VCD or DIVX !!!

[pinoy2201]

Can some please tell me why i should convert movies to DIVX instead of (S)VCD....VCDs can almost be played anywhere and DIVX can only be played on a computer for now....i wish someone out there can convince me

sorry if i posted on the wrong topic but i didnt know where to post this

[zaki]

DiVX compresses better than SVCDs. And it has a better quality depending on the bitrate that you chose (you can say nearly equals to DVD MPEG-2 quality) but can only be played on a PC. Resolution is also higher for DiVX. It depends on you, if you want to play the movie on an SVCD/DVD player, then convert to SVCD.

Go and read here, http://www.vcdhelp.com/svcd.htm

[Truman]

[pinoy2201]

Truman i wasnt very much convinced about that smile face suggestion...but can other of you guys try to convince me

[Truman]

Are you serious? Honestly I dont want to start another DivX vs. SVCD debate. Search the forum if you need some peace in mind.
Do you really consider to watch your movies on a PC screen or use a crappy TV out?
I don't.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Truman on 2001-12-03 16:03:09 ]</font>

[salvius]

I can't agree about TV Out because my TV out is just FINE unless I surf the net or something. With movies, it works great. DivX movies fit on one CD unless they are long or hard to compress. Divx is a wonder, really.

Recently, (read one day ago) I got DVD Anywhere and have used it to watch Divx movies. Unless you have Dolby Digitalm this is THE THING to get. It works with Prologic, and is something else. The thing cost me $110 (with shipping) Canadian, which is $70 US. If you don't have a TV-out you'll have to buy that too. Cost me much less than a DVD//SVCD player and it works so much better. AND, get yourself a nice wireless gamepad (they're still quite expensive), and you have a full entertainment system on your TV.

[Sefy]

Each format has it's purpose, pros and cons, and each person will have a diffrent view on it, and here is mine:

DivX - Pros:
1)Great for TV Episodes,
2)Fitting alot into a single CD to be played on the PC
3)Great quality for low bitrates

DivX - Cons:
1)Hurrible for watching using TV-Out, unless you got a Matrox
2)Can't be played on anything but a PC, and a strong one too!
3)Try using DivX to encode using same VCD settings, see how good that compression is, oh, what, it's larger ? I wonder why! because it's not optimized for high bitrates.

VCD - Pros:
1)Can be played on virtualy anything with a CD/DVD
2)Doesn't require a Super Computer to play, even 233 can do!
3)Great Quality (in the eye of the beholder! dont debate me!)
4)Easiest to use, also has Chapters support and Menu support
5)Fastest to encode and burn!

VCD - Cons:
1)Not highest quality on the PC
2)I can't think of anymore, sorry

Those are my opinions, take it or leave it, don't debate me, you got your reason and I got mine.

[pinoy2201]

Okay Sefy has convinced me ill stay with the beloved VCD ...thanx for Convinceing me Sefy

[Sefy]

You welcome, but I have a feeling the battle has just begun

[dumwaldo]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-12-04 19:04:43, Sefy wrote:
You welcome, but I have a feeling the battle has just begun </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

i wouldn't want to dissapoint you so...




<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-12-04 18:41:56, Sefy wrote:
DivX - Pros:
1)Great for TV Episodes,
2)Fitting alot into a single CD to be played on the PC
3)Great quality for low bitrates

DivX - Cons:
1)Hurrible for watching using TV-Out, unless you got a Matrox
2)Can't be played on anything but a PC, and a strong one too!
3)Try using DivX to encode using same VCD settings, see how good that compression is, oh, what, it's larger ? I wonder why! because it's not optimized for high bitrates.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

first i want to say about the TV out on the video card you are correct that most of them do suck however there are many makes of scan converters for under $100 that can competently output to a television at high resolutions. most TV outs just drop lines to render the proper resolution for a tv where a scan converter reprocesses the image and keeps the whole image in the output.

second i want to say you have the whole bitrate thing a bit confused. a VCD has 1150 Kb/sec of video, most DVD to DivX rips are approximatley 1000 Kb/sec. so they are using about the same bitrate and even have fairly close file sizes. the slight edge in file size of the DivX can be attributed to the 150 Kb/sec less video and higher compression for the sound. however the VCD is at a paltry 352x240 when the DivX is at a much fuller resolution like 640x344, about 2.5 times the size of the vcd. in a flat out quality debate DivX is the clear winner at any bitrate. it is about the compression and DivX can compress more actual video data into each bit than MPEG-1 can.

the evidence is right out on the internet... DVD to DivX movies everywhere and not a DVD to VCD one to be found anywhere. they use SVCD to do DVD rips because they need the higher bitrate to get the same quality as a DivX. the reason you never see super high DivX bitrates is simply because it is not needed if it can outperform other formats without even exceeding the VCD bitrate.

your comments about needing a decent computer in order to view DivX is sort of correct depending on your oppinion. i have a 533Mhz computer with a 32meg TNT2 video card. now i would say that mine is a very modest system by todays standards and it has no problems with DivX. if your computer is older than the actual DivX codec itself then you are right it probably wont play well.




