Newbie Gripes & Complaints About "The Experts"

[tekkieman]

Ok, I guess I can't walk away that easily, but at least I'm not upset over anything you said. I would however like to hear how you would have handled one particular situation that occurred just a couple of weeks ago. Of course, the threads are locked, and I wish they were viewable for this discussion, but I'll give the short version.

A newb posts a typical newb question (the wedding video guy for all you who saw it). Jimmalenko attempts to help (as usual), and post an answer with a link to a few guides. The OP immediately posts back and says he doesn't have time to read any guides, and someone should just give him an answer or shut up. Daamon tried to help him, and suggested some specific guides. Then the guy really got rude! The whole situation was hilarious from an outsider's view, but I would love to hear how you would have handled that with the level of "respect to newbs" that you're seeking.

I will of course give you this. The general forums should be devoid of a lot of the crap that is there. Sometimes it is just too hard to pass up a little levity though, and there are several threads that could use them (e.g. Stilt's poster on the thread that won't die on RE2). The day OT becomes devoid of crap is the day I leave for good.

OT is an escape in otherwise boring days. I will venture out of it on occasion to help where I can, as I feel I owe at least that much back to the community. I usually only hit the computer or programming sections since that's where my (for lack of a better word) expertise lies. Considering I am a software developer for a digital video company, you would think I know more about video, but I don't (don't tell my employer). The big problem is, when you venture out, and see the 125th post in a week saying DVD Shrink won't back up RE2 (and 3 or 4 post in a row on the same subject), one tends to get irritable. I will typically duck back into OT, or switch over to the linux forums. I don't really get off on bashing newbs. It's far more fun to bash bazooka over his SP2 threads. Sorry bazooka! :P

[bazooka]

It's far more fun to bash bazooka over his SP2 threads. Sorry bazooka! :P

[tekkieman]

It's far more fun to bash bazooka over his SP2 threads. Sorry bazooka! :P

[Shadowmistress]

MackemX, I understand how you feel. I'm not siding with anyone, you or the others, but I see both sides equally.

You want first time newbies to have a pleasant experience visiting this site for the first time and want the site to be friendly and professional, and regulars want to limit the garbage they have to wade through when trying to help others for free by lending their hard earned expertise.

The problem is that each side is expecting more from the other because they can't give more than they already are, and the lack of newbies "knowing the ropes" is what I think is causing the friction.

I approach the problem as if this was a corporation with long time management and new employees. I think of middle management and look at it in terms of improving the training manual for newbs.

I'm currently working on an idea for a "tour". If you have any ideas to contribute to the training manual, I'd love to hear them.

[MackemX]

@offline, I've very rarely used the report post and I have never been cautioned for my behaviour towards other members. I have been thanked for my assistance by some when they are under attack and I guess I will always act like a big brother if I see someone getting undeserved grief. Most of what I may pick up isn't worth reporting though but still has an effect of feelings between members . Personally I don't think the rules are clear enough and I've raised that matter a few times

I could list numerous examples of posts that don't really apply within the current rules but instead I will ask one simple question

is it OK to bash a newbie if they deserve it like some regulars feel it is?

as you know I've been and still am in places a mod unknown to people here. I know this may be taken the wrong way as I don't want to question the mods actions here. So nobody should take this as an attack or flame about the mods here as they do a great job. The only thing is, I see many posts where regulars are regularly disrepectful to newbies or people they feel are inferior to them knowledgewise. I know some are dealt with but some never seem to be given a friendly nudge in the right direction on how to behave . Maybe, along with what I see in other forums, it's my mod head that makes me feel this way as some require me to do this

you are saying I can't push regulars into line and respect that. I'm sure if I step out of line I will be put in my place. On the same note though, shouldn't regulars also not be allowed to push newbies into line and let the mods deal with it?. One difference is though I do think about what I post before I push and I don't look for trouble as I'm trying to help get rid of that crap

it's impossible for the mods to be everywhere, all the time and every little helps from regulars. Surely you don't disapprove of a regular trying to increase forum morale if done correctly? . I don't think I've ever been reported by a fellow member for being abusive but I sure as hell know I won't from now on 8)

[MackemX]

@Shadowmistress, newbie bashing is is just one of the thing I'm addressing as regulars also bash regulars

I know there is a problem both sides. The thing is newbies come here unprepared and are the unknown factor in the equation. Whereas regulars know what's going on here at videohelp. They just increase the problem by trying to preach to the newbie in the wrong manner . I know I preach to regulars but I hope and like to think it's having a positive effect

