What Are the Limitations on CCE Basic Trial Verison?

[rkr1958]

I'm going to try out DVD Rebuilder w/CCE Basic for backing some my large DVDs (such as LOTR) and compare that to results I've gotten using DVD Shrink and Instant Copy. I'm in the process of downloading and installing everything I need.

The only non-freeware software that I need for this is CCE Basic. I've downloaded and have installed the trial version. I didn't see anything about what the limitations of the trial version are. I even went to their website ...

What are the limitations of CCE Basic Trial?

[BJ_M]

doesnt it put a watermark on your files ?

[canadateck]

Yup you will have a watermark on everything.But Audio..

[archaeo]

watermark, 30 day limit, 8 min video limit, 2 VBR pass limit, some settings limitations.

However, it's the same encoding egine as the SP. I've used it w/ RB for many backups and it has worked very very well. And at $58 vs $2000, it's a bargain.

[BJ_M]

not the same engine exactly -- i tested this once ..


also SP is on version 2.7.01.007

[archaeo]

from doom9:

Q2: What are the differences between the various versions of CCE?

There is a detailed feature comparison at the Cinemacraft web site. Basically, CCE-Pro is a hardware MPEG encoder intended for professional applications and outside of the scope of this forum. CCE-Basic is CCE SP with several advanced features removed and multi-pass VBR encoding limited to 2 passes.

CCE FAQ:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=53770

[BJ_M]

not true (plus i just checked with visblelight) .. as of this version anyway .. some more differences than that

(i own CCE SP 2.70 if that makes any diff) ...

i would say fairly similar though - but pluging same settings in both , you will get different quality and different speed ... if same engine - the speed should at least be the same .. Even though CCE SP now does add pulldown when encoding ..

procoder is somewhat a little the same - the mpeg engine in both the ful and lite version is the same but no mastering mode in lite version.

[rkr1958]

watermark, 30 day limit, 8 min video limit, 2 VBR pass limit, some settings limitations.

If I understand this and all of your post correctly then I won't be able to use the trial version with DVD Rebuilder because of the 8-minute video limit. And even if I could the resulting backup would have a watermark in it. If this is so, then my next question ...

I already own TMPGEnc Plus. From what I've read (and I don't want to start a flame war here) CCE Basic produces about the same quality results but is faster. Assuming that's true for the moment ... the main reason I'd want to buy CCE Basic is to use it with DVD Rebuilder. I was hoping to use the trial version to evaluate this but ...

I'd appreciate opinions ...

[BJ_M]

you can use QuEnc instead (free)

[rkr1958]

you can use QuEnc instead (free)

How's the quality?

[archaeo]

you could just edit out a short clip (<8 min) with Shrink and run it through CCE basic, QuEnc, etc.. and compare.

[archaeo]

(i own CCE SP 2.70 if that makes any diff)

nice 8)

DVDRB isn't supporting that version yet, but I think he's getting around to it soon.

[BJ_M]

(i own CCE SP 2.70 if that makes any diff)

nice 8)

DVDRB isn't supporting that version yet, but I think he's getting around to it soon.

prob as soon as a working warez release is out

[archaeo]

lol

[rkr1958]

http://www.visiblelight.com/mall/catalogview.aspx?cat=170

Cinema Craft Encoder Basic (Download) for $58.00 ==> affordable and I'm considering it for DVD Rebuilder.

Cinema Craft Encoder SP for $1,950.00 ==> That's way out of my league ... I'd think that only video professionals and semi-professionals would own this product. Also, I find it amazing that DVD Rebuilder, a freeware program, and the DVD Rebuilder guide (from doom9.org) makes reference to SP version. I guess a lot of video professionals and semi-professionals are into backing up their DVD collection.

[BJ_M]

its not that amaizing really when you notice that all screen shots say 'trial version" or "no name" ..

a registered copy doesnt ...

[archaeo]

Cinema Craft Encoder Basic (Download) for $58.00 ==> affordable and I'm considering it for DVD Rebuilder.

I'd say it's worth it. I purchased the trial version (2.69), and I have had great results using it w/RB. The limit of two VBR passes really hasn't affected the capability of creating quality backups. From what I've read on some of doom9 CCE tests, 2 passes is often more than enough for even the most demanding compressions.

[rkr1958]

I thought I'd give you an update. I installed DVD-RB following the guide I'd found at doom9.org. I choose to use QuEnc (a free MPEG2 encoder) and to backup Passion of the Christ. I choose this movie because the titleset containing the movie is 7,824,920,576 bytes!

Well it took about an hour to install everthing according the guide. Four minutes to configure it to run for the movie I selected. Around 400-minutes to encode. Then I went to rebuild and got Error 0006: DVD-RB has ... If you follow this link, I found the solution near the bottom of the page. The problem had to do with some obsurce AVS setting, AudioDub(BlankClip()), which the guide recommended be enabled. I disabled this option. Reconfigured the run (4-minutes), encoded (400-minutes) and rebuild the DVD (10 to 20 minutes). This time it worked.