<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-12-04 18:41:56, Sefy wrote:
VCD - Pros:
1)Can be played on virtualy anything with a CD/DVD
2)Doesn't require a Super Computer to play, even 233 can do!
3)Great Quality (in the eye of the beholder! dont debate me!)
4)Easiest to use, also has Chapters support and Menu support
5)Fastest to encode and burn!

VCD - Cons:
1)Not highest quality on the PC
2)I can't think of anymore, sorry
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

see now that first statement is in my oppinion very misleading. while it is true that virtually all dvd players will play VCD's a great many of them wont play the cdr or cdrw that you write it on. so if you plan to purchase pressed vcd's sure they will play but if you want to make your own you will need to make sure you get a player that supports the media. i wont even get into the reigon specific stuff that can prevent you from playing that VCD you just downloaded, all i will say is the player list sure is alot longer than the dvd hack list. also you will want to make sure they play on your friends DVD player before you announce that you are coming over with a great movie. with a DivX setup and a scan converter it is remarkably easy to make video tapes that are guaranteed 100% compatible with all players.

with regards to chapter support it is not very difficult to make a text file with the file names for the clips you want in the order you want them then save the file with an .m3u extension and use the playlist in a similar manner to chapters. i do think VCD has the advantage here but DivX is not completely crippled in this area.

typically it takes a DivX file about 1 to 1.5 times real time to encode and it takes a minimum of 4 times real time to encode a VCD so i have to assume that when you said fastest to encode you meant that it is so incredibly slow that the only way you will be able to tolerate it is if you allow your computer to do the encoding while you sleep so you dont notice it is using 97% of your processor for 8 or 12 hours.

now just to impart my own con here i do view it as a weakness that in order to make a VCD you are limited to a specific video and audio bitrate and a specific resolution that is generally not conducive with movies. if you wish to preserve the letterbox quality of a video you must sacrafice a great deal of vertical resolution where DivX can handle any bitrates and any resolution.
<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-12-04 18:41:56, Sefy wrote:
Each format has it's purpose, pros and cons</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

well there is one thing we agree on i guess.

don't get me wrong, i am not anti-VCD (anymore) and i would much rather burn a pair of cd's and chat online for 20 minutes than tie up a computer with the deadicated action of making a vhs tape. all i wanted to do in this post was convey the idea that DivX is not by any means inferior to VCD and in some cases is even superior.

whatever works for you is what is the best format. some of us think it is VCD and some of us think it is DivX. personally i dont think either format overall is superior to the other, i have simply armed myself for DivX or VCD so whatever comes down the pipe i am ready to handle it.

[Sefy]

Oh I love a good debate, let the struggle begin!
So I gotta spend more money just to get a decent quality DivX on my TV ?
I didn't get the Bitrate Issue confused, the only decent quality DivX i've seen being downloaded are around 700mb or more, and they still don't have the same bitrates as VCD, and not just Video, you are forgetting the Audio part as well!
Try encoding a DivX EXACTLY like you would a VCD, and tell me how big the file size turns out
Of course on the net people would download DivX, for once, they have a smaller download, and they convert it to VCD/SVCD later, they have no appriciation for quality, DivX gives the best quality for low bitrates, but the overall quality still sucks.
You can play a VCD on a 233mhz PC, I wanna see you playing a DivX movie on the same PC, is that possible ? I think not

Just about any DVD made from 2000 can play a CDR/CDRW, all the new ones even come out declaring it! how many do you see can play DivX ?
Oh, and by the way, there are no region problems in VCD, only in a DVD, VCD has no region protection.

M3U isn't true Chapters, it doesn't play smoothly, it would be like having several MPG files playing one after the other.
don't take me wrong, I do Chapters, but I actually rarely use it, but it is an advantage for those who do use it!

