How fast will they go?

[Red96TA]

CD-R stopped at 52x...

Two years ago, folks here were saying that anything faster than 8x on a dvd-r would blow the writer up...

The question is...how fast do you think dvdr technology will go before they decide it's fast enough?

[richdvd]

I am gonna say 24x....just a wild guess.
Personally I will never burn video over 8x.

[alexgeo]

I'd be even more restrictive and say that 16x is the max.
And for standalone player compatibility i'd never burn faster than 4x.

[rhegedus]

It's a problem of diminishing returns.

4x burns in about 17 mins

8x burns in about 9 mins

I'm not sure how fast 16x burns (don't see the point in upgrading) but is it really worth going any faster just to same an extra minute or so?

Probably not.

[bazooka]

CD-R stopped at 52x...

The question is...how fast do you think dvdr technology will go before they decide it's fast enough?

It will stop at 16X.

That is the top read speed on a dvd-rom drive.

A cd-rom drive can go up to 56X

[nerys]

hmmm 8x burns in 11 minutes for me but I can burn at 16x in just over 6 minutes (nice)

what is nice is the entire pricess at 16x is ~14 minutes (burn and verify always learned my lesson from thst)

the verification takes longer than the burn !!

Chris Taylor
http://www.zodiacreview.com/

[sssax2003]

hmmm 8x burns in 11 minutes for me but I can burn at 16x in just over 6 minutes (nice)

what is nice is the entire pricess at 16x is ~14 minutes (burn and verify always learned my lesson from thst)

the verification takes longer than the burn !!

Chris Taylor
http://www.zodiacreview.com/

REally? 8x burns for me in 8 min.
6x burns for me in 10 min.
4x burns for me in 14 min.

[jtommyj]

Different burners can use different write strategies for differetn medias so an (8x) burn on one machine can be faster than an (8x) burn on another (CAV vs. P-CAV vs. Z-CAV).

Same with other speeds. I have a NEC 3500 that is one of the slower 8x burners (around 9 to 10 minutes) but one of the fastest 16x burners (sub-6 minutes to 6:30 depending on files being burned.etc.).

[chas0039]

My guess is that new advances will go into faster DL and Blu Ray technologies and the like. I think this is a waste but I think this will cap SL speed at 16X for a while.

[nerys]

what I want is -R DL so I can use them in standalone dvd players !!!

Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/

[vitualis]

16x will be the fastest.

There are limitations to how fast you can rotate a disc safely inside a drive.

Regards.

[Capmaster]

16x will be the fastest.

There are limitations to how fast you can rotate a disc safely inside a drive.

Regards.

Not only safety, but the faster you rotate it, the more any imbalances in the disc will become apparent. The laser won't write properly, or read for that matter, if there is too much radial or axial movement in the disc.

[BetaMaster]

Yeah, I agree with the camp that limits write and read speed to 16X on a DVD. You just can't spin the disc much faster than that. Remember that the "base" speed for CD is a lot lower than the base speed for DVD, 1X DVD = about 4X (and a bit) CD.

Of course, HD and Blu-Ray will get higher transfer speeds because they pack more information into the same space. The information flowing out of even an HD-DVD at peak is a lot slower than what comes out of your hard drive - the computer sees the DVD-ROM as a very slow drive, even at 16X.

[Capmaster]

Actually 1X DVD is about 9X CD, IMSC. 1X CD = 150 kb/s and 1X DVD is 1350 or so Kb/s, isn't it? Much higher base rate.

[bazooka]

Actually 1X DVD is about 9X CD, IMSC. 1X CD = 150 kb/s and 1X DVD is 1350 or so Kb/s, isn't it? Much higher base rate.

You are correct sir.
http://www.thepc.info/DVD-writer.html

1x is about nine times faster on DVD-ROM than on CD-ROM. On DVD-ROM 1x corresponds to about 11.08 megabits per second. This means that it takes about 12 minutes for the burner to write one gigabyte if it has a speed of 1x.

