Can I capture Sony DV into avi file by ANY IEEE 1394 card?

[dcmwong]

Hi guys,

I am a newbie on capturing DV. Actually I have just bought a Sony DV and I want to capture the DV onto my PC. I go to the computer shops and found some cheap IEEE 1394 PCI cards which bundle with Video Studio 4 Special Edition. However at the same time I found some boxes like Studio DV which cost many times more. I just wonder whether just a IEEE 1394 card will be enough if I just want to capture the file into my harddisk and then convert to mpeg by some programs like tmpgenc? Or I need some special cards like those from Studio DV?

Actually what is the mechanism for DV capturing? Is the file captured just .avi file or I heard someone talk about DV format, what is it? Where can I find more on DV capturing?

Thanks, and please help......

- David

[PhArAoH]

All you need is a Firewire card and video capture/editing software (doesn't have to be very expensive unless you're going to to video editing as well). The program supplied with the card should be OK.
The captured file is of DV AVI format and can be easily converted to MPEG for burning as VCD or SVCD.
One thing you should ask for when shopping for Firewire card is to make sure that it's OHCI compliant.
Keep in mind that a one hour DV AVI will take about 12GB of hard disk space.

I hope this will help.

[jtor]

...though hard to admit, regular firewire card is NOT always the only thing you need.

I myself went for a cheap Dazzle DV Editor SE a few months back, came with Ulead VS4, and short clip transfers were fine. So everything went well until I tried to transfer a full 60min video to my PC...A/V sync issue past the 15min region. I've tried every tip/trick/advise I can get anywhere, but it didn't work. I just thought of going out and getting a firewire card which is DV-specific. And I'm glad I did that, because everything is working great with my new card.

I'd suggest you disregard the small amount that you'll save if you go and get the cheap firewire card, and just buy the Pinnacle StudioDV card (although that's not the card I bought). I haven't heard of any complaints yet about this card so I must be good....

my 2cents.

[EricB]

I use a CompUSA generic IEEE card which is OHCI compliant ($49.00). You are not really "capturing" the video, that has been done by the camera. The FireWire card is just transferring data from the camera to the computer like any other serial interface.

Conclusion, go cheap.

[tinycorkscrew]

jtor -

It sounds to me like Ulead Video Studio was your problem, not the firewire card.

I use a $19 firewire card and it works perfectly. Texas Instruments based firewire cards (and these days you'd have to look hard to find one that's not) basically perform identically.

[jtor]

================================================== =========

It sounds to me like Ulead Video Studio was your problem, not the firewire card.

I use a $19 firewire card and it works perfectly. Texas Instruments based firewire cards (and these days you'd have to look hard to find one that's not) basically perform identically.
================================================== =========

tinycorkscrew,

thanks for the input, but I've used some 'other' softwares (VS5/MSP6/Videowave) to transfer the video with this card. same results. I wish it was just the software...

thanks again.

[Joel0607]

What sources are you using, by the way? (DV from a camera? DV converted from analog?) - Just curious.

PhArAoH ... what would you recommend if someone were to capture DV and want to edit it, while avoiding sync problems, etc? Is there a particular software thats especially good for editing DV? Or am I supposed to convert to some other format?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Joel0607 on 2001-12-05 14:51:56 ]</font>

[wolly]

dcmwong,


My Athlon Presario comes with a firewire port built-in. Recent versions of Windows (from Millenium SE onwards) include Microsoft's capture software. It all worked out of the box. If you have this setup, all you need is a firewire cable. I did not even need to install a driver.

I also have an early Pyro card, which is about as generic a card as you can get and it has worked flawlessly even in an old 200 Mhz Toshiba Infinia under Win 98 once the driver was installed. It is now in a 400Mhz Compaq DeskPro and also works fine. Never drops a frame. Again, with recent windows OS, no driver was necessary.

