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  1. Member FulciLives's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Tom Roper
    Originally Posted by FulciLives
    Of course but the original vidoe and audio are the same i.e., no re-encoding takes place.

    - John "FulciLives" Coleman
    That's great, but what if one burner is laying down the track with 100x more parity errors? Wouldn't you expect the likelihood of playback problems to go with the disk having the worse burn quality?

    All I'm saying here, is with (2) different burners, you have more variables at play than just the logical authoring. There are the physical variables also.
    So what are you saying?

    That the Panny stand alone DVD recorders have piss poor DVD burners or that the 2 different computer based DVD burners I have used are exceptionally error free burn perfect models?

    - John "FulciLives" Coleman
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  2. Originally Posted by FulciLives
    So what are you saying?

    That the Panny stand alone DVD recorders have piss poor DVD burners or that the 2 different computer based DVD burners I have used are exceptionally error free burn perfect models?

    - John "FulciLives" Coleman
    Although I might have avoided your colorful characterizations, the substance of your remark is possibly quite accurate.

    Below are a couple of disk quality surface scans I made 2 days ago using the same media I.D., AN31 made in Hong Kong. The first burn was made on my E80h. The second burn was made on my desktop burner. The parity errors made by the E80H are fully 10x greater than those made by the desktop burner. But BOTH disks are within acceptable limits, so it is only illustrative.

    *ALL* DVD players should be able to play disks that have sum8 parity inner errors below 280, sum1 parity inner fail errors below 5. And any disk with errors below those limits is considered passable, and should be playable in ALL players. But some burners may improve upon those limits by 10x or more, creating a disk that is is more tolerant of fingerprints, scratches, improper storage etc.

    But when those limits are exceeded, SOME PLAYERS WILL STILL BE ABLE TO PLAY THEM seemingly without problem, where others will begin to experience freezes, skips and stutters.

    This is the scan of a 1x burn made on media I.D. AN31 on the E80h Panasonic DVDR. It has parity errors more than 10x of the other burner, yet it should still be playable in ALL players.



    The following scan was made on Plextor PX716UF on the same media.
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  3. A better test to prove or disprove that the playback problems are caused by the authoring and not the burning:

    1.) Burn a DVD-R on the Panasonic.
    2.) Use a DVD-ROM drive to copy the Panasonic disk image to the PC.
    3.) Use a desktop burner to Re-burn the Panasonic-authored disk image to another DVD disk.

    Compare THAT disk to the one burned on the Panny, or compare it to the one authored with TMPGEnc DVD Author.
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  4. Originally Posted by Tom Roper
    A better test to prove or disprove that the playback problems are caused by the authoring and not the burning...
    Did you also read my test ?
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  5. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Using DVD Shrink or TDA (and prior to Shrink/TDA's existance, some rather nasty arcane methods) has been a staple trick for Panasonic owners as far back as I can remember ... mid/late 2002 or so when the standalones were being sold in stores at non-insane prices.

    In effect ... re-authoring. This is not new to me at all. Not all of them showed this flaw, but a great many did. People often don't notice because they use the recorder as a player.

    I get e-mails about this all the time: "My Panasonic discs quit working", etc. Once you get the discs on the drive, especially if you try to edit, you run into AC3 errors, as the Panasonic-generated AC3 streams are often flawed.

    So there's another tip for you:

    1.. If you want to edit the MPEG files, do it on the Panasonic. Or get another recorder if you want to edit on the PC with zero flaws.

    2.. If your discs "quit working" then re-author in DVD Shrink or TDA. Merely re-copying to new media will not often fix there, as the error is an authoring flaw.
    Want my help? Ask here! (not via PM!)
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  6. Originally Posted by donpedro
    Did you also read my test ?
    I read your test(s), but what did you test? You tried things, yes...

    But the Panasonic authored disk played in 1 of your 3 players. If it was the authoring, why not 0 of 3?

    Another of your tests was to rip the files from the Panasonic, re-author and burn with another burner. If it was the authoring you wanted to test, you needed to rule out the possibility the second burner was not simply making a more readable disk. In which case you should have copied...not ripped and re-authored because that changed 2 things at once.
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  7. Originally Posted by Tom Roper
    But the Panasonic authored disk played in 1 of your 3 players. If it was the authoring, why not 0 of 3?
    I don't know... but my guess would be that chips used in 2 players can handle something that 1 can't If I knew answer I would write it down long time ago.
    Originally Posted by Tom Roper
    Another of your tests was to rip the files from the Panasonic, re-author and burn with another burner. If it was the authoring you wanted to test, you needed to rule out the possibility the second burner was not simply making a more readable disk. In which case you should have copied...not ripped and re-authored because that changed 2 things at once.
    "In which case you should have copied..." I did that.... Ripped DVD from Panasonic to HD on PC and burned it on PC to DVD from same batch as the original. Result was unplayable. That is why I asked you if you read my post.
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  8. Yes donpedro. I read your post(s). Can we talk about the substance?