I next used DVDShrink to transcode the DVD.

Bottom line: I really can't tell any difference between the original movie, DVD-RB version and DVDShrink version. Even playing them on my 19" Flat Panel Monitor. I've only looked at couple of scenes for all three in detail. I did play the DVD-RB one on my TV and it seems fine. There were a lot of dark looking scenes but I think this was just the nature of the movie.

[archaeo]

Bottom line: I really can't tell any difference between the original movie, DVD-RB version and DVDShrink version.

That may be the case in many situations. There are variables which effect the result, like overall bitrate in the movie and complexity of scenes. In low-medium bitrate situations with plenty of action scenes, encoders will usually outperform transcoders. Try and make your decision for transcoder vs. encoder more on the overall (avg) bitrate that will be attained as opposed strictly to the percentage of reduction. And, if you really want to apply a 'benchmark' test, try backing up 'Saving Private Ryan' with shrink, RB/quenc, and finally RB/CCE (basic)... You should see a difference there. It's good you are trying these tests out for yourself 8)

[winifreid]

I think the older version (2.50) of cce doesn't have all these limitations. If you don't see any difference with the original, then threre isn't a point in using cce. I have found RB difficult to use, at least compared to Shrink. And I have not found a movie that RB compresses better than Shrink. But I haven't tried SPR or a big screen TV.

[rkr1958]

And, if you really want to apply a 'benchmark' test, try backing up 'Saving Private Ryan' with shrink, RB/quenc, and finally RB/CCE (basic)... You should see a difference there.

I only own 'Saving Private Ryan' on VHS. However, I do own the Band of Brothers 6-Disc set which has similar types of battle scenes shot from the perspective of a wartime cameraman (i.e., the picture is unsteady).

Band of Brothers was my first DVD backup, which I did two years ago. I just put each of the 10 episodes on a single DVD (which was cheap Accu DVD-Rs 1x media).

I ran a backup of disc1. QuEnc took over 500-minutes to encode. That's 8-hours & 20-minutes+ !

So, ... I bit the bullet and purchased CCE basic. CCE basic took around 100 minutes ... 1-hour & 40-minutes!

What a time difference. CCE Basic using 2-pass VBR encoded the movie, which was over 2-hours, in less than 2-hours ... faster than real time. It this for real?! If so, this is so much faster than TMPGEnc Plus 2-pass VBR.

The only thing left is to check the quality ... but CCE Basic is fast.

[winifreid]

SPR is very long, as well as, full of explosions. That is why it tests a shrink to the max. Did you use rebuilder with cce? If so, I am amazed at the time. It would take my setup close to 6 hours to do this. Also, the real comparison is with shrink.

[rkr1958]

I don't want to beat a dead horse but as a long time fan and advocate of TMPGEnc Plus I am quickly becoming a convert to CCE Basic. I'm in the middle of backing up my 6-DVD set of Band of Brothers and I'm just amazed. It takes CCE Basic less than 2-hours to encode w/2-pass VBR one disc, which is over 2-hours of material. Also, the quality looks great ... I can't tell it from the original.

RB w/CCE basic is faster than Instant Copy 7. How in the world can that be! A 2-pass VBR encoder is faster than a transcoder.

Is CCE somehow taking advantage of the original source bit rate to encode so fast? If not, then does this means that CCE Basic can encode w/2-pass VBR DV camera or TV captured AVI that fast?

So far I can't tell any difference between the quality using CCE basic or TMPGEnc Plus ... if this holds true then I'm CCE convert.

What am I missing here? Why is CCE's 2-pass VBR so much faster than TMPGEnc Plus? That is, 2-hours versus 6 to 8 hours or so for 2-hours of source.

[vhelp]

If you look at the consisitancies w/ previous TMPGenc's, you'd see that they all
pretty much were the same speed throughout the whole tree of versions.
My guess is that the *speed* is being held back on purpose, until its a good
time to release it.
.
In all the years that TMPG has been in development, one can't help but to believe
that the developer is that clumsy to not be able to speed up TMPG. I believe
that the dev'pr has the ability, but is purposely leaving it out (for other
reasons beyond our approval)

That's how I see it. Speed is being held back.

-vhelp 3032

[BJ_M]

If you look at the consisitancies w/ previous TMPGenc's, you'd see that they all
pretty much were the same speed throughout the whole tree of versions.
My guess is that the *speed* is being held back on purpose, until its a good
time to release it.
.
In all the years that TMPG has been in development, one can't help but to believe
that the developer is that clumsy to not be able to speed up TMPG. I believe
that the dev'pr has the ability, but is purposely leaving it out (for other
reasons beyond our approval)

That's how I see it. Speed is being held back.

-vhelp 3032

part of the speed issue (according to developer) is the rgb conversion ...

and another is they use a very slow style of motion vector analysis , much like pixel tools used years ago (which was slow also) ..

as you said - you wonder why this can not be improved upon ...