Hardware or software for MPEG-2 encoding?

[tluxon]

I have a AIW9600Pro that I love for how much I can tweak my captures, but I don't like being hamstrung by an AIW card. I picked up a Adaptec VideOh! DVD Media Center USB 2.0 for $75 (after rebate through 1/29). I like the idea that I can hook it up to my notebook or my desktop and that it has a hardware MPEG2 encoder, but I'm not sure I'd be happy with how well it helps me archive my family Hi8 video tapes? I don't really want to open the box and forfeit full refund if there's doubt about how well it will do.

I doubt if I'll be able to choose non-standard resolutions and alter the I, B, and P frames per GOP and such like I can with the AIW, but maybe that's not that big a deal? Maybe I should go for a separate PCI solution like the ATi Home Theater 550-based Sapphire Theatrix Theater 550 instead? What do you think?

Thanks,

Tim

[thecoalman]

Personally I wouldn't archive video using MPEG especially if your getting good AVI captures from the AIW. https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=255042

If you haven't been there go here for info on capturing with a ATI: www.digitalfaq.com

If mpeg is the way you want to go I've heard mostly excellent comments about the Hauppage cards, I woulod assume that would carry over to there external devices.

[handyguy]

Or just get a dvd recorder. A nice Panasonic e55 is $150 at Walmart. Makes a dvd in a jiffy from Hi8 I have done it.

[tluxon]

I guess I should clarify. I've been working with MPEG-2 for a long time and have had great success with the kind of editing I like to do. I've worked with AVI and actually prefer MPEG-2. I've had AIW Radeons since 2001 and I've edited video from my ReplayTVs since about the same time, so I've had a ton of experience with DVD spec MPEG-2 and feel very confident with it. I've found that the hardware encoders in my Replays do a very good job with TV source video, but fall significantly short of the capability of my AIWs with Hi8/VHS source.

I believe that having the AIW prevents me from getting something that would serve me better as a graphics card for industrial strength solid modeling, so I've been looking at going with a separate card or an external solution. In looking into it, I see a lot of people touting the advantages of an onboard mpeg encoder and can appreciate the merits of greatly reducing the use of the CPU on a multi-tasking computer.

I think I'd be willing to go that direction even though it probably means a slight reduction in capture quality, but I'd like to hear from other proponents and opponents of hardware encoders for capturing non-TV sources.

[gshelley61]

I use a JVC DVD recorder as a real-time hardware MPEG2 capturing device (I record to DVD-RW, then edit and author on the computer) and am very pleased with the results. The audio is AC3 from the start, too.

[tluxon]

I'm glad you mentioned this. It sure seems like the simplest way to do the bulk of our conversions, and I can do almost any of the editing I want with Womble's Mpeg Video Wizard. I like to tweek the capturing somewhat, but by far I'm most limited by the quality of playback I can get from our current tape players.

I was curious about one important thing, however. We haven't used tape media in so long that most of our source material is at least 10 years old. The reason I mention this is because a few years ago I tested out how well the built-in MPEG2 encoder of one of my ReplayTVs worked for capturing this input. I was surprised at how often it skipped over short glitches where perhaps the signal wasn't as strong as it was looking for (it is, afterall, primarily a TV recorder). Even though I have a different set of challenges when capturing with the AIW, it seems to do better in regards to those "glitches". What has been your experience when recording from older tapes? Do you have much of a problem with short segments of the tape that don't capture at all, or will the DVD recorder pretty much record everything you see when viewing the tape on a TV?

By the way, I'm not nearly as concerned with losing a little quality as I am with losing content.

Thanks!

[davideck]

Before settling on the Hauppauge PVR-250, I tried the PCI version of the Adaptec VideOh!. The Hauppauge provided a noticeable improvement. Perhaps the same is true for the external versions?

[gshelley61]

To avoid (and likely eliminate) dropped frames during capture, whether to a DVD recorder or a computer card, you should invest in a TBC/Frame Sync. The Datavideo TBC-1000 and the AVTools AVT-8710 are a couple of good consumer units. The AVT-8710 even has a built in proc amp that allows for adjustment of contrast (luma), brightness (black level), color (chroma level), hue (chroma phase, white balance), and sharpness.

Besides providing a stable sync pulse that prevents dropped frames from occuring in the first place, a great side benefit of having a TBC/Frame Sync is that all copy protection signals are totally defeated (as well as fix analog videotapes that suffer from "false MV" signals). Keep in mind that digital videotape and laserdiscs do not require time base correction... only analog videotape.

The line TBC's in high end S-VHS VCR's and DVD recorders are not full frame correction devices, and will not defeat copy protection. Sometimes they are also not robust enough to correct bad timing errors (one of the causes of dropped frames). For home video tapes in at least fair condition, units like the JVC HR-S9600U, the 9800, the 9911, etc. have a built in line TBC/DNR (digital noise reduction) circuit that generally does a very good job of time base error correction and image clean up. For some tapes that are in very poor condition (and definitely for commercial VHS that is copy protected), a full frame TBC would be necessary.

An alternative for capturing commercial tapes is to use a "stabilizer" or "clarifier". They are designed to defeat most types of copy protection. Sima makes a couple of these units ("Copy This").

[tluxon]

@davideck
Thanks for the observation about the Adaptec VideOh. I suspected as much and plan to be returning the item. I just picked it up because I was in the store and didn't want to pass up such a deal if it was really pretty good.

@gshelley61
I bought a "stabilizer" almost 20 years ago for recording tapes "infected" by macrovision, but I never thought I'd be pulling it out of storage again. I really don't have any commercial tapes in mind, but I am curious if something like that would have any affect on how well tapes can be captured. I was reluctant to install it in line for fear that the two extra connection points might hurt more than the stabilizer will help.

It seems like you're saying there are a couple benefit/cost options I have available to me. For simplicity and likely lower cost I'd prefer an all-in-one solution (DVD recorder & VCR) if there are any with a decent line TBC (I assume by "line TBC" you're referring to those with internal TBC features). Do you know of any? Otherwise, is a TBC going to be much good without at least a good VCR for playing back the tapes?

Of course, I have about 20 hours of Hi8 family videos to capture as well. I'm not sure if I have any choice other than to use the Sony camcorder for playback of those and perhaps an external TBC would be essential in that case.

Any advice?

[gshelley61]

A line TBC refers to the correction window... that is, a line TBC provides sync timing pulse correction one scan line (or perhaps several scan lines) at a time. Full frame TBC's correct one or more frames (that's 525 scan lines) at a time, and also ensure frame synchronization.

Unfortunately, combo DVD recorder/VHS units are mostly a waste of money because the VCR section is cheaply made. There is a pro line unit made by JVC that has a better quality S-VHS VCR in it, but it is about $800 so there is no cost benefit.

Get a standalone DVD recorder and a separate high quality S-VHS VCR like the JVC 9000 series models I mentioned in the earlier post. Your Hi8 home videotapes will probably capture just fine played back on the camera you recorded them with, especially since they are first generation and I assume are in good shape. The line TBC in the DVD recorder will likely be robust enough for that.

One tip, when capturing hand held camcorder tapes, use the highest quality (XP, 1 hour) setting on the DVD recorder. Because the images in that type of footage have nearly constant foreground and background movement, it takes lots of bit rate to encode the MPEG2 so as to avoid macroblocking motion artifacts.