JVC DR-M10 Loading and Repair Question

[Springerspaniel]

Thanks Springerspaniel. I was posing a question as you were answering.

Alan

No problem.. let me know if they're as helpful with you as they were with me!!!

[emlsnws]

Hi again,

Springerspaniel, did you post a link to your pictures that I have missed?

I have been busy moving house so have had little time to post. Will post an update when there is more news (new environment for MV1 may change performance!)

[Bix]

Got my unit back from service for the 2nd time and...LOADING again. Worked fine for 2 recordings then bleh.

Repair order has under Service Performed:
ELECTRICAL PART
Reset
Rewriting Program

Under Parts:
Part Number: LPA10236-01E
Description: DIGI.PWB ASSY

So what is the deal? Did they replace the resistors this time (I specifically asked them to in an enclosed letter)? If not, WHY? What should I do now (since they're closed until Monday)? I sent an email to service that said this:

"I''m still, after sending my unit in for service twice, having the warning mode/loading error when I try to record. Were my resistors replaced as requested (the repair order indicates "ELECTRICAL PART" under "Service Performed")? If not, why? If possible, could I have some sort of working unit, either this model or a newer one? Thanks!"

HEEEELLLLPPP!

[trhouse]

That is disappointing. It sounds like they swapped out your media processor board and updated the firmware. The LPA10236-0E is the p/n for the entire digital board. The manual from MiG-45 shows it as -0C so this is a newer version. The resistors we have been discussing are in the power supply. Let us know if you want our help or if you want to try JVC some more.

[Bix]

That is disappointing. It sounds like they swapped out your media processor board and updated the firmware. The LPA10236-0E is the p/n for the entire digital board. The manual from MiG-45 shows it as -0C so this is a newer version. The resistors we have been discussing are in the power supply. Let us know if you want our help or if you want to try JVC some more.

Thanks for the info.

I'm gonna try JVC some more, but since I can't talk to them until Monday, I'd love any advice you have!

[8t88]

I returned my DR-M1 unit for the 3 time this year, and now they are replacing the Power source, drive and motherboard! It looks like i'
m getting a whole new machine..........

[trhouse]

Bix,

I reread your earlier posts. I see your prefer not to open the unit so little can be done right now. You had a friend who sent his in and it had carbon composition resistors replaced. Your unit, May 2004, is about the right vintage to have that problem. Did your friend send it in to the same service center or a different one?

8t88,

What problem were you experiencing that lead to so many part replacements? If it was the loading issue, can you share with us the manufacture date? It is on the back with the s/n. We are trying to compile a list of the months were the problem was prevalent.

[Bix]

Bix,

I reread your earlier posts. I see your prefer not to open the unit so little can be done right now. You had a friend who sent his in and it had carbon composition resistors replaced. Your unit, May 2004, is about the right vintage to have that problem. Did your friend send it in to the same service center or a different one?

Depending on what the fix is, I may be willing to open it. What would be needed?

[MiG-45]

Well, well..... replacing whole board is an easer solution! But we lose a chance to find what part is exactly fault! (

[trhouse]

Bix,

Check out my post of May 19, 2005 at 18:53 on this thread. It explains my suspicions about which resistors are the cause of this problem.

MiG-45,

I have reread your posts about this issue including that the problem occurs playing dvd's including commercial ones, just passing a signal through the M10, and that the green lines can be recorded. I had another look at the DMN8652 as well. I noticed that it is capable of component output, composite output, and S video output. That made me wonder if you find the green lines on all those outputs?

I also have a suggestion about the +1.86V you are measuring at the DMN8652. Try this. Connect your ohmmeter from the point where you measured the +2.03V to the point where you measured +1.86V ( with all power off and unplugged for safety ). What resistance do you find? Then wiggle all the connectors you can find between these points and see if it changes.

[Bix]

Well...that's something I don't think I can do.

I'll take note of the part number, though.

[MiG-45]

trhouse,
regarding ways of measuring - I don`t think its a good idea because it will let us guess. Think its better for me finally disassemble and look at the botom of main board.
As for green lines - I also though about this - and check them on other outputs also - they exist even when I switching progressive scan. So they don`t depend on output mode.

