxtreme.net/index.php?id=byteccme-320enclosure1

I have one of these for my older Sony DRU-500A DVD Burner.

I'm getting ready to get another Bytecc ME-320 External 5.25" Enclosure and mount a 160 Gig Maxtor in it ... I've already bought it.

But I didn't have anymore USB 2.0 ... connections available but actually I do ... but didn't make use of them but in a few minutes I will shut down the computer and activate two more USB 2.0 ports[??] ... I'm going to attach a D bracket in my MSI mobo setup.

FWIW I run 3 of these 4th to be added tonight. They never give me trouble beyond that the fan could be a quieter model. 3 for hard drives one for the burner. I'm using one with a remvable kit in it. Not a goiod fit as it is to long to lookm good, but works fine anyway. Why these, Cheap, reliable, ASUS MB has 8 USB 2.0.

Cheers

[trock]

I know it's already been mentioned but I wanted to re-emphasize one key point and that is about external drive enclosures being big enough to handle the heat generated by some of these drives.

I have 13 drives connected to 3 computers in my studio and many of them are external firewire and USB drives.

Without fail all of the larger drives (no matter the manufacturer) in those slimline external cases - with or without fans - will overheat way too easily and get erratic, drop frames, die during renders etc. and have to be shut down if I don't run a constant external room fan on them.

The only external that I can safely just keep running during disk-intensive jobs without any problems or external fans is a 200GB Seagate that is in a much larger case designed specifically by Seagate to avoid such overheating problems.

Watch out for those slimline cases with large drives, with or without fans.

[lacywest]

[quote="TBoneit

FWIW I run 3 of these 4th to be added tonight. They never give me trouble beyond that the fan could be a quieter model. 3 for hard drives one for the burner. I'm using one with a remvable kit in it. Not a goiod fit as it is to long to lookm good, but works fine anyway. Why these, Cheap, reliable, ASUS MB has 8 USB 2.0.

Cheers[/quote]

So ... How long have you running the other 3 ... a year ... months ??

The fan in them can't be too bad ... I can put my hand back there and feel the air blowing out.

[lordsmurf]

A large internal Seagate (on an Ultra ATA card, most likely) would be my choice.

[funkguy4]

A large internal Seagate (on an Ultra ATA card, most likely) would be my choice.

Same, except more on SATA, if I had the financial backing . But for the most cost effective solution i'd have to say stick w/ this. or a samsung

[gmatov]

Seagate's are made in China, as in China, one reason they have a 5 year warranty, to get the discriminating public to buy them, as they have a FIVE YEAR WARRANTY.

They are more expensive, yet, than other brands, before rebate, though the cost break building in China should make them cheaper.

I have bought 1, a 200 gig, did not know it was Chinese till I opened it. Would not have bought it, had I known.

And, when another mfg goes Chinese, will be the last I buy, till there is no choice.

Have Max, have WD, have Samsung, no Hitachi, nee IBM.

Little difference in life expectancy. You got one that died, roll of the dice. Hundreds of millions made, someone has to get one that dies too soon. Just that them who got them are the loudest, as in every other manufactured product in the world.

You bitch about this, I love it.

I bitch about that piece of trash, you swear by it. HHHYUUUMANSSS. You're all the same, diverse as can be.

Cheers,

George

[richdvd]

I have bought 1, a 200 gig, did not know it was Chinese till I opened it. Would not have bought it, had I known.

Lots of electronics/computer parts are made in China.
This is really nothing new.
And it looks like as time goes on, more and more stuff will be coming from China. It's all about manufacturer's saving money on labour costs.
It's really too bad though.

[gmatov]

I made that point, previously, where a member said to buy a US made MOBO or vid card or anything else.

There are very damned few, if any.

Everything is going to China, and until the last is made there, I will buy one that is not.

Simple as that.

As an aside, once upon a time when I was a Westighouser, we sold the technology to China to build medium generators to China, rather than build them to sell to them. Old tech, they said. China is still there. Westinghouse is not. Nor my pension, which I would have been on 2 years ago.

So!!!!

Cheers,

George

[budz]

TBoneit wrote

Budz, I believe you need to rethink that statement.

If Seagate believed they'd need to replace their drives they wouldn't offer the long warranty. The fact that they offer a 5 year warranty means they do not expect to have to warranty the drive. A Warranty replacement in these days of shrinking margains mean you went in the hole on that unit. IE instead of making money on the sale you lost money. Same for computers as drives. The Labor on warranty repairs eats any profit margain.

In my opinion as I have already stated any brand of hard drives will eventually fail one way or another. A company in my opinion that gives a long warranty does not have faith or confidence that their products will last. That is just my 2 cents. Who really cares about profits for a corporation, just the CEO's really care cuz that's who's making all the money.

now back to the topic at hand. buy whatever brand you want to get and can afford. Every brand of hard drive will fail one way or another. I don't care what anyone says. I've heard of every brand fail in a months time, years time, and days. i am surprised this thread has not been locked already because we're just going round and round on the issue of a good hard drive for video editing. good suggestions were made and seems to me we need to move on. just my 2 BIG cents!!!!

[BogieV]

<<Another option I was thinking of was maybe using two hard drives for video editing. >>

Deffinetely use 2 drives - helps a lot to speed up the editing process if you use clever the prerender and render output (not reading and writng to the same drive all the time).

I use 200GB for OS/video/docs (3 partitions) and 160GB for video (both Seagate - 50C at the hottest summer day in a small factor cramped case). Good cooling is important no matter the brand - over 50 degrees for extended periods will shorten your HDD'l life if not lead to failure.
I also use external FireWire drives in cheap cases - no problem so far (exept Maxtor drive failed in a set of IO-Data external HDD). Now I removed it and put on it's place WD 160 GB - to my surprise it runs quiter than Hitachi in different externall case.
I've heard only good things for Samsung - about as quite and cool as Seagate but better performers. Get 2x160 instead of 300GB drive.