Transferring video from laptop Firewire to DVD Recorder

[genie_dvd]

Hi all,
I have noticed posts on this topic before, but I am stuck at the most basic of questions which I cannot find an answer for.


I want to send a signal out from my Firewire port on my laptop, to the DV-in on my Pioneer 3100 standalone DVD recorder.


Do I need to use any special software or configure my Firewire port somehow to allow the Pioneer 3100 to see what is displayed on my laptop screen, or to see a video file playing? Or am I looking at the wrong thing totally ?


Thanks

[Frobozz]

Mine is a Pioneer DVR-510H-S and I don't know how it is different from your 3100. This post may apply to your question:
https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1188502#1188502

[edDV]

First you need to tell us how you are capturing your desktop screen to DV firewire?

[johnxl1s]

buy a sharp dvd recorder, i know it works.

[johnxl1s]

First you need to tell us how you are capturing your desktop screen to DV firewire?

i do not undrestand what you mean by this , is he not capturing via firewire as he has stated?
you have me confused-!

[Frobozz]

First you need to tell us how you are capturing your desktop screen to DV firewire?

i do not undrestand what you mean by this , is he not capturing via firewire as he has stated?
you have me confused-!

I understand the question. The original post asks how to capture the image on the laptop screen, or whatever is playing on the screen, to the Pioneer DVR. One needs to be using an application that prints to video - typically, a video editing application - in order to send any video through the Firewire connection. So what method is being used here to export via Firewire?

[ZippyP.]

FWIW - Some DVD recorders will only record from the firewire port if a camcorder is hooked up, some (like Panasonic) don't care and will record anything. Sounds like Frobozz has a bit of a work around.

[johnxl1s]

some (like Panasonic) don't care and will record anything.

well i have tryed "PANASONICS" and they will not capture via the mac (final cut express) firewire, as i have posted previously, i know the sharp will

[johnxl1s]

So what "method" is being used here to export via Firewire?

you did not use the word "METHOD" in your first post, that is why i said firewire, and of course he would need an editing package.

[genie_dvd]

Frobozz, your DVR-510-H is the next model up from mine, mine would be the 310 I think. 3100 is just the European model number for it.

What I'm gathering is that I need some sort of video editing software, to do this trick?

I can't just use a media player like Windows Media Player to transfer via Firewire, kind of like as if I was sending the signal from laptop to Pioneer via S-video ?

I noticed in your attached post Frobozz you mentioned iMovie -

Can anyone else suggest any other software or a "method" as you call it that might allow me to export the video from my laptop, via firewire, to the Pioneer ?

[edDV]

I just came on.

Yes, you need an application to drive the firewire (IEEE-1394) port.

I wish Windows Media Player would do it but it doesn't. It can't even keep up with playing a DV stream deinterlaced. A computer, including laptops, don't have hardware DV stream encoders. Maybe I should slow down.

The pioneer DVD recorder expects to see a fully encoded realtime DV stream on its firewire input. The computer has no way to realtime gererate such a stream (e.g. like a S-video out).

You need an application like Windows Movie Maker 2 or another DV video editing program* to import DV material from external devices like a camcorder, or to generate a DV-AVI file (non-realtime encode) on the disk that can then be streamed through the IEEE-1394 port to the DVDR recorder in realtime. In Movie Maker 2 this streaming function is called "send to DV camera" in the "Finish Movie" menu.

The DVDR recorder only accepts realtime DV streams, its not like a file copy.

* Your choice of editing program should include DV format editing for doing what we are talking about above, plus the ability to edit the MPeg2 DVDRs that your DVR will generate. There are many good choices for DV editing. MPeg2 editors that work directly with Video_TS folders with AC-3 audio are in a primative state right now and none that I have seen are really ready for prime time. Programs like ULead Video Studio 8 try to do it but need help and an upgrade or two. Nero 6.6 Ultra just upgraded, I haven't got to it yet to see if it works.

There are many techie tools available to the left to solve the problem. Those of you buying these recorders are more motived than I to evaluate these products for DVDR editing. I will read with interest.

[genie_dvd]

Okay edDV, I am successful up to a point.