[trhouse]

MiG-45,

I went back to your earlier posting of the images from the M10 with the lines. I was noticing that in one image, there appears to be a repeated pattern in the lines at the top of the image. I was examining this when I realized that this image had a huge number of macroblocks. It also appears that these lines some which are green, others are magenta, and a few are almost black appear to start and end on a macroblock. Do you notice in the two images that have little motion of the mountain and sky, the one with few lines has few macroblocks and the one with many lines has many macroblocks? Compare that image to the one with ball players which appears to be an action scene. The action scene has very few lines and very few macroblocks. If the lines and macroblocks are related they may produced by the same mechanism.

The images are reproduced here,

[MiG-45]

Well, I noticed but as I wrote before green lines appers not instantly in one day - they slowly start appering from 4th day of working , then day by day their number grows and if at first the splashing sometimes you may even noticed them, then after a few days since they begin to show, their number reachs huge aamout - this fact I recordedto DVD and post frames here. Its about the final stage - if continue using then picture collapsing to macroblocks, freezing frames and then goes reset of unit, after reset it works few mins and then again reset etc. Also if when you just whatching TV though DVD recorders tuner, they might not affects picture too much, but when you start working with DVD drive, calling setup functions and even open/close tray = it all cause them heavely covering screen! That why I though that they somehow depends on current requested by unit. And one more - few days ago - it happens only once - I goes to setup screen and turn on powersave mode when I quiting setup - picture was covered by diferent collerefull lines after few seconds everything becomes fine. I call back setup and turn powersave mde off - same thing happens. Then I tryed to change other parameters of setup, but they don`t bring such effect - everything works fine until I touch powersave on/off. I turn unit off (powersave mode ON) and switch it back - everything is ok now. But now Im thinking that maybe reason of this digital noise (let call green lines with it real name) maybe cause by system controller - I`m checking schematic to find out how power mode switching - if there any triggers or transistor keys.

[trhouse]

MiG-45,

I will think more about your new comments. I was looking at the schematic and the TV tuner output looks like it is converted from composite to S-video, then digitized by the JSP chip before it is sent to the DMN8652. If the lines are related to the macroblocks then it must be the DMN8652 creating them since macroblocks appear as part of the encoding process.

It is possible that the process of digitizing the S-video signal could be bad, but if this were so, the lines would be random. Since they start and stop on a macroblock means the JSP digitizing is probably not the problem. This could still be a voltage or heat problem but it seems like by examining your captures and comments we can narrow it down to only a few components.

P.S. I hope it is not the DMN8652 as well.

[MiG-45]

More looks like something affects DMN`s normal work. If it is safe to say that overheating is not a problem anymore (since temp of DMN is now about 50C) , then suspections now are back on powersupply.

[emlsnws]

My DRM-V1S has now been moved to another house, and the latest news is as follows:
- previously thought good media, ie. I had recorded 4 hours of VHS dub on, erased & subsequently failed during recording TV. "Loading" was seen.
- DVD-RAM recordings continue to occur flawlessly. I have yet to see a "Loading" when DVD-RAM is in use.

I am going to buy some more media, still -RW but a different brand to the -RW I had been using (will edit this post later to include media ID code when I find it out). The media concerned did not give good results whether used in "Video" mode, my first choice, or VR mode which I later tried. Using -R has turned out to be an expensive education, too.

Perhaps if I try enough media I may find a reliable one, or give up and get a DVD-RAM drive for the PC! I read here I think that the -RAM disc management is different/better which may explain the lack of "Loading" seen to date when using it.

[8t88]

Bix,

I reread your earlier posts. I see your prefer not to open the unit so little can be done right now. You had a friend who sent his in and it had carbon composition resistors replaced. Your unit, May 2004, is about the right vintage to have that problem. Did your friend send it in to the same service center or a different one?

8t88,

What problem were you experiencing that lead to so many part replacements? If it was the loading issue, can you share with us the manufacture date? It is on the back with the s/n. We are trying to compile a list of the months were the problem was prevalent.

I had the 'loading' message for over a year now on my machine, everytime when i took it back the message stays away fot some weeks/months..... But then it came back again. So after almost a year of troubles a friend of mine said give that machine to me i will take it to JVC as he know the 'Head Service Department'. That man phoned me back with the message that they will fix the machine 'no matter what.....' It was already out of warranty some months.

They replaced my drive, powersource and part of the print..... It's working perfect now!!!!

Machine is a PAL DR-M1 bought round december 2004 i'm sorry no serial as i write this at work..............