There is a free capture program at:

http://www.puremotion.com

[wolly]

Aaarggh! I lied. Puremotion's edit studio has now gone
to Version 3 and the free copture program is integrated into the software.

Apologies....

[dcmwong]

Thanks for all your suggestions. Actually I have already bought one cheap card which is around $22. I got a CD with Video Studio SE and I don't really see a driver. However, when I install the card into my brother's Windows 2000 machine, the OS seems to be able to recognise the card without me putting in any special driver (other than the Windows installation disk). Does it mean I should already be able to get the captured DV file from the camera?

Maybe it is a silly question: if I want to capture the DV from my camera, what mode should I set in my camera? My Sony PC/9E has a "VCR" mode, an "Off" mode, and a "Camera" mode. Should it be set as VCR or Camera? Hope it is not too specific to Sony cameras.

Thanks a lot.

- David

[zeppage2]

vcr

[clk8]

"VCR" mode

[dcmwong]

Wolly,

Thanks for directing me that website. It says the video capturing and other system tools should be still usable even after the software 14 days trial period ends, but the other functionality doesn't. I will try to download it tonight to try it out.

Thanks.

- David

[Panash]

Try DVIO at

http://mcarr.eecs.umich.edu/dvio/

PN

[PhArAoH]

Joel0607, I use Adobe Premiere 6 for all my capture and editing needs and it works great. I never had any sync. problems as some people claim to have.

dcmwong, you didn't mentioned which operating system you're using but note that Windows 98 doesn't support Firewire, the support for Firewire was added to Windows98SE and later versions od Windows. Firewire card is plug and play comaptible therefore you don't need to install any drivers. However, camcorder drivers are needed to capture DV. There are two camcorder drivers you can use, Texas Instruments and Microsoft DV drivers. I personally preferr Microsoft DV drivers as they work great with Premiere. Some Video Capture/Editing software support only one of the Camcorder drivers therefore you should seek advice before buying any software.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: PhArAoH on 2001-12-06 04:35:28 ]</font>

[jarry]

some software capturing doesn't get beyond the 2GB file size limit in some Windows OS. I don't know if W2K has 2GB limit. if your software doesn't you'll be limited to about 10-15 min of video at a time (capture file size). Some products get around the limit like Pinsys Studio v7 and allow unlimited file size.

[tinycorkscrew]

Panash is right about DVIO. It doesn't do anything fancy, but it captures without dropping frames. I edit with Premiere, but I capture with DVIO because it is more reliable.

[PatMar]

u can use Studio 7 software or Adovew Premiere 6.0 version to capture with an standard IEEE card.
you can also use Ulead and MGI but I'm not into Ulead or MGI (bad expereans for me)
check out:
http://www.pinnaclesys.com/ProductPage.asp?Product_ID=469&Langue_ID=7
http://www.adobe.com/products/premiere/main.html#

[Joel0607]

Hmm, I heard about that 2gb capture limit, but don't know much about it.

Does Adobe Premiere 6 have problems with this? Has anyone captured a high-res DV source longer than an hour (12gb+) on a Windows system? If so, what software were you using and were there any problems, or tricks you used?

I will probably be capturing DV, editing with Premiere. And I expect some of my captured files to be pretty lengthy. I hope to sort out all these issues before I begin my adventures.

[punk ass]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-12-05 09:22:13, EricB wrote:
I use a CompUSA generic IEEE card which is OHCI compliant ($49.00). You are not really "capturing" the video, that has been done by the camera. The FireWire card is just transferring data from the camera to the computer like any other serial interface.

Conclusion, go cheap.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

I bought this card too, but I can't get it to work. I have a Sony DCR-TRV330 with a W2K Adv Server SP2. BUt I've narrowed the problem to my machine. When I plug in my camcorder Windows will see it then it doesn't. I thought maybe it was my firecable so I tried it on a different machine and it worked fine. I thought maybe it was the card but I tried a different one and I had the same problem. I checked the driver and it's dated 1999. I checked technet for it said I'm using the right driver but I don't know where to find a updated driver. I'm assuming there is one after 99. Anyone know the answer to that?

