JVC DR-M10 Loading and Repair Question

[trhouse]

If you enable "power save mode" to avoid it, you are delaying the inevitable. Just use the unit as you would normally. Power Save is described on the Display page of the manual.

[MiG-45]

trhouse,

No, I`m not going to give up. At least until I will not want to buy a new one. But I don`t want to buy a new one yet ) Just timeout in experiments until I have some work to do first ) About DVD Dl format - sorry I mean 8,4 Gb size of caurse ). Question that KeepItSimple asked also interesting me - what if porblem begans when I tryed powersave mode on ?

[Ade007]

I just got the jvc-mh30 yesterday and I plugged it in and it started blanking "Loading". These's nothing I can do because the only way it stops blanking "Loading" is if I unpplug it. I've tried unplugging it and then blugging it back on but I still get the same error.

I called crutchield and they said another one will be shipped to me because theres nothing that can be done if we can't get by the "Loading error".

[MiG-45]

MAybe you need to wait a bit more before Loading disapper ? Because when I bought my DR-M10 it also took about 2-3 mins before loading stoped flashing. It makes shop`s perosnal getting nerveous though something was wrong, but in fact it was only first time you switch it on.

[tangerine]

I just got the jvc-mh30 yesterday and I plugged it in and it started blanking "Loading". These's nothing I can do because the only way it stops blanking "Loading" is if I unpplug it. I've tried unplugging it and then blugging it back on but I still get the same error.

I called crutchield and they said another one will be shipped to me because theres nothing that can be done if we can't get by the "Loading error".

Don't despair. That is normal for 1 minute. Did you wait for a minute?
If blinkig stops after a minute then your recorder is fine.
I have a DR-MH20 (the same as DR-MH30 except the HDD only 80 GB) and mine does the same from the very first time. I was also horrified when I first saw "Loading" but there was a paper sticked on the machine claiming that is normal.

[Ade007]

It's been on for hours now with it still blinking "Loading". Yesterday, it was on for about 30 min and today over 5 hours now.

[tangerine]

It's been on for hours now with it still blinking "Loading". Yesterday, it was on for about 30 min and today over 5 hours now.

Well, that is not normal. Your recorder is defective.
Is that a brand new recorder or used?

[Ade007]

It's brand new, just arrived yesterday from Crutchfeld. This is the first time I've bought a product thats defective. This gives me great concern.

[tangerine]

Then nothing else you can do than asking for a replacement unit from the seller.

[broadway]

For my unit, I've found that even when the unit is completely off - LED display totally dark - that if I turn off the power on the surge protector that the JVC is plugged into, that the LOADING message will start flashing.
It's like it senses change in the powerline - odd.

If after waiting a minute or two and the LOADING doesn't stop,
try pushing and holding in the power switch on the front of the unit for about 30 seconds. It *seems* to work on my unit.

[Ade007]

For my unit, I've found that even when the unit is completely off - LED display totally dark - that if I turn off the power on the surge protector that the JVC is plugged into, that the LOADING message will start flashing.
It's like it senses change in the powerline - odd.

If after waiting a minute or two and the LOADING doesn't stop,
try pushing and holding in the power switch on the front of the unit for about 30 seconds. It *seems* to work on my unit.

I've tried that. I went through that with the tech people @ Crutchfield, still same problem. It won't stop blinking "Loading", which makes doing anything else impossible.

[tangerine]

From the manual (if you have not tried yet)

Malfunction occurs on the unit.
Press "power" to turn off the unit, press and hold "power", then press "stop" for two seconds or more.

[Ade007]

From the manual (if you have not tried yet)

Malfunction occurs on the unit.
Press "power" to turn off the unit, press and hold "power", then press "stop" for two seconds or more.

Done that too. I now have to decide if I want Cruychfield to send me another JVC DVD recorder of choose another brand.

[JAB285]

From the manual (if you have not tried yet)

Malfunction occurs on the unit.
Press "power" to turn off the unit, press and hold "power", then press "stop" for two seconds or more.

Done that too. I now have to decide if I want Cruychfield to send me another JVC DVD recorder of choose another brand.

