I need advice on what DV cam to buy....

[Loner10]

I've finally decided to upgrade to a new camcorder after using an 8mm one for the last 6 years. Most of the things I record are sports like basketball, softball, wrestling, and family get togethers. I also like to make my own mini movies (which completely suck :P). Now I realize I need a firewire card and I have Adobe, Windows Movie Maker, TMPGEnc, VirtualDub (though I rarely use it), Ulead DVD Workshop 2, and TMPGEnc DVD Author so I think I've got the basics covered regarding capturing, editing, and authoring to DVD.

The only thing missing is the cam. I found a good one here: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1069297036128&skuId=6200808&productCategory...5&type=product and I wanted your opinion on it. If you guys know of any better ones in the same price range feel free to post them. I'm looking for a cam that's
a) reliable
b) has a battery that will last longer than 45 min (kicks old camera )
c) records at a decent to good quality
d) is around $500.
e) can take digital photos.

So what do you guys think?

[schematic2]

Your link didn't show me any camera...
I'd recommend the Canon Elura 65 for the price and features...

[jdw]

The link is for a Samsung SC-D107. Eh, not crazy about Samsungs meself.

I recently bought the Pana PV-GS120 and am happy with it.

Canon's are good and are known for their lenses, but their consumer DV cams are not famous for indoor/low light shooting if plan on doing any of that.

I have a ZR65 (granted, not an Elura) and it sucks for indoor shooting.

Here's a site to visit if you haven't already.

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/

[daamon]

I second jdw's recommendation of that site - an excellent place, seemingly with knowledgeable and helpful people much like another video-related site I know. Can't recall the name though...

If you can find a camera in your budget that has 3 chips (referred to as "3CCD") then you'll get better quality than one chip. I'm not very familiar with any of the plethora of DV cams that are out there to make any recommendations.

In short, it's the chip(s) that receive the light and convert it to electrical signals. A 3 chip cam has one chip dedicated to each primary colour - and so why it's better than one chip.

Also, if you want to take pics, try to find one that takes a media card of some description - SM (Smart Media) or MMC (Multi Media Card). Any pics you take can be saved to card as JPEG files, rather than having the tape run for a few seconds and you having to try and find them on the tape.

Pics saved on tape are a bugger to get to JPEG and invariably end up not looking as good as card-saved JPEGs. I have to save my tape-saved pics on my older Sony as AVIs and then take a screen shot - messy.

With pics, some cams (more so the older ones) save at 640 x 480 - OK for viewing on a PC, but not good if you want them a decent size and printed out.

Hope that helps some... Good luck.

[edDV]

Consider going a few bucks higher for one of the 3CCD Panasonics http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/panasonic-pv-gs120-camcorder-review.htm

[VideoTechMan]

You're better off buying a seperate digital camera to take pics with....camcorders are made to shoot video--not really take pics, and the quality of the pics from the camcorders usually arent good at all. If you want good high quality pics then a digital camera is best suited for the task.

VTM

[thecoalman]

I'll 3rd JDW's link, that site is great..

And I'll second VTM's advice, video cams are for video. I wouldn't consider the digital images it can take as a reason to buy it. Even my high end Canon GL2 doesn't take very high resolution pics. There only 1.8 megapixels and at best would look nice on 5x7.

[Loner10]

Thanks for the responses, guys. I'm taking a good look at the links you've provided and you've made my decision alot easier. I really appreciate it.

[FulciLives]

This might perhaps be considred "thread hi-jacking" but I think it goes well with the original post ...

What is the "cheapest" miniDV cam that has a real manual focus ring?

Seems like most of the cheaper models only allow manual focus through a menu system which sounds like a really poor substitute for having an actual real working focus ring.

I can't imagine not having one.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[edDV]

All the original Digital8s had manual focus.
Cheapest on ebay is the DCR-TRV103.
I haven't been tracking the low end MiniDV.

[jdw]

The Panasonic GS-200 has a manual focus ring. Can't tell ya if that's the cheapest one, but I think you would be hard pressed to find one in the $500.00 range with a focus ring.

[logixrat.01]

Actually I have seen a couple of cams in the $500 to $600 range that have focus rings, just no zoom rings. I think it was either Sony or Canon. I've been reading too darn many reviews to recall exactly. Speaking of reviews, you definitely need to check out http://www.camcorderinfo.com. They have an extensive list of reviews on various models. It will give you a headache reading and digesting all the info.

The Samsung you linked to is rated very poorly in comparison with other cams in that price range. I would suggest a different one. As previously noted, the GS120 is highly rated, but is a little higher than $500. You could stay home a few weekends to save the extra $$ or you could wait until Feb/Mar to see what new models Panasonic introduces. With new models come price reductions of old models, and the GS120 might slip into your price range.