    Which to summarize, you laid out a scenario where two years ago you used a friend's E30 to copy one VHS tape. The DVD you burned did not play on your Daewoo 5800, or one other un-named player but did play on a 3rd. You concluded that the authoring was bad because you were able to get it to play when you re-authored. Above, you postulated the reason why, that it is your guess that the chips used in 2 players can handle something 1 player can't.

    Meanwhile in one of the threads you linked, shhas stated that a disk burned on his DMR80 would not play in the Daewoo 5800 but did play in 5-6 others. Another poster, bobinga stated that his Daewoo will not play disks burned with his E50, but that he took it to Circuit City where it played well in 3 different players.

    If you add those observations to your own:

    1.) E30/E50/E80 authored disks played well in 10/13 players
    2.) E30/E50/E80 authored disks did not play in 3/13 players
    3.) Of the 3 named players not playing all were Daewoo 5800!

    Edit: The above list is not complete. One guy cited an Apex player and another guy cited a portable DVD player as incompatible. Still another guy cited disks burned with his E20 was compatible with both Daewoo 5800 and 5900. Still another guy cites E55 is compatible with Apex.
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  9. Anybody check this one out?

    rioh
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    Joined: 06 Nov 2003

    Posted: Nov 12, 2003 22:19

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I'm newbie here, but I just say:

    I had a chance to "verify" a DVD-R which was made by E20 with using "DVD-VIDEO Verifier" which is released from DVD Forum to ensure that data and disc structure meet the DVD-VIDEO spec.

    The answer is: THERE IS NO ERROR.

    So I think problem is NOT the Panasonic recorder's authoring software.
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  10. DVD-Video Verifier...$500

    ...guess I won't be checking this one out anytime soon
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  11. Originally Posted by Tom Roper
    DVD-Video Verifier...$500

    ...guess I won't be checking this one out anytime soon
    Some time ago I came to same conclusion...

    Let me finish our discusion with this... we can't blame all the issues on media quality or compability or high bittrate. There is more to it
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  12. Originally Posted by donpedro
    Originally Posted by Tom Roper
    DVD-Video Verifier...$500

    ...guess I won't be checking this one out anytime soon
    Some time ago I came to same conclusion...

    Let me finish our discusion with this... we can't blame all the issues on media quality or compability or high bittrate. There is more to it
    I'm not blaming the issue on anything. I'm not even acknowledging that one exists.
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  13. Folks, with your permission I'd like to retract that last comment, fold my cards and acknowledge that donpedro is right.

    I received a private email that offered the assurance I sought to confirm the authoring issue. While I haven't noticed it, most of the disks burned from recordings made with it were in fact re-authored using TMPGEnc DVD Author.
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  14. Member ann coates's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by zorankarapancev
    2. Never use XP mode (1Hr) recording if you have the intention to play recorded discs on other players. Some DVD players are choking (stuttering and freezing) playing DVD’s from Panasonic machines recorded with this high bit rate.
    Is this only the case with the Panasonics or all DVD recorders? Does anyone know if this is true for the Pioneer 520 as well? I ask because I'm using the Panny E85 to dub some videotapes and I do find they simply look better using XP mode. I have the Pioneer 520 as well, but have too much trouble dubbing tapes with it as every so often I get a black out, so I gave up using it for dubs.

    So how much of an issue is using XP mode when playing the DVDr's on other recorders going to be? I have one Panasonic DVD player and one JVC. Would the XP recorded DVDrs likely play ok on the Panasonic DVD player I have or am I simply asking for trouble using XP mode?
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  15. Member FulciLives's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ann coates
    So how much of an issue is using XP mode when playing the DVDr's on other recorders going to be? I have one Panasonic DVD player and one JVC. Would the XP recorded DVDrs likely play ok on the Panasonic DVD player I have or am I simply asking for trouble using XP mode?
    As far as I can tell there is no issue with Panasonic XP mode if you re-author on the computer with something like TMPGEnc DVD Author.

    - John "FulciLives" Coleman
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  16. Member ann coates's Avatar
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    The only problem is I don't currently have a PC DVD burner..
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  17. If you don't have trouble with XP mode, why do you even bother with this issue ? As soon as you come across that problem, you know now how to fix it.
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  18. Member ann coates's Avatar
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    Well, I don't know if I have trouble with XP mode, I've never made a DVDr using it. I just recorded some video dubs to my hard drive using XP mode and they looked quite a bit better than SP mode. That's all I know. As far as now knowing how to fix it, as I said, I don't have a PC burner.
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  19. Member FulciLives's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ann coates
    Well, I don't know if I have trouble with XP mode, I've never made a DVDr using it. I just recorded some video dubs to my hard drive using XP mode and they looked quite a bit better than SP mode. That's all I know. As far as now knowing how to fix it, as I said, I don't have a PC burner.
    Well if you are posting here you have a computer and a PC DVD BURNER is all of $100 ... if not much less these days.

    So just buy one.

    - John "FulciLives" Coleman
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  20. Member ann coates's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by FulciLives
    Well if you are posting here you have a computer and a PC DVD BURNER is all of $100 ... if not much less these days.
    So just buy one.- John "FulciLives" Coleman
    So I assume since you're suggesting a PC burner that the answer to my original question is that it's a definite problem playing XP recorded discs on other recorders. ok then, thank you for the reply.
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  21. ann coates,

    I think that we have spent enough time explaining that the XP recording mode CAN be a problem for SOME of the DVD players (budget category). As donpedro said:

    If you don't have trouble with XP mode, why do you even bother with this issue ?
    You shouldn’t agonize over something that doesn’t affect you at all.