I don't know if this helps or not, but I've had my mh30 for over six weeks and I haven't had a problem with it. It's been a great performer and I recently had it on for 13 hours straight recording a Battlestar Galactica marathon. It recorded all 13 hours with no problems. I think you may have just got a bad one.

Just my two cents.

[Neuron]

I have my DR-MH30 for almost two months and unit has no problems whatsoever. So far so good. I hope this machine will not disappoint me in the future. At least for now I'm happy with.

[MiG-45]

trhouse,

sorry timeout was a bit longer then it suppose to be. Finaly I measured resistance between powersupply`s pins 1-3 (B5302) connector and 21-24 pins of didiboard connectors - D1.8V - they a re directly connected - so no ideas how the voltage drops (( But then again 1.92 is out from powersupply and 1.81 comes to DMN chip!

But I need to add some words - there was a strong reason for me to open cover and dismount DVD drive- after two weeks beeing off in power safe mode I tryed to switch on - got Wake up message and then, guess what ? Yeah! Loading start flashing endlessly. I tryed to switch off and on , unplugging from wall outlet - nothing helps - anyway I measure all voltages - and they was in normal. So I took a last chance - hardware reset - and it helps! Seems like leaving in powersave mode for a long time making unit stick in initilizing procedure - its completly software problem (in my case). Maybe firware update could help in this case. I thought leaving uit in powersave mode off state will cause DMN overheat (even I modified cover for better heat sinking)

[trhouse]

MiG-45,

How did you measure the D1.8V? Was the ground point the same in both measurements. Sometimes the loss is not in the + side but the ground return path. For example, if you measure the resistance from the metal box for the DMN to a ground on the power supply board, do you find anything?

It is not easy to determine if a problem is firmware or hardware without a logic analyzer. Since it is normal for the unit to show "loading" when first plugged in, it is possible that the circuit that tells the processor what state it is in is continuously telling the processor that the unit has just been plugged in. It does not hurt to update the firmware either way.

[MiG-45]

trhouse,

Both times I measured with the same ground - metal case. Well, I will measure if there is resistance between metal case and digital ground. But it seems to me that its the same gound, becuase metalic cover screwed to metal case and in some places soldered to digital board near the middle, and on the edges

[trhouse]

MiG-45,

If the DMN draws 1 A. on the D1.8V, the resistance must be around 0.1 ohm for a 0.1V drop. If the DMN draws less, like 0.5 A, the resistance would be about 0.2 ohm. You do not find anything like these numbers?

[MiG-45]

yes, there is 0.15 ohm, but I thught it could be resistance of wire itself. Because it is about 30 cm long

[trhouse]

That is a lot more than can be accounted for by 30 cm of ribbon cable. Here is the spec. of typical ribbon cable. The resistance is 67.5 ohm per 1,000 feet or 0.0675 ohm per foot which is about 30 cm.



P.S. I thought the measurement of D1.8V from the power supply was about +2.03V before. Now it has dropped to +1.92?

From May 1, 2005 post "yeah 2.03 is the exact voltage I measured from PQ5EV3 output!"

[danib666]

i recently purchased a few of the DR-M10S's at a local auction house, one of them had no remote so after testing it using the remote from one of the others i decided to keep it for myself. i then sold the others on ebay & used some of the money i got back to buy a new remote for my unit but on first use since i got the remote the bloody thing gives this loading error constantly!
i see the american users seem to have this quite well sorted now with JVC America offering the free repair but over here in the UK JVC are being no help at all and the only repair center they put me through to was next to useless
the service center i spoke to didn't even seem to know what the DR-M10 was let alone how to fix it

has anyone from the UK successfully got their unit fixed & where did they send it if so?

[MiG-45]

trhouse

Yeah, you right - I didn`t noticed that output voltage drop from 2.03 to 1.92 - will monitor this value for some days! Now its 1.99v it flows....

[trhouse]

MiG-45,

I did some analysis of how much variation should be expected with this circuit with the PQ5EV3 and resistors R5319, 5320 determining D1.8V.

The variation of the reference voltage is +/- 1 mV over a temperature range of 0-40 degrees C. The drift of the resistors is +/- 50 ppm/degree C. The output voltage change due to load variation is a maximum of 0.5% for the PQ5EV3.