I will point out that while the GS120 is highly raved about, they do lack a good image stabilization system like some of the Sony, Canon, etc. models have. That means if you have shaky hands and don't want to use a tripod, then your video might be less than desirable. Some say it's horrible, some say it's not that bad. I haven't had a chance to test hands on, and can only confirm it will get worse with the more zoom you use. Also, there is an issue with the LCD solarizing, which means light and different angles makes it hard to see. It's simple to fix, you either tilt the LCD to a different angle or tilt your head/body a different direction.

The nice thing about the GS120 is the use of 3 CCD's. The downfall is they are only 1/6 in size. The comparable Sony HC85 uses 1 CCD but it is 1/4 in size. Because the Sony has a bigger CCD, many people report it having a more sharp/crisp look than the GS120. However, the GS120 gets better reviews on vivid colors. Which is better, sharper pictures or more vibrant ones? I think it's a matter of preference. To the untrained eye, probably either would be fine. Just remember, bigger is better and 3 is better than 1.

Again, I highly suggest you check out the Camcorderinfo.com website. There is alot of good info over there. In particular you might like their "best camcorder" shootout they recently did. They grouped the cameras into different price categories. Here is a link:

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/CamInfo-Select-The-Best-Camcorders.htm

[edDV]

The fears for the GS-120 and 200 were that low light may be noisy due to the 1/6" CCD's but camcorderinfo rated them ok for low light.

Assuming this is one's only camcorder, I would want analog inputs and "analog pass-through" for TV and VCR recording. The fact that CamcorderInfo's choice, the PV-GS14 lacks these features is a concern for me.

[jdw]

The low light performance of the GS120 is actually very good. Little to no noise when set up properly.

The LCD is a shortcoming for this camera. You do have to be looking at the LCD straight on, which can be annoying when trying to manual focus and adjust the gain and all.

It seems almost all consumer grade cams are going down to the 1/6" CCD range these days and are marketing more towards still picture features and schtuff that attract consumers away from the main function of DV cams...video performance.

[FulciLives]

I looked into the Panasonic PV-GS120 and PV-GS200 and as I recall they are pretty much identical ... for the most part ... but most important to me: The PV-GS120 does NOT have a manual focus ring whereas the PV-GS200 does have a manual focus ring.

If you buy on-line the price difference between the two models is very little making the PV-GS200 the one to go for ... at least in my view.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[yg1968]

If you want the camcorder to be compatible with your Hi8 stuff, you can buy a digital 8 camcorder from Sony. The TRV-460 is a good digital 8 camcorder.

If you prefer a smaller DV camcorder, I would also recommend getting a Sony. Be careful not to get their lowest price model (for example avoid, the DCRHC20) as they take out a lot of interesting features out of their standard camcorders in order to reduce the price.

One interesting feature available in North America on most Sony camcorders (except their lowest miniDV or digital 8 price model) is the passthrough feature which allows you to use the camcorder as a capturing or recording device. For similar price ranges, Sony probably has the best camcorders available.

[ktnwin]

at camcorderinfo.com, all the infos are displayed with a gray box covering the informations I want to see. Very annoying.
Does anyone have this problem or just me.

[thecoalman]

Screenshot? Looks fine to me.

[Bstansbury]

loner10,...

I'm not sure you've made your purchase yet,... you didn't post any decision. Anyway, I would suggest one thing that may affect your decision. You indicated that you have been shooting 8mm video for the last 6 years. That could work out to a lot of old family movies that I don't thing you would like to get rid of.

I purchase 2 years ago a Sony TRV-740, which was $750 at the time. It takes 8mm DV in full resolution. It is considered as good as BetaSP digital cameras that professional use. The difference is in the CCD size and the quality of the lense. Even though,.. it is a great camera. It has unlimited features and firewire, USB, NTSC, in/out, and Digital Pass through are some of the key ones.

One thing that I really love is that when I take one of my old 8mm movies I shot in 1990, with Canon camcorder (that is 2 cameras back for me), it captures them in DV in better quality than they used to play back on my old cameras. What makes this possible is that the Sony converts the analog video to Digital on the fly in the camera, and saves each frame in a time base correction memory before it transmits it via firewire to my PC. The eliminates all jitter, tracking, and all noise. When I put an old tape in the Sony, it reads it with much better head technology than was in my old cameras, and as a result there is less noise, etc. It also coverts it to 720x480 Digital Video on the fly. Now I have all my old video coverted to DVD's in the best quality I could have expected. I still shoot in 8mm because I thing the new miniDV just puts too much strain of digital data on a small amount of tape. The recording density for miniDV is more that 5x of 8mm, but the video resolution is not any better.

I wish you could see some of my old videos converted to DVD. Go to the Sony web site and check out their camera. Then look on the net for sales. There are always plenty on sale.

If you have more questions, just post them.