Do you own a gun?

[Doramius]

The NRA says they are for anyone that can handle them. Those that can't handle them should just stick with unstable explosives made from household chemicals.

[ViRaL1]

The NRA says they are for anyone that can handle them. Those that can't handle them should just stick with unstable explosives made from household chemicals.

...and Volkswagens.

[Doramius]

The NRA says they are for anyone that can handle them. Those that can't handle them should just stick with unstable explosives made from household chemicals.

...and Volkswagens.

[sacajaweeda]

...and Volkswagens.

Volkswagens aren't for everybody either, regardless of Hitler's thoughts on the matter.

[Doramius]

That's why there's Volvo.

[ViRaL1]

...and Volkswagens.

Volkswagens aren't for everybody either, regardless of Hitler's thoughts on the matter.

Never trust a man with one testicle.

[gmatov]

Sac,

mine has been in the cellar for many years, mainly because I reload, and the low numbers have brittle recievers. 'Fraid to shoot it, but have a bunch of others, so no big deal.

Doramius,

The first time I, personally, shot trap, a buddy, with whom I had hunted all morning, talked me into going to the trap range after. I was carrying a Browning Auto 5 that day. A sweet hunting gun. 7 rounds of trap, when I went to work that night, my shoulder was one big ass mass of black and blue.

I bought a Remington 870 TB the next day. 10 rounds, 250 shots, was nothing, after that. Joined the ATA, 200 shots at 16 mebbe 50 or a 100 Doubles, the same day, samey-same. You just don't shoot a 10 guage that many times without immense pain, unless you are a masochist.

Graduated from that to a Remington 1100, then to a Browning Superposed, both sweet shooting guns. Still have both, have to go shoot them a little more.

The 700 rounds per minute above means nothing unless the guy has a license for full auto weapons. 3500, I believe it is, at the . And visits at any time from the ATF

But this IS online, and you can say any thing you want, on line. Trouble is, some of you believe every thing you read, on line.

Cheers,

George

[gummyAvenger]

The 700 rounds per minute above means nothing unless the guy has a license for full auto weapons. 3500, I believe it is, at the . And visits at any time from the ATF

Are you referring to what I said about my gun shooting 700 rounds per minute? I was talking about my AirSoft gun... doesn't fire live ammunition... only little plastic balls.

[BJ_M]

enough to choke you to death

[ZAPPER]

The "03" is a great rifle considering its' age. I haven't been to a gun show in many years but it used to be easy to come by. I have heard that some old military rifles had been cut in two right thru the receiver and that gunsmiths would weld them back together and sell them. I don't know this to be a fact but it does kind of scare me to think about. The 03 has been modified, sporterized, chopped, streched, retubed, glass bedded and so much more by so many people that sometimes if the owner doesn't say you can't even tell what it is. The 30-06 round gets alot of scoffs and is put down by alot of people comparing its' performance to some newer rounds. But if I can see the target with my naked eye I think that I can hit it with plain old open sights( it may take a couple of warm up shots) And a 30-06 will kill you just as dead as 7mm Mag!

[BJ_M]

30-06 is considered by many people to be one of the best all around cartidges ever made .. plus cheap to buy and reload .. (i use it also)

If rifle, cartridge, and reloading die sales, along with hunter opinion mean anything, the .30-06 is still the most popular big game cartridge in the world. Which is saying a lot when we consider that even after close to a century of trying, we still haven't come up with a cartridge that comes close to threatening it popularity.

Developed and introduced by Springfield Armory in 1906, the .30-06 is a slightly shorter version of the earlier .30-03 cartridge. Its development as a U.S. military cartridge was inspired by Germany's development of the 7 x 57mm and 8 x 57mm Mauser cartridges. In addition to serving as the primary U.S. battle cartridge until 1952, the .30-06 has established a track record on target ranges and in the game fields that has yet to be equaled by any other cartridge. Other cartridges have now set more accuracy records and many hunters now choose more powerful cartridges for big game, but no cartridge has served both roles better than the .30-06.

When one takes a close look at the .30-06, the reasons behind its success become quite clear. To begin with, the .30-06 is about the most powerful cartridge the average shooter can handle without suffering discomfort. To end with, the .30-06 shoots flat enough for long range shooting of deer and pronghorn and it hits hard enough for most of the world's big game. As a bonus, a good bolt action rifle in .30-06 is accurate enough for varmint shooting even though it is far too much cartridge for such a task.