Fired up Windows Movie Maker 2, used a test movie, and got to the point where I "send to DV camera".

Connected my Firewire cable between laptop and Pioneer, and laptop detected a DV device...

But have got stuck at a point and can't progress any further... Pioneer is waiting with a blank disc in the tray...

But Windows Movie Maker is complaining saying "You do not have a DV Tape in your Camera. Please insert a tape then press Next"

(Note: Next is ghosted out, unless I insert a tape as it says)

I have ejected and re-inserted the blank disc, cycled through the channels on the Pioneer, but nothing - I can't get past this Insert a DV tape message...

any ideas?

[edDV]

I would guess Pioneer is doing a poor job emulating a Sony DV camcorder.

I would first call Pioneer support. Ask how DV (I-Link, IEEE-1394) is supposed to work?

Next ask Microsoft if they (MM2) support DVR recorders?
I bet 99% they say no.

[genie_dvd]

Well is there any other software then I could use instead of Windows Movie Maker 2?

Frobuzz has a Pioneer like me, if you follow his post:
https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1188502#1188502

he is using iMovie and it is working for him...

unfortunately i am not using an Apple laptop so am guessing iMovie is out of the question for me...

so any other software suggestions ?

[Frobozz]

Maybe you should do the opposite of my advice. With iMovie I had to simply press record with DV set as the Pioneer's input just as I started exporting the movie. But maybe with the Windows Movie Maker software you need to use the DV Record feature that's in the Pioneer's Disc Setup menu. That's how the Pioneer interacts with camcorders so maybe that's how it can fool the software into believing a tape is loaded.

[edDV]

Frobozz has a very good point. WMM2, ULead video studio 8 and others did not anticipate the arrival of these DVR's. Remember the famous Sony PR guy comment in response to the question about computer editing from a DVD camcorder.

Paraphrase "our market research shows that 96% of our camcorder customers have no interest in computer editing" therefore the 4% should have known better.

That said, I run into simliar problems sometimes with my Canopus ADVC. Some software expects a timecode feedback that a tape has stopped before it stops reccording. The Canopus keeps running pseudo timecode and sometimes needs to be physically switched off to satisfy the record driver.

Software driver writers need to completely emulate a camcorder for these things to work 100%.

[genie_dvd]

ok Frobuzz tried that idea, and still no luck... the Pioneer just says "No DV Camcorder connected"

Either some sort of patch would be nice to skip the asking of the tape section, or some sort of driver for Windows XP that makes it think a Pioneer is 100% a camcorder
or I'm going to have to use another program I think.

Is Ulead Video Studio 8 as mentioned any good for this?

How about Adobe Premiere - is it designed for this?

I could maybe look for demos and give them a go if they'd be suitable

I'm guessing also, iMovie is not available for Windows platforms ?

[Frobozz]

I'm guessing also, iMovie is not available for Windows platforms ?

No, but it is bundled free with the new Mac Mini for just $499. Come and join the other side.

[vhelp]

Hi all

I truely believe that your problem w/ not getting DV to pass through
to your DVD Recorder unit is due to a *driver* issue. This is one
of the most common problems w/ users here, when they are transfering
their DV *back* to their DV cams.

Questions:

* I didn't read anything about this, but..

* What is your medium source ??
.
I mean, are you using a DV cam, and reading in the video source by
playing a miniDV tape, or bay passthrough ??
.
So, when you see your video play on your screen, what you ment (in
your earlier post) "..screen.." you ment by saying, "..yada yads..,
send video out to my pc, yada yada.." anyways. At first, I think
even I thought you were trying to capture your PC screen, and then
trying to send this out to DVD Recorder. But you are not ? Anyways.


* Is the video coming from your DV Cam (or ther DV device) ??

* But, if its coming from your DV cam, then why not just feed the dv
.. cam to your DVD Recorder ??

But even if *this* does not work, then its just a simple matter of
a driver install issue. And you have to narrow down the cause from
there. I don't know anything about this area of "problem-solving"
because I do not have XP on my machine here, and I very rarely use it
when I do (at work) xcept for meby just typing an email. Anyways.
My OS is win98 only. And, I use firewire on this setup w/ no issues.