As for encoding DivX in realtime, well, I gotta see that to believe, not that i'm doubting what you say, but I gotta see it first on a regular system and not a super system, oh and it takes me 3 1/2 hours to go from DVD to VCD that is already burned on the CDR media

I Did say each has it's own purpose, DivX is for playing the movie on the PC, a VCD is for playing it VIRTUALY EVERYWHERE!
So at the end of the day, it all depends on how you watch the movie, taking your PC to a near by TV to watch using a scan converter or running cables all over the house, or taking the CD you just made, pop in the DVD Player and press Play

[revsitup@hotmail.com]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
Sefy
any idea where i can go to d/l movies other then morphues or kazaa, that carry more movies?
also i tried to convert fight club avi 526mb with tmgpec and it not do it, say it could not i forgot
the accutal error, maybe a bad d/l? look good on divx, i have all the software from nero to
adaptec gold, i have try enocoders but which is the best and faster? and will it keep the sound
when i burn to cdr for stand alone dvd player thank you
revsitup@hotmail.com
On 2001-12-05 05:31:17, Sefy wrote:
Oh I love a good debate, let the struggle begin!
So I gotta spend more money just to get a decent quality DivX on my TV ?
I didn't get the Bitrate Issue confused, the only decent quality DivX i've seen being downloaded are around 700mb or more, and they still don't have the same bitrates as VCD, and not just Video, you are forgetting the Audio part as well!
Try encoding a DivX EXACTLY like you would a VCD, and tell me how big the file size turns out
Of course on the net people would download DivX, for once, they have a smaller download, and they convert it to VCD/SVCD later, they have no appriciation for quality, DivX gives the best quality for low bitrates, but the overall quality still sucks.
You can play a VCD on a 233mhz PC, I wanna see you playing a DivX movie on the same PC, is that possible ? I think not

Just about any DVD made from 2000 can play a CDR/CDRW, all the new ones even come out declaring it! how many do you see can play DivX ?
Oh, and by the way, there are no region problems in VCD, only in a DVD, VCD has no region protection.

M3U isn't true Chapters, it doesn't play smoothly, it would be like having several MPG files playing one after the other.
don't take me wrong, I do Chapters, but I actually rarely use it, but it is an advantage for those who do use it!

As for encoding DivX in realtime, well, I gotta see that to believe, not that i'm doubting what you say, but I gotta see it first on a regular system and not a super system, oh and it takes me 3 1/2 hours to go from DVD to VCD that is already burned on the CDR media

I Did say each has it's own purpose, DivX is for playing the movie on the PC, a VCD is for playing it VIRTUALY EVERYWHERE!
So at the end of the day, it all depends on how you watch the movie, taking your PC to a near by TV to watch using a scan converter or running cables all over the house, or taking the CD you just made, pop in the DVD Player and press Play

</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

[Sefy]

I'll never know why you people love quoting so much something that was said a post above you, I can't figure out what teh question is in all that or what is the point if there is any

[Xer0cooL]

I've encoded a DVD to DiVX Low Motion at 109 kilobytes/s that's 872 kbitps with an MP3 Audio at 95 kbitps 44100HZ, at 512x384, at 23:27 and ended up with a size of only 157,960,192 bytes

Compared to a NTSC VCD of MPEG-1 143.75 kbytesps thats 1150 kbitps with an Mpeg-1 Layer 1 Audio 224 kbitps 44100HZ
at 352x242410, at 23:27 and ended up with the size of 241,652 kilobytes.

the DiVX is has a better Video output as for Audio the VCD is a bit better, when player on a computer at a higher resolution fullscreen the DiVX is still superior, cause it only need to stretch a fewer pixel than of a VCD.

so if you are planning to watch them on your PC then go with DiVX, but as for TV, VCD is fine.

and who said that you can't play divx on a low computer,
I can play a divx up to a resolution of 512x384 fine with my AMD K6 with multimedia extensions

[Xer0cooL]

of yeah i forgot to tell you that's it's only a 266 AMD K6

[Sefy]

Why don't you do a fair encoding ? encode a DivX in the SAME settings you would a VCD, using 1150kbps CBR for Video, and 224kbps CBR for Audio, and then compare the file sizes.

But again, I said EACH method is good for some use, VCD just has more compatibility, and isn't limited to a PC only.

And lastly, try playing DivX on a non-MMX 166mhz system, I wanna see you enjoying the movie then, while on the other hand I had no problem playing back a VCD on such a system, even as low as 133mhz, using the same TNT2 card.

[Xer0cooL]

if you do a exact comparison the divx will be more better and the file size would be close to a vcd file size i've done it a lot of time,

yeah even playing a vcd on 166 non mhz the quality suck,
my friend has a computer with that specification.
and the quality of the vcd suck.
so playing a vcd on a 166 non mhz pc is almost as worst as playing a divx

[Xer0cooL]

*playing a divx on a 166 non mhz* computer

[Sefy]

Every DivX movie i've seen (and god knows too many of them!) in VCD settings, the file size is nearly same or even larger, and the quality is worse, because DivX is not optimized for high bitrates, it's optimized for quality on low bitrates, same as MPEG1 not amazing in high bitrates like MPEG2 isn't for low.

Each format has it's own specifications, and is to be used for a diffrenet purpose, so for transfering movies on the net, you would obviously go for DivX.

For enjoying the movie, you'd go for VCD or SVCD or whatever, cause they will always have a better quality, not to mention colours.

