23.976 fps - PAL or NTSC?

[Dr.Rock]

I was given an AVI file which I want to burn onto DVD to watch on my TV. I've been doing this sort of thing many times now, TMPEnc to convert from AVI to DVD-MPG, selecting either PAL or NTSC depending on the frame-rate of the original AVI (25 fps for 29 fps). I always keep the PAL/NTSC format of the final DVD to be the same as the original AVI, to avoid jerky movement on playback.

However, this particular Avi is 23.976 fps. Is this equivalent to PAL or NTSC? Which of the two standards (PAL or NTSC) should I convert it to in order to ensure no jerky movement, or does either work just as fine as each other?

Thanks.

[SLK001]

It is progressive NTSC. You need to apply a pulldown, then you can load it into any authoring program.

[alsyed]

23.976 fps is the easiest way for avi's for any part of the world. I actually prefer this frame rate.

going to ntsc is only a matter of pulldown (lossless), and going to pal for it, is just speeding up playback by approximately 4%. (changing the frame rate to 25fps and speeding the audio up to).

And since most avi's are encoded in a computer aspect ratio, its easy to resize into dvd compliant video sizes to.

So the answer is, you can encode to either system, although ntsc will be quicker because you won't have to change the audio.

[adam]

23.976fps is equivalent to NTSC. This is actually the framerate that most NTSC DVDs are stored at. When you encode at this framerate you have to enable the pulldown flags. This instructs the decoder to telecine the film to 29.97fps in real time as the movie plays. Some encoders allow you to set the flags during encoding (CCE, TMPGenc) otherwise you can use pulldown.exe to add the flags to the video stream after encoding. Either way, you'd be encoding to 23.976fps.

Chances are you can go either way on this and your hardware will play both equally well. Generally I'd suggest converting to whatever format your region uses, in this case PAL. But there are a few factors to take into consideration.

Load your avi into Virtualdub and hit file/file information. What type of audio do you have? If its AC3 then it would probably be best to encode to NTSC (23.976fps with the pulldown flags) because then you don't have to touch the audio. If the audio is anything other than AC3, I'd go with PAL.

If you encode properly there is no reason why you'd get jerky playback, but you will have to process your audio and video separately to maintain sync.

Let me know what video encoder you are using and whether you have AC3 audio or not.

[Dr.Rock]

The audio of the AVI source file is not AC3. When I want to do is load it into TMPGEnc and convert th file to either of the two DVD formats (PAL or NTSC) with minimal procedure and with no frame-losses, jerkiness, etc. It's just a matter of which of the two to decide. If there's no difference in results, I'll go for PAL. If 23fps -> 29fps gives better results, I'll go for that, because my DVD-Player and TV are multi-system anyway.

Is the 3:2 pulldown option in TMPGEnc only applicable if I'm converting to NTSC, or can it also be used if I'm producing a PAL MPEG-2 file for DVD?

Thanks.

[alsyed]

well go for ntsc, it will be the less work. But, you might need to make your audio ac3 of pcm, because the dvd spec for ntsc states that there should be at least one ac3 or pcm audio track.

in any case, most avi files of this nature are in 1:1 computer aspect ratio, which means you will have to resize to dvd compliant size.

besweet is the only free ac3 encoder out there, but its files i believe are not totally compliant like the ones you will get out of licensed encoder.

So, if you have to go to pal, then besweet will be your friend, as you can just open the avi in besweet, and click the template 23.976->25fps, and set your output to mp2.

add your resize filters within virtual dub to the video file. then change the frame rate (not convert) to 25fps.

next, you frame serve from virtual dub the video part of the avi to your favourite mpeg encoder.

Now you can load these 2 files output "mpv or m2v" and "mp2" or "ac3" to your dvd author program and do as you need to.

[Dr.Rock]

Thanks for hte reply.

So just to clarify: the 3:2 pulldown option in TMPGEnc is only applicable if I'm saving the AVI as NTSC?

> then change the frame rate (not convert) to 25fps.

What's the difference between "changing" framerate and "converting" the framerate?

Thanks.

[alsyed]

because of the nature of tv sets, the only frame rate covered by the spec's are 29.97 for ntsc, and 25 for pal. However, for ntsc, you can encode files at 29.97, or keep the film rate of 23.976, but the pulldown will make the file appear 29.97 (in very simple terms).

changing frame rate: in effect changing the speed, keeping the same number of frames throughout, but playing at different frame rate.

converting frame rate: keeps the same duration, but adds/removes frames as needed.

the correct way to convert 23.976 to pal is to change the frame rate 25fps, and speed up the audio to match. The human ear doesn't really pick up the 4% speed up difference so as long as the pitch is the same.

[Dr.Rock]

When using TMPGEnc to create an NTSC 23.976 fps avi into a NTSC DVD MPEG-Format, where is this 3:2 pulldown? Because the resultant MPEG-2 I'm creating is quite jerky during fast movements and camera pans. I found two options in the softeware's "Settings" section, so which one do I use?

Under the Settings "Video" tabe, the 'Encode Mode' setting includes an "Inverse 3:2 pulldown" setting. And under the advance tab, there is a "3:2 pulldown" checkbox.

And should the Encode Mode be set to Interlaced, Non-Interlaced, or doesn't it matter?

Thanks.

[johns0]

besweet is the only free ac3 encoder out there, but its files i believe are not totally compliant like the ones you will get out of licensed encoder.

Ffmpeggui is another free ac3 encoder which is better than besweet for ac3.

[Abond]

besweet is the only free ac3 encoder out there, but its files i believe are not totally compliant like the ones you will get out of licensed encoder.

Ffmpeggui is another free ac3 encoder which is better than besweet for ac3.

Looking at the besweet site I have seen that the plugin used for ac3 encoding is in fact ffmpeg coding ac3 engine. So basically you said "ffmpeggui is better than ffmpeg for ac3 encoding"
@Dr.Rock
At "Video" - "Encoding mode", select 3:2 pulldown when playback

[johns0]

And you're basically saying besweet is ffmpeg.

I`m just saying ffmpeggui is much better at making ac3 cause its interface is a lot more user friendly.

[sanjayk]

I think in TMPGEnc if you select the DVD template you will NOT get the "3:2 pulldown when playback".

So you may have to go as - new project > load your files > Select stream type as MPEG-2 and the only you will get the pulldown option under "Encode Mode"


Even Nero AC3 engine is based on ffmpeg !!