I *was* thinking about an inexpansive DVD Recorder from Wal-Mart ($149
regular price, e-cheapo), or a K-Mart ($179 on special) but I'm not sure
how the quality will hold up with it, specially if its VHS source, and
I don't know what the highest bitrate these units go to. But that's
about the only thing holding me back at the moment.. minus a HD unit.

Cheers,
-vhelp 3037

[bobcat56458]

Here is a post I made a while back about how I got my ilo DVDR04 to record from my computer's firewire output to the ilo's firewire input.

"I tried exporting a DV video file from my computer to the ilo DVDR04 and it would not work. So I tried a work around, what I did was connect my Panasonic camcorder to one of the 3 firewire ports on my computer, and connected the ilo's firewire port to the second firewire port on my computer. I did this using two 4 to 6 pin firewire cables. On the computer I ran the freeware "WinDV" program, and loaded up a DV video file into the "Source file:" under the "Recording to DV device" tab. I then put the camcorder in the VCR mode with no tape loaded in the unit. I then followed the instructions in the ilo manual on how to record DV from a camcorder. Then I pressed the "Record" button twice in WinDV and I was now able to export the DV file from the computer to the ilo recorder! It seems you have to trick the ilo recorder into thinking it is getting the DV video stream from a camcorder, when it is actually getting it from a computer. It appears the ilo recorder cannot see the "Microsoft DV Camera and VCR" as a DV device, but using this work around it can. This method works fine on my Win98SE computer, but I have to do an additional step with my Windows XP computer. With XP I also have to have a cable connected to the composite A\V input\output on the camcorder, (it does have a unrelated video\audio signal going into that analog input). Now this analog connection is not actually being used, but for some reason just having it connected allows the XP computer the ability to send DV to the standalone DVD recorder when used with the connections above."

[edDV]

ok Frobuzz tried that idea, and still no luck... the Pioneer just says "No DV Camcorder connected"

Either some sort of patch would be nice to skip the asking of the tape section, or some sort of driver for Windows XP that makes it think a Pioneer is 100% a camcorder
or I'm going to have to use another program I think.

Is Ulead Video Studio 8 as mentioned any good for this?

How about Adobe Premiere - is it designed for this?

I could maybe look for demos and give them a go if they'd be suitable

I'm guessing also, iMovie is not available for Windows platforms ?

Unless anyone has tried any of that software with that particular DVR, they couldn't tell you if it will work. I bet the Pioneer driver has only been tested with DV camcorders. My advice is to call Pioneer and ask for their advice before you try trial and error with other apps. Someone should at least notify them of the problem.

If you can borrow a MiniDV or Digital8 camcorder, you could verify that the Pioneer port is otherwise working.

[genie_dvd]

edDV I dont think I will call Pioneer, as it clearly states is the manual that the port is meant only for connecting DV Camcorders.

However, i have heard that "unofficially" it can be done.

I have already tried connecting a DV camcorder to it, it works fine.

What I could do is hook up the laptop to DV camcorder, then camcorder to Pioneer every time i wanted to do this (so DV camcorder would just become a passthrough) - but it just seems like too much hassle doing that all the time - theres bound to be an easier way.

[edDV]

I think Frobozz discovered the most likely workaround in the parallel thread referenced above. He said

"When I connect my G4 iBook to the Pioneer DVR via Firewire, I cannot use the Pioneer's special DV menu to receive what iMovie refers to as the exported video. The Pioneer only seems to work with DV camcorders through that path.

However, if I choose DV as my input (the Pioneer cycles between tuner, line 1, line 2 and DV as the input choices) then the recorder will see and record the export from iMovie. But there still is one more glitch. The Pioneer needs to see a signal being received before it lets me press Record so I lose a few frames before the recording begins. Also, if iMovie doesn't see the Pioneer I need to quit iMovie and relaunch the application for it to be seen."

Try that. The Pioneer doesn't care if the DV stream is coming from a Mac or a PC. You just need a way to play your DV stream. If Windows Movie Maker is still stuck waiting for a tape, try another DV playback program.