I also thought about blowing away my os and reinstalling. Anyone have a suggestions?????

thanks
e

[jarry]

@joel
I too am in the thick of decisions for my new DV cam. I'm going with StudioDV7 (Pinnacle) for capture&editing (the DV in the title means it includes a firewire port).I found SDV7 for under $100 at http://www.2buystore.com in Miami. you can get Studio7 w/o the port if you already have one or want a different one. I don't think the port matters much as long as it's recently new. the software is what allows you to capture,edit,etc. not the port. it's just a hard interface for the data. I know studio7 goes beyond the 2GB limit allowing long files. some others do too. some dont obviously. another thing I like @ Studio7 is it allows you to downlaod an hour of DV in "preview" quality using only 150MB. you do all your editing with that and then when you're ready S7 downloads it in full quality 14GB for 1 hr, edits it all like you instructed and puts it back on DV camera or stores on harddrive in dAVI. from there is where I am still searching for the best ($50 or less) authoring software. i'm not convinced I want Pinnacle's product for that (Pinnacle Express) b/c it doesnt do miniDVD from what Pinnacle is telling me. if someone could prove that wrong would be great. otherwise I'm looking at Nero or Ulead for authoring. I'd like to hear your conclusion from your search as well.

[punk ass]

I found the solution to my problem!! Yippee, me does victory dance!! lalalalalala

a word to the wise, you cannot directly plug in Sony Digital8 camcorder to a firewire/1394 card. You must first plug in a firewire/1394 device and then plug ur camorder into that device.

the words from Sony:

Description:
Are Sony Camcorders OHCI Compliant? DCR




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Solution:
OHCI (Opens Host Controller Interface) is used to describe DV/FireWire/iLink/IEEE1394 capture cards. OHCI compliance are standards set by Microsoft.

NOTES:

*Sony camcorders do not fall under OHCI compliant guidelines.

*OHCI compliant standards are for computer components only.

*Sony camcorders are compatible with all OHCI compliant devices.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: punk ass on 2001-12-07 23:38:59 ]</font>

[jaw2957]

Just ordered my dv camcorder, and before I get going, I want to clear something up. Some mention the software "capturing" the dv video, like a video capture card. Thats what it sounds like because you are talking about dropping frames, etc. I was under the impression that the video is already in the correct format and is just being transfered to the pc with the firwire card. I have also heard you can send the dv faster than realtime(ie the card is not capturing, its transferring). Someone please help me out. it will save me alot of time when my piece finally comes in!!

[wshuhua]

I'm going to buy new Creative sound card which has fireware/1394 device.
Did anyone use this card to download VHS to computer before?
Good or not?
Thanks

[wshuhua]

Can you tell me where can I buy $19 fireware card?
Thanks

[PhArAoH]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-12-07 17:32:02, Joel0607 wrote:
Hmm, I heard about that 2gb capture limit, but don't know much about it.

Does Adobe Premiere 6 have problems with this? Has anyone captured a high-res DV source longer than an hour (12gb+) on a Windows system? If so, what software were you using and were there any problems, or tricks you used?

I will probably be capturing DV, editing with Premiere. And I expect some of my captured files to be pretty lengthy. I hope to sort out all these issues before I begin my adventures.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>


1. OS using FAT have a filesize limit of 2GB
2. OS using FAT32 have a filesize limit of 4GB
3. OS using NTSF have a filesize limit of 1000GB. This is more than any of us will EVER need for our video capture/editing needs.

I use Premiere 6 with Windows XP (NTFS) and have captured a 2 hour video (24GB)from my SONY D8 (TRV320e) in one go without a single dropped frame. Belive me, it was worth upgrading to Windows XP.

Tricks/Tips:

When you capture from Firewire make sure you have no other programs running in the backround, not even a firewall or virus scanner and equally important, you must defrag your hard disk on regular basis. It is advisable to have a dedicated drive/partition for video capture/editing.