Hunter opinion on the best bullet weights for the .30-06 differ, but the 150 grain for deer size game and the 180 grain for everything else still makes a lot of sense. When all is said and done, the handloader with IMR-4350, IMR-4064, H4350, H414, and W-760 sitting on his powder shelf needs to look no farther.

Source: Hodgdon Data Manual, 26th Edition

Historical Notes:

In 1903 the United States government adopted a new military loading to replace the 30 Army (30-40 Krag), which had been adopted in 1892. Like the 30-40 Krag, this new (30-Caliber, Model of 1903) cartridge featured a 220 grain round nosed full metal jacket bullet. However, the '03 increased muzzle velocity by about 100 fps, even though the M1903 rifle featured a significantly shorter barrel. The rimless cartridge design, generously borrowed from Mauser, was also an improvement as it featured superior feeding from a box magazine. Nevertheless, as seems to have been typical of that era, the U.S. Army was slow to the task of modernizing. As the 30-03 was standardized, all other world powers were in the process of adopting spitzer bulleted military loadings. The brand new 30-03 became instantly obsolescent. A crash program was instituted and in 1906 a modified version of this basic cartridge was adopted as the 30 Caliber, Model of 1906. That loading featured a lighter spitzer bullet and a shorter case neck. The spitzer bullets had a much shorter bearing surface so the existing rifles were modified by turning back the barrels two threads and recutting the chambers.

General Comments:

The 30-06 Springfield is a United States military cartridge adopted in 1906 for the Model 1903 Springfield service rifle, which was based on the Mauser bolt action system. The 30-06 is actually a slightly modified version of the original 1903 cartridge, which was loaded with a 220-grain round noseded bullet at a muzzle velocity of 2300fps. Because of cartridge developments in Europe, it was considered advisable to change to a lighter weight, pointed 150-grain bullet at an increased velocity of 2700 fps. At the same time the case neck was shortened by .07". This improved round was designated the "Ball Cartridge, caliber 30, Model of 1906," but in practice, the nomenclature was shortened to 30-06. The 30-06 version can be chambered and fired in any rifle made for the original 1903 round, but the reverse is not true because of the difference in case length. For many years both the 1903 and 1906 configurations were loaded by sporting ammunition manufacturers. Shooting the '06 in the '03 chamber reportedly gave poor accuracy. Old catalogs list both rounds. Occasionally the 1903 version is called the 30-45 because original loading used 45 grains of smokeless powder.

Again, because of military developments in Europe, the Army switched to a 172-grain bullet with a 9-degree boattail in 1926, the new round being designated the "Ball, caliber 30,M1." Muzzle velocity, originally the same as the 150-grain load of 2700 fps, was later reduced to 2640 fps because of difficulty maintaining pressure specifications at the higher velocity. In 1940, the 150-grain flat base bullet was re-adopted as the "Cartridge, Ball, caliber 30, M2" and that was the load used in WWII. The return to the lighter bullet came about, at least in part, because of difficulties adapting the new Garand semi-automatic rifle to handle the 172-grain load. The heavier boattail bullet was superior for machine gun use because of its greater maximum range of nearly 6000 yards, compared to about 3500 yards for the 150-grain loading.

The rimless 30-03 and 30-06 replaced the older rimmed 30-40 Krag as the official U.S. military round. The 30-06 has, in turn, been superseded by the 7.62x51mm, also known as the 7.62mm NATO or, in its commercial version, the .308 Winchester. In Europe, the 30-06 is known as the 7.62x63mm.

During WWII, the U.S. government supplied arms and ammunition in 30-06 caliber to many Allied nations including Great Britain, Netherlands, France, China, Australia, New Zealand and Brazil. To maintain their inventory of weapons, many countries undertook manufacture of 30-06 ammunition after the war.

In the 1950's and 1960's, vast quantities of surplus 30-06 ammunition was sold on the U.S. market. Shooters will often encounter Ball, armor piercing and tracer types. Ammunition loaded before and during WWII is corrosively primed. Practically all U.S. military ammunition loaded after 1952 has non-corrosive primers. The principal exception is Frankford Arsenal Match ammunition marked FA53, 54, or 56, which has the old style corrosive priming.

Source: Cartridges of the World

[gmatov]

Outstanding post, BJ.

One of the truly great cartridges ever produced, a 100+ years old and still going strong.

They still use them at Williamsport, at the 1000 yard shoots, even though such as 6.5-338 and the like are favored.

And the 7 m/m is, actually a superior bullet, if you consider ballistic coefficients, ie, longer and thinner, so more like a spear and hence, more accurate. My own 7 m/m Interarms shoots like a sonomabitch, but it kicks the hell outa me. 06s are relatively sweet to shoot.