ULead has a free demo of Video Studio 8. I know that program will play the DV timeline out the IEEE-1394 port to my Canopus ADVC-100 with no camcorder tape dialog. The other programs mentioned are rather expensive.

[pluche]

I have a G4 1.25 DP and I regularly record TV programs (via Datavideo analog/digital converter) - then I edit commercials out and send the movie via firewire using the print to video command in FCP to my DVD recorder (a JVC) - works great and good quality

[edDV]

I have a G4 1.25 DP and I regularly record TV programs (via Datavideo analog/digital converter) - then I edit commercials out and send the movie via firewire using the print to video command in FCP to my DVD recorder (a JVC) - works great and good quality

Yeah FCP will do it.
On the PC side all the serious editors will play DV out to IEEE-1394 as well including these that I have.
Adobe Premiere 6.5 and Pro
Vegas 5
Ulead Video Studio 8

The consumer programs seem to be lacking straight DV playout to IEEE-1394. Some will only record DV to a camcorder and force use of machine control dialog. These programs see the non-camcorder device (DVR or transcoder) as a camcorder without a tape loaded and refuse to play the DV Stream.
Windows Movie Maker 2
NeroVision2

I just got Pinnacle Studio 8.12 to work but it insisted on resaving the timeline to a new DV-AVI file before it would play DV out even if there were no edits in the import DV-AVI file. At least it can be made to export. The programs above play the file out without requiring the creation of a new file.

I need to upgrade my Nero 6 Ultra to 6.6 and will then try NeroVision 3.

[genie_dvd]

I have a friend who has Ulead Video Studio 8, so got some info from him about it...

He said he is 100% certain from his own usage that he cannot export to a DV device without first having to convert the source material to DV-AVI format, which he says is both time consuming and takes up a lot of space for even a small file.

Therefore, are there any programs that will export to my Pioneer without having to convert the file(s) first to DV-AVI format?

e.g. Adobe Premiere Pro or Vegas 5 ?

And what is this FCP program (i.e. its full title?) Will it do what I'm after?

[edDV]

No, the DV port is for DV format. You would use this port for high quality component encoding thus avoiding NTSC/PAL compromises.

The high end programs output resolution reduced previews on the DV output but nothing that you would want to record.

FCP = Final Cut Pro, the higher end editing program on the Mac $999. Final cut Express is a cut down version for $299. These also work primarily in DV format.

[Yvon]

Hi all,
I have noticed posts on this topic before, but I am stuck at the most basic of questions which I cannot find an answer for.


I want to send a signal out from my Firewire port on my laptop, to the DV-in on my Pioneer 3100 standalone DVD recorder.


Do I need to use any special software or configure my Firewire port somehow to allow the Pioneer 3100 to see what is displayed on my laptop screen, or to see a video file playing? Or am I looking at the wrong thing totally ?
Thanks

Aren't you forgetting to put your Pioneer to the DV input mode?
I use a iMac and everything that goes out to my Sharp DVD recorder via the Firewire is from the iMovie editing software. The DVD recorder input must be in the DV mode.

Yvon

[Yvon]

I think Frobozz discovered the most likely workaround in the parallel thread referenced above. He said

"........... But there still is one more glitch. The Pioneer needs to see a signal being received before it lets me press Record so I lose a few frames before the recording begins............

I add a few seconds of black video and even a fade in at the beginning so that I do not loose frames of video.

Yvon

[genie_dvd]

Ok, so it has been established that FCP is Final Cut Pro for the Mac.

Been doing some searching and have found a shareware version for download - even though this is made by Apple can it run on the Windows platform?

And will this shareware version allow me to export to a DV device ?


Another thing is - will FCP (either shareware or full product for Windows) allow me to export via Firewire without first having to convert the file(s) to DV-AVI?



I guess it just begars for me to repeat my own question:

Are there any programs that will export video via Firewire to my Pioneer without having to convert the file(s) to DV-AVI format?

Will Adobe Premiere Pro or Vegas 5 allow me to do what I want?


I thought edDV when you'd mentioned that list of programs that any of those would do it without first having to encode to DV-AVI, but Ulead so far is a definite no no.