Taking all these items into consideration, the output voltage should not change by more than about +/-1% or +/-20 mV. A change from 2.03 to 1.92 is 110 mV. Something is not right.

Can you monitor both pin 2 and 4 of PQ5EV3 ? Pin 2 is D1.8V. Pin 4 should be about +1.24V. If pin 2 changes by 110 mV and 4 does not change, then either R5319 or R5320 is bad. If pin 2 changes by 110 mV and pin 4 changes by 67 mV then the PQEV3 is bad.

What happens at the DMN8652 end when the PQ5EV3 output changes? That is if the PQ5EV3 output is +1.92V and the DMN end is +1.81, does the DMN end go to +1.88 V when the PQ5EV3 is at +1.99 V?

[emlsnws]

Hi,
Still reading this forum on and off.

danib666,
I have a DR-MV1S bought from ebay (UK) not a M10, so not from yourself (Scary thought, your customers pursue you in tech help groups). JVC support has been one sentence "refer to your dealer" so I thought I'd look at it myself and maybe learn something.

I used to see regular restarts followed by 'loading' after a recording (from tv or dub) had been in progress for 0.5-2 hours. On this thread (see posts throughout May 2005) we diagnosed a lot of temperature related issues.

Anyway my advice is that the MV1S performs much better when 3 things are done:

Good Media - I'm now using RiDisc 2X RW's (which are made by TDK) with no problems. The first media I laid my hands on after getting the unit was PCWorld (Optodisc) which just didn't do it. I had disc errors with them too.

Power Save - Set to on. Though with enough changes, it should be possible to leave the unit on 24/7 without overheating. I might be at that point now

Cool Internals - I've added extra ventilation slots in the case above the psu & along the right hand side, and removed internal obstructions to airflow (internal bracketry had extraneous metal). I opened up the 'digital can' and adjusted the can so that it made thermal contact (and added grease to) to the big chip inside. Thus heat could leave the device easier and be radiated-off by the can, which was the original intent, we thought.

And, together with the guys on this forum I made some circuit changes - I lowered a digital supply voltage from 2V to 1.77V to reduce heat, and beefed-up a few other resistors to aid heat dissipation. Also an additional heatsink on the switchmode i.c. to lower temperature when the unit is in standby (when the fan does not run). These changes would probably not be possible for anyone not able in electronics.

The bad news is that all the mods might not be required (but I wanted to use the machine, not work out the minimal set of changes).
Now the machine is working reliably, and the record/playback quality is very good, I'm impressed. Dare I say, it was worth it.

[MiG-45]

Just done a few tests - tryed to operate without metal cover on digiboard - after 14 hours of working - no mater on or off (if off , ofcaurse not in powersave) - tons of green lines , hangs and restars with infinit loading cycles - only unplugging helps. Turning unit in powersave mode doesnt` help much - 8 times out of 10 after "Wakeup" message going Loading and it flashing endless - no responce to any buttons - nor from remote neither from front panel - unit hangs. Now add extra copper plate on metalic cover of digibiard - 48 hours working ok.

[lordsmurf]

It's nice to see some mods are able to fix these flaws. Somebody should provide repair services like arizonasteve has done for Apex and Cyberhome equipment.

A few of them don't even sound all that difficult.

[trhouse]

MiG-45,

Removing the digiboard cover removes the heatsinking from the DMN8652 does it not?

I am more worried about the wandering D1.8V. If it goes in the wrong direction, you know what will happen to the DMN8652? It really should not be allowed to exceed +1.89V.

[MiG-45]

trhouse,

yep. You right in other words I just removed heatsink from DMN to see how heating affect the situation.
I tryed to measure (again) 1.8V output from PS in different circumstancies - opening and closing drive`s tray, switching on and off unit etc. And after all it seems that this voltage is pritty stable - 1.99 sometimes 1.98V. So only teperature playing some role.

[trhouse]

Mig-45,

You took some risk running without heatsinking. What is the D1.8V at the DMN8652 end now with +1.99V at the PQ5EV3? A higher than spec. voltage causes increased heating too. Sounds like your test proved the DMN is the source of these issues. Why not do like enlsnws and add more heatsinking to the DMN or lower that voltage a little?