"Open Water" was terrible.

[handyguy]

Only 81 minutes long....That should have been an indicator.

"Isn't it supposed to be based on a true story?"

Dunno how that could be since neither came back. Guess they just imagined it.

Try watching JAWS by comparsion

[offline]

[bigmicka]

so facts are facts even though no one actually saw it or documented what happened? remind me never to hire you as a lawyer.

if a tree falls in the woods does it make a sound?

mic

[offline]

so facts are facts even though no one actually saw it or documented what happened? remind me never to hire you as a lawyer.

if a tree falls in the woods does it make a sound?

mic

Well I'm not a lawyer, but here is a legal answer.

A reasonable person is likely to believe on the
balance of probabilities that a tree falling would
make a sound even if unobserved. A coroner can
then make a finding that the tree made a sound.

Adam, your legal expertise please?

[adam]

I'll go with that, although I'm not sure a coroner would know how to do an autopsy on a tree

I'm not sure what will come of this but here goes. From a legal standpoint, basically its all considered just evidence until ruled on, stiplulated to and/or waived, or taken on judicial notice. A reliable eye-witness account would just be better evidence then an inference based on circumstantial evidence. Either one could be established as fact as a matter of law either during trial or after a final ruling.

I think the best way to describe it is an inference as to the most probable events that occurred, based on all known reliable information.

Whether or not an unobserved tree makes a a sound when it falls? I'm guessing a court would just take judicial notice of that. (accepted as true as a matter of common knowledge.) Philosophy be damned.

I'll probably rent this movie despite the reviews here. Sharks scare the crap out of me thanks to "Jaws."

[BJ_M]

I broke into laughter when I saw the trailer at the theater. I thought it was one of those fake movies they use to get the audience to turn off their cell phones

The quality of the video was very poor.

the whole movie was shot on handheld MINI DV (really)

[Rookie64]

Based on a true story - key words based on


No movie based on actual events can be completely factual...unless it's actually recording the event as it happens.


This story caught the eye of the filmmakers, and they thought it would make a good basis for a movie...the movie itself is a made up story altogether.


For those who haven't seen it, don't be discouraged by bad reviews.
The movie held my attention from beginning til end...and it's well made.

Worth a look, but not a movie I'd watch more than once.

[offline]

Thanks Adam

I'll go with that, although I'm not sure a coroner would know how to do an autopsy on a tree smile.gif

[bigmicka]

the tree was a gag question anyway. but in its case the tree had fallen over, there is the evidence that it would have made a sound. but in the cases of people being pronounced dead without bodies its a whole other ketle of fish.

a coroner made a legal judgement on what happened to the couple. that they perished at sea. the dive company was liable for what happened cause they left them at sea.

they found the wetsuit of the female and it had tears in the bottock region, supposedly made by sharks. tears in the buttock region, but no body in the wetsuit? what happened did the shark peel her like a banana? if she was being attacked by a shark i dont think the first thing on her mind would have been, i gotta get out of this suit.

is it possible that the she could have been dragged along a coral reef? inflicting similar damage to the suit but not actually killing her? still having the possibility of being able to get herself out of the suit once she hit a shore?

the coroners have to make a decision on what happens in these cases, but unlike a death in public, or fire where their is hard evidence and a conclusion made, a case where there is little evidence and no bodies the coroners will make a decision based more around the need for closure to the families, with a heavy load of speculation to what actually happened.

if they had hired a boat on there own and done this dive and was never seen again, the decision of the deaths would be the same. but in this case the dive operators bear the responsibility for what happened to them even though what happened to them is not actually known.

i dont purport to know what happened to them or have any affilitaion with said dive operator. if this was the case then any person lost at sea around australia in the last 200 years, can all be put down to them being eaten by sharks. Harold Holt eaten by shark? stolen by Japanese mini sub? or was he just unlucky enough to drown and his body never found?

mic

[offline]

1) It is an official record of fact that the couple died at sea.

2) The dive operator was acquitted and thus is not guilty as
a matter of fact under law.

3) Coroners can not influence their findings to support the "need for
closure" for families. Where, on the balance of probabilities, the events leading up to a death is uncertain, an open verdict must be made.

4) The inquest into Holt's death was ruled open, not
because of the lack of a body, but due to the fact
that the coroner did not have the necessary powers
of investigation in 1968. Had todays powers been
available then, the ruling is would have been accidental drowning according to many legal experts.

[handyguy]

"if a tree falls in the woods does it make a sound?"

Not around me, Im Deaf.

[BobV]

Sucked..

[bigmicka]

sorry offline i should have read that webpage in full.

you can tell my attention at the time was not fully on this case, or on much for that matter. lol

as for harold, i thought the case finally got closed last year as he would be well over 100 with no real chance of ever finding out what happened.

mic

[offline]

bigmicka,

I thought they were talking about re opening the
Holt case but I had no idea that they had done it.

Still you have to love a country that names a
swimming pool after a drowned or believed drowned
political leader.

I did not really think your argument about facts was wrong.
I was just taking the counter view and being
a general pain in the ass Of course we cannot
know the real facts behind the disappearance

[bigmicka]

yeh i understood. facts and facts of law, can be confusing.

we have so many of these unresolved stories that anybody basing a story around a story like the case of Open water, that it tends to get my goat a bit.

the distribution of movies like this promote the so called facts, that ignorant people may just believe it as truth (me being a good point in this case ). or if the facts get changed by stories in popular culture.

like the azaria chamberland story, the beaumont children, holt going missing or who was the first person to have powered flight?

maybe i shouldnt have read 1984 again recently.

mic

[handyguy]

"we have so many of these unresolved stories that anybody basing a story around a story like the case of Open water, that it tends to get my goat a bit. "

Same with The Perfect Storm.

[yoda313]

"we have so many of these unresolved stories that anybody basing a story around a story like the case of Open water, that it tends to get my goat a bit. "

Same with The Perfect Storm.

Hello,

Well Perfect Storm seemed to have more physical evidence than this open water movie (haven't seen open water but saw perfect storm).

The unreal part of perfect storm is that the crew would have been able to stay afloat after hours of battling mega waves like that....

Kevin

[adam]

Yeah this conversation reminded me of a Perfect Storm too. I remember one guy (maybe in this forum) was complaining about the ending. He thought they should have lived.

[yoda313]

Yeah this conversation reminded me of a Perfect Storm too. I remember one guy (maybe in this forum) was complaining about the ending. He thought they should have lived.

Hello,

??????????????

I thought it would be pretty obvious they couldn't survive that! Not to mention there would be factual "lost at sea" death certificates.....

Kevin

(edit - the guy you're talking about adam - not you obviously )

[handyguy]

Then watch Riding Giants. It just came out on dvd, you can see people surviving 60 foot waves.