I saw your posts about the guide and had a quick look at your pages and it's an excellent step in the right direction. If I think of something I will shout up

I think regulars could change rather quickly if it was made clear to leave newbies alone regardless of what is said to a regular. Above offline has just put out a good post regarding what people should do but will everyone see it?, will everyone actually take notice?

if most did see it and most did take notice then that alone would seriously make an impact on these forums regarding this issue

I know this place is a great place to be, even now, that's why I'm here . All I'm hoping is that most of the uneccesary crap can be disposed of

@tekkieman, these days I don't think any newbie could make me post anything like we are discussing here if at all . I'm a big boy now as it's my 7th birhday next week . I would be interested to read the thread though

[thecoalman]

I suspect your going to get little more advice.....

are you saying you know the newbie bashers may get hold of him to give him the proper advice? :P

No I think I was trying to point out the fact that there was little other advice to be offered. It's pretty simple problem, disc doesn't play in standalone. A quick glance at the DVD player section or trying the things I suggested in most cases would have alleviated his problem....But "naw that's not it" Frankly I hope he's still sitting there pulling his hair out burning -R or +R one after the other wondering why it won't work in a player that will only play -RW's :kaput:

[jimmalenko]

Oh the irony ....

@MackemX:
Firstly, you post this in OT. OT is the place where forum rules are "relaxed" re: threadjacks, chatroom behaviour, etc etc. and this has led to OT being member-only. I still stand by the statement that this should be in the feedback forum. If it's good enough to give the "regulars" a pep-talk, then it's only fair that the newbies can see this also. It also doesn't take a rocket-scientist to work out that your accusations are obviously against people who frequent OT, which I find offensive in itself because there are a number of truly great people here.

To whoever it was that pointed out that you're attacking regulars, I can't agree more. If you're a mod elsewhere, then surely you should know better than to incite and antagonise people like you have with your rants over the last few days. There are processes in place (Report this post, PMing mods/baldrick) to handle shit like this. Instead you go and threadjack a few threads with your opinions, which IMO is very hypocritical considering what you're talking about!

This is an internet forum. There are going to be dickheads here, that's a given. Accept it, get over it and move on I say

[AlecWest]

Hi, me again. I just had a question. This is the site's description of the "Feedback" forum area:

Feedback
Site and forum feedback, is something good, wrong, bad or ugly? Also suggestions for new features on this site are welcome here.

And, the topic title is Newbie Gripes & Complaints About "The Experts". While I expected regulars to show up, it was primarily meant for comments from noobs. I think my first post in this topic area fully conformed with the definition of "Feedback." Why, then, was the thread moved to "Off Topic" ... guaranteeing that noobs wouldn't see it?

[bazooka]

Oh the irony ....

@MackemX:
Firstly, you post this in OT. OT is the place where forum rules are "relaxed" re: threadjacks, chatroom behaviour, etc etc. and this has led to OT being member-only. I still stand by the statement that this should be in the feedback forum. If it's good enough to give the "regulars" a pep-talk, then it's only fair that the newbies can see this also. It also doesn't take a rocket-scientist to work out that your accusations are obviously against people who frequent OT, which I find offensive in itself because there are a number of truly great people here.

To whoever it was that pointed out that you're attacking regulars, I can't agree more. If you're a mod elsewhere, then surely you should know better than to incite and antagonise people like you have with your rants over the last few days. There are processes in place (Report this post, PMing mods/baldrick) to handle shit like this. Instead you go and threadjack a few threads with your opinions, which IMO is very hypocritical considering what you're talking about!

This is an internet forum. There are going to be dickheads here, that's a given. Accept it, get over it and move on I say

Thank you.

I was patient b4 but my patience is wearing thin with his incessant whining.

Mackem, if you hate it so bad, then sign out and leave.

Where is my beating a dead horse picture?

[tekkieman]

@tekkieman, these days I don't think any newbie could make me post anything like we are discussing here if at all . I'm a big boy now as it's my 7th birhday next week . I would be interested to read the thread though

Here you go!

Also note that he posted the same question three times! Do a search on all his posts. Much more of the same. Before you jump on jimmalenko for his "RTFM" response on one of the threads, just remember that he posted the same thing three times. I think jim's RTFM was on the second (or third) such post.