[MiG-45]

8t88

DR-M1 or DR-M10 ?

[trhouse]

8t88,

The manufacturer date on most units is on the serial number label but it may not be true for PAL units. Thanks for sharing your experience. It might have cost JVC less to give you a new unit!

MiG-45,

8t88 has the M1.

enlsnws,

I have only a few -rw's but the TDK's have not failed me. The media code from DVDInfoPro is TDK502sakuM3.

[emlsnws]

I got some new RiDisc purple top 2X DVD-RW's by mail order, media code (Strangely enough) is TDK502sakuM3 and so far they have been flawless. Sample size so far is 3 discs, I have recorded the full discs' worth and then erase, re-record no problem as yet. I hope it continues! I have 10 discs to use.

Ambient temperatures have been warm again in the UK recently and the temperature sensor still attached to the digital can reads ~35oC. Room temp is about 25oC today.

The previous discs (which as I found in this thread, a little prone to unreliability) are OPTODISCW002.

[MiG-45]

Here in Russia JVC start DR-M100 model to sale! Its absolutly similar to DR-M10 just have greater firmware and a bit change front panel. I suppose its also have fixed old issues.

[trhouse]

emlsnws,

That is a coincidence. I have had good luck with that media.

MiG-45,

There has been a thread running about the M100 here,

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=270003

Sounds like most the issues of the past are gone and it can playback DVD+R DL (with DVD-ROM booktype).

[MiG-45]

trhouse
Dr-M10 also can playback DVD+R Dual layer )

[trhouse]

MiG-45,

It must be a well kept secret. Here is an excerpt from the operating manual. They do not even admit it can play a +R disk let alone DL.



Have you tried it yourself?

[MiG-45]

Sure! ) Also about all official DVD releases comes on Dual layer DVD ( 9,4 Gb). So all DVD players and recorders can play this format. Check any commercial DVD (with movies) on your computer - measure it size - about 9 Gb. Its not a secret - its the only way to achive best video quality

[trhouse]

You are right except perhaps about the size,

"Every DVD reader available is capable of the dual layer read operation. Applying the exact same principle to the write mode has only been a matter of perfecting consumer media and simple modifications on the pickup/laser. In fact, those who watch our Optical Storage news closely already know that Pioneer previously demonstrated their DVR-106 capable of burning dual layer discs during CES 2004 (January). The drive only burned at 2X, but considering the DVD-R DL disc was burned using only a modified firmware, the future of existing DVDRW devices looks slightly promising. Most likely vendors will choose not to release firmware that would enable DL burns, but it is nice to know there is a slim chance they might.

The first thing everyone should know is that DVDR-9 (as well as DVD-9) are not capable of 9GB of storage. Reading some of the questions in our forums, it became evident that this is one of the largest preconceptions about the technology. Both DVDR-9 and DVD-9 are only capable of 8.5GB of storage. Any more would render them incompatible with the DVD standard. Tri Layer drives would not be compatible with the standard either, so do not anticipate seeing DVDR-14 in the future either. For more storage, we will have to look toward BluRay and HD-DVD. "

[edit] Are you thinking about giving up on the M10 lines problem?

[KeepItSimple]

I just got a brand new DR-M10 (great deal on Ebay) that was manufactured May 2004 Made In Japan. Is this one that might show a loading error? I plan on enabling Power Save mode to avoid the problem (as suggested) but I'd still like to know if this is one of those . I understand that if you take it to a JVC center they will fix it. Is there one near Sacramento, CA or would I have to ship it somewhere? Thanks!

oh btw: The M10 has 3 sets of A/V inputs (2 in the back and 1 in the front). I was looking at the back of an M100 at Fry's and I'm pretty sure it only has one set of inputs on the back. What a gyp.

[trhouse]

Yes, April and May seem to be the most common months for the "loading" problem to occur. The good news is that JVC will repair it even out of warranty. I would suggest not avoiding the problem but let it occur and have it serviced as soon as possible. I doubt JVC will continue the free program indefinitely especially now that the replacement model is out. After that it is $100/hour for service.

[KeepItSimple]

I would suggest not avoiding the problem but let it occur and have it serviced as soon as possible.

Okay how do I do I do that? And how I enable that power save mode? I can't find anything about it in the manual or by poking thru the menus on the unit.