    On your comment:



    Well, I don't know if I have trouble with XP mode, I've never made a DVDr using it.
    There is simple way to find out if you have ANY problem: make ONE DVDr and test it on ALL of your DVD players.

    P.S. I agree with your statement that the XP mode yields the best PQ.
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  22. Member ann coates's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by zorankarapancev
    ann coates,
    There is simple way to find out if you have ANY problem: make ONE DVDr and test it on ALL of your DVD players.
    P.S. I agree with your statement that the XP mode yields the best PQ.
    Thank you for clarifying this. So it is mainly an issue playing the discs on older (or budget) players then. I wasn't aware the problem presented itself quickly and easily which is why I haven't even tried burning one yet to test it. Anyway, I'll burn a disc in XP mode and see how it goes. None of my players (or my friends for that matter) have any trouble playing the Panny E85 DVDr's I've made in SP mode. Hopefully it will be the same for discs recorded in XP mode. I have 4 DVD players actually (none are budget brands) so I'll find out.
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  23. Finally I got some time to put my hands on the new Panasonic DMR- ES10S.

    And now some tips and tricks with for this recorder :

    1. To use or not to use an LP mode of recording? If you need to record anything between 2 and 3 hours use FR mode of recording. You will get same SP resolution with less digital artifacts. LP mode is fine for recordings images without fast motions.

    2. Be careful with the new DNR recording filter. If you record videotapes with excellent picture quality turn the filter OFF. When the VHS tape has occasional problems, set the filter on AUTO (this would be the most appropriate setting for general recordings). Make the setting ON only with the exceptionally troublesome VHS tapes.

    3. Stay away from XP recordings if you want to use those recorded discs in the budget class DVD players. You will get occasional stuttering and even freezing of the picture. Panasonic still uses its proprietary hardware and software, which are well known for this kind of performance.

    4. The remote control unit from the previous Panasonic generation DVD recorders also works with the new models in full capacity and without any problem.

    // crosspost "review" has been removed .. do not cross post
    // https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=272629
    // only the tips and tricks have been left intact
    // - moderator lordsmurf
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  24. If you have the PAL version of the Panasonic DMR-ES10 recorder you can change PAL-NTSC recording systems if you wish. Select factory PAL preset when connecting to PAL or Multi-system TV screen and when you want to record from PAL equipment. At this setting, programs recorded from NTSC equipment will play as PAL 60. Select NTSC if you want to record from NTSC source (VHS or DVD players) and when you are connected to an NTSC TV set.

    Instruction for changing PAL to NTSC system:

    1. While the recorder is stopped press "FUNCTIONS".
    2. Press “UP/DOWN” symbols to select “TO OTHERS” and press “ENTER”.
    3. Press “UP/DOWN” to select “SETUP” and press “ENTER”.
    4. Press “UP/DOWN” to select “CONNECTION” and press “>” (“RIGHT”).
    5. Press “UP/DOWN” to select “TV SYSTEM” and press “ENTER”.
    6. Press “UP/DOWN” to select the TV system and press “ENTER”.
    7. Press “<” , “>” (“LEFT”, “RIGHT”) to select “YES” and press “ENTER”.
    8. To exit the screen press “RETURN” several times.

    Another simpler way to change PAL to NTSC setting:

    - While the machine is stopped, press and hold “STOP” and “OPEN/CLOSE” buttons on the main unit at the same time for about 5 seconds.

    People who travel around the world or are in the business of dubbing and converting VHS tapes and DVD’s may find this option useful. Unfortunately, for some reason it is not available in the NTSC version of this recorder sold in North America.
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  25. Member
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    This feature is also available in the version sold in Latin America.
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  26. Member ricoman's Avatar
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    zorankarapancev: I read your post on setting the HYBRID VBR RESOLUTION to fixed for the E60, can this be done on the ES10? I can't find the setting. Also, can bitsetting or booktype be reset for the +R media to DVD-Rom so that it will play on my friend's standoalone?
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  27. ...setting the HYBRID VBR RESOLUTION to fixed for the E60, can this be done on the ES10?
    No.

    ...can bitsetting or booktype be reset...
    No. What is the brand of the player and what is his problem?
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  28. Member ricoman's Avatar
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    I'm not sure what the brand is, it's an older model and won't play +R media unless I set the booktype to DVD-Rom. Unfortunately (for him), most of my media is +R (my preference). +R media won't play on my work computer either, a year old Dell with some kind of NEC DVD combo drive.
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  29. Member ricoman's Avatar
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    The ES10 apparently automatically sets the booktype of +R media to DVD-Rom and plays on all the computers and standalones that I mentioned. Nice feature.
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  30. Member
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    Zoran, Great tips! Since this thread was started before the Dmreh-50S came out I wonder how much of the information you & others posted apply to this newer model.
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