[MackemX]

@jimmalenko, wrong thread regarding the OT jibe but why even bring it up again? is it to incite me into a raging reply?

anyway, OT has nothing to do with this in the slightest as this is a general forum wide problem

if you noticed I posted that the only ones who would take offence are the ones in question. I'm not attactking all regular not am I attacking any individual. I'm raising a concern in one way and it sure has got everyone's attention. If I was all mousey mousey about it then people may not have noticed it. I already stated that some of my posts are actually shock tactics to get people to notice. Do you take offence at what I am moaning? Please point them out but in the mean time accept my apologies but there are things I see here that justify my recent posts

lol , I know there are dickheads here but there's quite a few of them here though that seem to roam freely that spoil it for others

[bazooka]

I know there are dickheads here but there's quite a few of them here though that seem to roam freely that spoil it for others

Like you for example.

You immediately passed judgement on me thinking I was a dick.

I did nothing of the sort.

If you are a mod at another site, then go mod that site and STFU already.

[jimmalenko]

if you noticed I posted that the only ones who would take offence are the ones in question. I'm not attactking all regular not am I attacking any individual. I'm raising a concern in one way and it sure has got everyone's attention.

No, you've posted in at least two threads that are in OT, so your exposure so far has only been to OT regulars. You haven't got everyone's attention - you've got all of OT's attention. If you want everyone's attention, post it in feedback so everyone site-wide knows about it and it shows up on the front page and in the latest active topics. From waht I can tell so far, no-one here agrees with you. Maybe if you do post it in feedback a few newbies will spring to your defence. "Thanks Big Bro"

You're entitled to your opinion, but I don't agree with about 80% of what you've said.

[thecoalman]

Here you go!

He even pissed off Daammon, didn't think that was possible considering his encyclopedic responses.

[MackemX]

@bazzoka, what's up mate, is this getting on your nerves that people are sick of seeing the crap here and some have decided speak up? Will it spoil your fun if members are brought into line?

I said I would be told if I didn't like it then leave and go elsewhere and your the first to claim that title

@tekkieman, thanks for the link mate but let's raise the fact that nothing was said to anyone else regarding that thread before being locked , so it will just happen again, again and again. Yeah the guy started to get nasty but is the OK for people to rip him to bits just because of the really lame things he said?

is it that hard that people can't just walk away after trying to help and just say have fun by yourself?

[Doramius]

I sense tension here. I think it's time for a tesion headache drug. everyone take 2 Excedrin and shoot themselves in the head. If you're alive tomorrow feel free to post your results and let everyone else know how you did it. Thank you.

[MackemX]

I know there are dickheads here but there's quite a few of them here though that seem to roam freely that spoil it for others

Like you for example.

You immediately passed judgement on me thinking I was a dick.

I did nothing of the sort.

If you are a mod at another site, then go mod that site and STFU already.

If you are joking then I can accept that all in fun . If you are not joking then you are showing your true colours

which is it?

I'd be interested to know. If it's a negative response try to keep calm so this thread isn't locked just because you flipped . If it's a positive response then you will laugh off what I just said in this post

[bazooka]

@bazzoka, what's up mate, is this getting on your nerves that people are sick of seeing the crap here and some have decided speak up? Will it spoil your fun if members are brought into line?

I said I would be told if I didn't like it then leave and go elsewhere and your the first to claim that title

@tekkieman, thanks for the link mate but let's raise the fact that nothing was said to anyone else regarding that thread before being locked , so it will just happen again, again and again. Yeah the guy started to get nasty but is the OK for people to rip him to bits just because of the really lame things he said?

is it that hard that people can't just walk away after trying to help and just say have fun by yourself?

The only crap that is going on is your complaining. This is the OFF TOPIC forum. I visit the other forums as well and assist mainly in the computer forum because that is my specialty.

I am not the only person who is having issues with you. Jim has also had issues with you.

[Cobra]

C'mon. Let's keep it civilised, guys.

[Doramius]

C'mon. Let's keep it civilised, guys.

Only if you spell civilized properly.

[bazooka]

I know there are dickheads here but there's quite a few of them here though that seem to roam freely that spoil it for others

Like you for example.

You immediately passed judgement on me thinking I was a dick.

I did nothing of the sort.

If you are a mod at another site, then go mod that site and STFU already.

If you are joking then I can accept that all in fun . If you are not joking then you are showing your true colours

which is it?