[PhArAoH]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-12-08 00:11:42, jaw2957 wrote:
Just ordered my dv camcorder, and before I get going, I want to clear something up. Some mention the software "capturing" the dv video, like a video capture card. Thats what it sounds like because you are talking about dropping frames, etc. I was under the impression that the video is already in the correct format and is just being transfered to the pc with the firwire card. I have also heard you can send the dv faster than realtime(ie the card is not capturing, its transferring). Someone please help me out. it will save me alot of time when my piece finally comes in!!
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

It's true that DV video is not captured video. I (as well as many others)still refer to this process as capture.
The video from camcorder is already in digital format (1's and 0's) so the Firewire card doesn't do any conversion therefore data is copied to the hard disk on the fly.
Even so, you could still have dropped frames.
This could be for many reasons, usually something associated with processor/hard disk sped, size od RAM or other programs running in background etc etc.

AFAIK DV can't be sent to the PC via Firewire faster that real-time.

[Joel0607]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-12-08 11:44:00, PhArAoH wrote:

1. OS using FAT have a filesize limit of 2GB
2. OS using FAT32 have a filesize limit of 4GB
3. OS using NTFS have a filesize limit of 1000GB. This is more than any of us will EVER need for our video capture/editing needs.

I use Premiere 6 with Windows XP (NTFS) and have captured a 2 hour video (24GB)from my SONY D8 (TRV320e) in one go without a single dropped frame. Belive me, it was worth upgrading to Windows XP.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

WOW! I had no idea on the limits of FAT32. I'm still using WinME, so it looks like I'm going to 2k or XP. There is no way around this FAT32 limitation? Or I suppose piecing together multiple 4gb files to create your 1-2 hour video wont look right. (Also, how would you describe the quality of that 24gb file. That is really good, right?)

This has been soo helpful. (Thanks VCDHelp!)

Also, how does one find out the sustained throughput of your hard drive to make sure it can handle a minimum of 3.5mb/sec+ ? All the specs for my hard drive say "up to" 40/50 mb/sec. (Which doesnt mean its always that way.)

Is it safe to say that most NEW (within the past few years) IDE drives 20/30gb+ are capable of this?

[EricB]

One way around the 4G file size limit is to use a capture program like Scenalyzer (www.scenalyzer.com) which will capture in seamless chunks. You can bring those into a program like Premiere, butt them together in the timeline, and watch up to 3 hrs of video. Frameserve using avisynth to TMPGenc to convert this to VCD / SVCD.

Punk ass, I'm glad you found a solution but I don't believe you have to do anything special with an OHCI compliant card and a Sony Digital8. I installed my card, WindowsME used it's own drivers, connnected FireWire, captured. No other nonsense required.

Finally, this is more of a file transfer then a "capture". You still get dropped frames when the source video has abrupt breaks in the data steam. In an 18 minute transfer, I usually have 0, 1 or 2 dropped frames.

[PhArAoH]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-12-08 12:40:09, Joel0607 wrote:

WOW! I had no idea on the limits of FAT32. I'm still using WinME, so it looks like I'm going to 2k or XP. There is no way around this FAT32 limitation? Or I suppose piecing together multiple 4gb files to create your 1-2 hour video wont look right. (Also, how would you describe the quality of that 24gb file. That is really good, right?)

This has been soo helpful. (Thanks VCDHelp!)

Also, how does one find out the sustained throughput of your hard drive to make sure it can handle a minimum of 3.5mb/sec+ ? All the specs for my hard drive say "up to" 40/50 mb/sec. (Which doesnt mean its always that way.)

Is it safe to say that most NEW (within the past few years) IDE drives 20/30gb+ are capable of this?
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

The quality of the captured video is the same as the original.
And, yes, you're right. Most (if not every) drive manufactured within the past few years can handle data transfers of 3.5 mb/sec.