In Boot Camp, I was issued anj M-14, in .308. I had shot M1s before the service. The M-14 was a piece of shit, compared, anf a few years later it was scrapped, which was good, but replaced with a 22, aka .223, what, 5.6X23 or whatever?

If you couldn't larn 'em to shoot, give 'em a whole buncha light ammo and let 'em blast away, they might hit something.

And then, the first batch came out, couldn't keep 'em in a foot at a 100 yds, all keyholes, Colt said, and the Army swore to it, that that was the design, a bullet flipping itself over in midair caused a bigger wound.

Change the twist, and today it is the most used varmint cartridge there is.

Pretty accurate, but still a little ball. And if there was not so much surplus ammo available, mebbe less so, as to popularity

You couldn't hit a Charlie, but if you did, it would hurt him more.

Can anybody say .244 Remington, and the wrong twist, hence the wrong spin to give gyroscopic balance, hence flight to heavier bullets that deer hunters required? Later renamed the 6 m/m, and an outstanding cartridge?

Anyone know why we are, now, into these really short, fat mags? Short mag was one thing, short actions, short stroke, recall the .350 Mag.

But now they are going to these ridiculously short cases, fat, and ugly.

I guess it's an age thing. I like things like the .45-100-3.5. Quigley stuff, youi know?

Cheers,

George

[BJ_M]

even the russians have switched from the nice little 7.62x39 to a 5.6 (.223) for some odd reason , though the ak47 and its variations is still the most popular gun in the world -- over 50 million of them being built ...

The Ruger mini 30 was the first to use the ak47 ammo in north america , except it has a .308 barrel and the ak47's have a .311 barrel ...

so you can re-load mini 30's w/ .308 sized , or use the any of the tonnes of surplus ammo 7.62x39 as long as it doesnt have corrosive primers (watch out for norelco)

[ZAPPER]

The original AR15/M16 as it was designed by Stoner was a nice tight toy. But the military and the powers that be, all but sabotaged it. Changes to the barrel rifleings, receiver and even the round botched it up. The rifle was actually detuned because research had shown that the average soldier while able to make longer shots was not actually taking the longer shots in combat so the requirements for MER were lessoned. The military instead of going back to the original design has been upgradeing and tweeking the rifle eversince. The quest for an all around military rifle continues. It has finally become apparent that no one rifle or round will ever meet or fill the needs of the military, and this is leading to the multi barrel rifles with wider options for ammo and their uses. Either way I don't want to get hit by any of them!

[Capmaster]

But the military and the powers that be, all but sabotaged it

Having the toy company Mattel build it probably didn't help its image.

Guys in the bush would take the AK-47s from their kills and use them instead because the damn .223 would have trouble penetrating foliage and staying accurate. It wasn't the best cartridge for jungle warfare :P

[bazooka]

Do you have a gun?

No

[ZAPPER]

I don't know the source, but there was research on the subject of bullets going thru the bush. There was a difference but it was actually smaller than most made it out to be. I seem to recall that the final report wasn't supposed to go public but got leeked. The thoughts on the subject were that any info that had a negative impact on the performance of the system was not good for moral. Of course for the man in the bush one failure was enough to prove the point and any rumor of bad performance is just as good as fact. But 100 banana leaves hardly make a dent in the actual performance of the round when you are useing area fire techniques. Aimed fire is impossible to determine the effects of in the feild because you can't see the target thru the bush. This is where the lab test showed that the bullet actually did deviate from target, but for each different round and their performance specs the extrapolated performance wasn't all that great between different rounds. But yes the 223 did veer and tumble, but there were at least two other rounds that did worse. I think that a shot gun was one and the other may not have even been a military round. The trouble with the research is that the man in the feild did not want to hear any negatives about his weapon system and did not like mathmatic evaluations when it came to his life. Can't say that I blame him. Guys bitched about humping light weapons, just imagine if it was twice as heavy and didn't give any real advantage.

[rallynavvie]

Guys in the bush would take the AK-47s from their kills

And then hope that the other allies didn't think they were enemy forces because of the familiar chatter of the Kalashnikov. You can tell those from almost any distance.

[Doramius]

@gmatov - I didn't say I didn't have any pain. That many rounds should have been shot much quicker, but I had to stop every so often because it felt like my arm was going to fall off, but I wanted to do it. I had a nice setup and it is very possible for one to shoot a whole heck of a lot of 10 gauge fire.

If you want to see if it's possible, you come hunting with me some time. I shoot it enough times I know exactly where to set the padding.