[holistic]

To clear up misinformation

DVD-ROM drives spin the disc a lot slower than their CD-ROM counterparts. However, since the data is packed much closer together on DVD discs, the throughput is substantially better than a CD-ROM drive at equivalent spin speed. While a 1x CD-ROM drive has a maximum data rate of only 150 KBps, a 1x DVD-ROM drive can transfer data at 1,250 KBps, which is just over the speed of an 8x CD-ROM drive

The question is not how fast the media spins but how fast it spins and accurately reads the data. A 16x drive is no good if continually makes bad disks.

edit : blah . what he said.

[nerys]

well fingers crossed so far so good. I always verify every burn and so far 15+ burns at 16x no bad burns yet !! I went back to get more of these discs while they were on sale GRRR they are out GRRR and they would not apply the equivalent pricing to the plentiful stock of 25 and 100 packs of the same discs (plentiful cause 80cents a disc is nuts

Hopefully they will go on sale again soon

Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/

[vitualis]

Actually 1X DVD is about 9X CD, IMSC. 1X CD = 150 kb/s and 1X DVD is 1350 or so Kb/s, isn't it? Much higher base rate.

True, but 1x DVD is about 3x CD in terms of the physical rotation rate.

16 x 3 = 48

Thus, the max. "spin" rate for a CD is about 50x and for DVD 16x.

Although I agree that it becomes more difficult to read a disc properly at higher spin rates, I think the problem is still mainly one of safety. Beyond 50x CD, microfractures on the disc platter can catastrophically spread across the disc --> "explosion".

Regards.

[nerys]

ehh so what. its not like those fragments could possible get outside of the drive and be a danger to you ie no safety issue

plus they would clearly have to make them stronger

either way 16x is fast enough for me 6 minute burn 14 minute burn/verify is plenty fast enough to please me

Chris Taylor
http://www.zodiacreview.com/

[gmatov]

Michael,

Where'd you get those numbers? I have heard 10,000 RPM for CDs, not sure I believe that.

16X as a maximum READ means nothing. You only need X data per second, and 16X is more than enough for video, and, I think, for data. Some 20 MBs.

HDDs average mebbe 28 MBs constant throughput, 50 or more burst.

I read recently, at a site I can't recall to link to, that a 32X is in the works. So, what is the rotational rate of THAT drive?

I don't think they HAVE a better polycarbonate, that we could afford, to replace what they are using now.

I DO believe they could dope the bottoms to be more scratch resistant, as they make eyeglasses and motorcycle face shields so tough that you take a header, face down, on the pavement, it barely scratches it, or so they say.

What are the speeds going to be when the Blu-Ray and the other, the 50 gig format comes out. I don't know if the lineal density is going to be 10 times greater, so they can use the same max rotational speed, or a tighter spiral

Ah, well, we'll see.

Cheers,

George

[vitualis]

Where'd you get those numbers? I have heard 10,000 RPM for CDs, not sure I believe that.

A 52x CD drive rotates at 10,000-20,000 RPM.

I read recently, at a site I can't recall to link to, that a 32X is in the works. So, what is the rotational rate of THAT drive?

Not that I've read. Also, it can't exist for safety reasons (unless they are doing something funky like using two reading lasers and so the rotational speed is less).

DVD FAQ on DVD read speed: http://www.dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html#4.2

The data transfer rate from a DVD-ROM disc at 1x speed is roughly equivalent to a 9x CD-ROM drive (1x CD-ROM data transfer rate is 150 KB/s, or 0.146 MB/s). DVD physical spin rate is about 3 times faster than CD (that is, 1x DVD spin ~ 3x CD spin)

Info on exploding CDs at high rotational rates:
http://www.powerlabs.org/cdexplode.htm
http://www.gadgetopia.com/2004/02/18/ExplodingCDs.html

I would not want to be hit with a polycarbonate fragment even if it were initially protected inside the CD drive!

As I stated before, the current rotational rates of drives have reached the limit to what can be safely done with CD and DVD media.

Regards.

[bazooka]

Thus, the max. "spin" rate for a CD is about 50x.

Not true, because cd's are capable of a 56X spin rate.

There are 56X cd-rom drives out on the market.

[vitualis]

... about ...

as in "around" or "approximately".



Regards.

[bazooka]

... about ...

as in "around" or "approximately".



Regards.

Okee Dokee