I'd be interested to know. If it's a negative response try to keep calm so this thread isn't locked just because you flipped . If it's a positive responce then you will laugh off what I just said in this post

You started it in the poster above you thread. I am not showing my true colors. If memory serves, then you called me a dick first. How is that for respect, you hypocrite?

If you want respect, then you have to respect others. Maybe you were absent from school the day the teacher was instructing the class on that subject.

[Cobra]

EDIT - bazooka, I have taken into consideration the fact that your post was probably been written whilst I said to keep it civilised. I am being pushed closer and closer to dealing out formal warnings for posts like that.

Drop it, right now. That goes for everyone who is being disruptive.

Cobra

[thecoalman]

Back to VideoSilva, he liked me.... https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1155321#1155321 I thought I vaguely rmembered that post.....errrr 3 posts.

[bazooka]

EDIT - bazooka, I have taken into consideration the fact that your post was probably been written whilst I said to keep it civilised. I am being pushed closer and closer to dealing out formal warnings for posts like that.

Drop it, right now. That goes for everyone who is being disruptive.

Cobra

[MackemX]

LMAO, bazooka, you had me puzzled there as I couldn't recall calling you a dick recently, if ever. For anyone who doesn't know what I'm talking about here is my post.

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1176409#1176409

I actually called jimmalenko a dick and if you read the post I explained why. We had a run-in so he was a dick for that short while before we resolved it and now I respect the guy (as I did before he was a dick) and have said that also in the forums. You gotta be kidding me if a simple post like that is worthy of being crossed of your christmas card list if it had been directed at you.

did I not send you a PM actually complimenting you on your post regarding what you though of me as I thought it was hilarious?

@jimmalenko, as I said being in OT has nothing to do with it so let's forget about that, I get your point and it's noted for next time I have a rant . I'm not on a crusade to boost my ego, it's already overfolwing so I don't need the support of newbies . I also respect your opinion on the subject and it's nice to see you agree with 20% of what I say 8)

I can recall a recent posting where I may have helped to improve the mood in the thread as it could have easily turned nasty due to skip2mylou overlooking all jimmalenko's help. This is what I mean when I say I will kick ass

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1164497#1164497

jimmalenko get's an apology and everyone gets at hankyou out of it so at least he knows his efforts aren't in vain which can be frustrating

here's another recent one

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1173810#1173810

Am I really a big bad monster some may think I am?

[tekkieman]

I am not showing my true colors.

Bazooka - I told you there's no shame in being purple. Let the colors show! :P

[offline]

Thankyou Cobra.

@ MackemX

Bashing Newbies is a problem and has been
since a dark period here where bashing was seen
as a cool thing to do. Thankfully most of those
members have ether left or have changed their
approach. I really do not think it is much of a problem
at the moment.

As for the rules, common sense, decency and a
respect for others comes into play. If people don't
have a sense of those values it does not matter
what the rules say. Yes they could be extended and
yes Mods try and make them as clear as possible.

Baldrick is the only one with the final say and he
has left some ambiguity in the rules for a purpose.
I might also add that adding a page of new rules is
not going to help anyone.

BTW I appreciate your input and regard you as
a good member of long standing. Please excuse bazooka
as he is having a bad time at the moment.

[jimmalenko]

@jimmalenko, as I said being in OT has nothing to do with it so let's forget about that, I get your point and it's noted for next time I have a rant . I'm not on a crusade to boost my ego, it's already overfolwing so I don't need the support of newbies . I also respect your opinion on the subject and it's nice to see you agree with 20% of what I say 8)

Well, that's part of the 80%

I just think it's a bit unfair to throw accusation at OT regulars for being solely responsible for the state of the forums.

[MackemX]

@offline, yeah maybe I am going overboard about newbie bashing but I think we could all agree, although it can't be stamped out it could be slightly better . It's probably a combination of a few things that has got me started recently

that 2nd post I linked to is another example of what I mean

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1171146&highlight=#1171146

agani not a perfect example but its the comments that enflame the situation I can't agree with

sifaga again with a harmless comment to everyone, but possible not the OP

after I posted trying to chill the mood the thread was locked as lordsmurf could see what was going on. He has his reasons for closing it and I can think of a few but I PM'd him saying I'd rather it was left open. This was so that people don't carry the mood onto other threads . I'd rather people walk away happily than disgruntled. I also mentioned that a certain person could have also been told that their comments didn't help the situation. I apologised for sending the PM but I guess it me and my mod head again as well as caring for the forums