And lastly, i've seen a 233mhz PC running VCD smoothly even at full screen, while DivX was barely going frame by frame, not to mention you had to install a codec to get it working, while any Windows95+ has a build it MPEG1 codec.

[Xer0cooL]

i've even encoded a 208kilobytespersecond DiVX and the quality is amazing, DiVX is optimized for every bitrate especially DiVX version 4

[Xer0cooL]

like installing a codec would take like 100 minutes.

[djvirus]

Actually I love divx. And as far as needing a fast computer to run divx movies. I have no problems. I have one old comp set up with the basics by my entertainment center. it is a p2 400 with 128 megs of ram and a old 2gig harddrive(just to have a os on it). Now This computer vid card is a diamond viper 550 with a tv out(pci at that). basically thing costed like 50 bucks(had a spare case)to put together. Now the normal TV out was sucky. Video was grainy on the TV. then I got that program TV tool. And now all those divx movies Look GREAT. Sound great to on the surround. Not as good as DVD(but hey what is). But It looks alot better than vhs. So I guess what I am trying to say is that you don't need a fast comp to play these movies. plus to build a system that plays divx doesn't cost much at all. In fact costs alot less than a vcd or dvd player. That's my opinion.

[Sefy]

djvirus, it doesn't need a fast computer, but you only have a Pentium 2 400mhz, with 128mb RAM and a Diamond Viper, sure, it's not a strong system, and you already have it, what about a Cyrix 200MX with 64mb and a 2mb PCI card which isn't much of an accelerator? how well do you think DivX will play on that ?

Some of you guys are forgeting not everyone can afford several systems, and not everyone has a Pentium 2 or 3 or 4 or 5, or any Duron or Athlon, some people STILL have old Pentium style PC's, cause that's what they can afford, and interestingly, it might be they also like to watch some movies, and amazing, DivX just doesn't work all that well, but wow and behold, VCD runs just fine even from the CD!

I Will repeat myself although I don't like doing that, DivX has it's purpose, and VCD has it's purpose, each format has it's own uses, and i'm not saying DivX stinks, I'm just saying it's not as high spread and compatible as VideoCD is, no matter what you say! VideoCD has existed for over 20 years
can you really beat that in compatibility ?

[djvirus]

I am not argueing over the compatability or how long vcd has been out(I know the answers to that) What I am saying is divx isn't as hard to run as everyone says it is. I know that not everyone has a fast cpu, all I am sayin is that the quality of divx movies(when taken from the right source) can be great. Just like some Vcd's (when taking from the right source and done correctly can be great. I have both divx and vcd movies that are really low quality. Yes, Vcd is more compliant with comps, and vcd player's dvd player's and stuff like that. But for the most part I was just putting it out there that divx can be played on older systems(not more than 3 to 4 years old)but old none the less. So from one Comp. tech to another, Sefy I respect your opinion, I love this sight. Divx is cool, VCD is cool,DVD is THE BEST! I am sure in another year something more cool will be out. PEACE!!!!!

djvirus
Comp aninmator
comp tech
DJ
movie Fan!!!

[sracer]

Sefy, some folks simply refuse to believe that there is NO single holy grail format for all purposes. For many people, when they get a new shiny hammer, everything looks like a nail.

The fact that VideoCD is more versatile is indisputable. The fact that Divx offers better compression is also indisputable, however Divx doesn't fair as well against SeVCD. I've found them to be comparable with the edge going to SeVCD for versatility.

Hardware requirements for Divx playback are significantly higher than VideoCD... that's a fact. VideoCD was designed with the MPC-1 spec in mind (anyone remember what MPC-1 was?! ) I can take my $200 IBM Thinkpad w/166Mhz MMX processor and turn it into a kicking VideoCD player. Divx files look like stuttering slideshows by comparison.

If it sounds like some of us are "bashing" Divx, it is only because some Divx proponents are claiming its usefulness beyond its true scope.

[djvirus]

Hummm.... In case my last post did not go thru I will post it again. Basically I said that This whole VCD vs Divx is gettin like AMD vs pentium. Thing or the ps2 vs xbox thing(well all know what better there!!!!) But realy there is no clear answer. That's why this discussion isn't going anywhere.
The simple fact that I was trying to make was that divx can be played on a low end machine. That's it. All of a sudden I am gettin hit with what about 486 cpu's and what not. Then I clarified myself and said a comp that was maybe 3 or 4 years old. (p2 300 and above). Then the response is I get basically "VCD is the standard"
all I am saying is that If you can afford the Hi fi DVD with the DD 5.1ex and the DTS. Then Do it!!!! If you got a 486 comp with a bubble screen and monochome monitor or something better than that then give vcd a try. Or if you got something like a p2 the try divx.
And for the dude that said standard was vcd. IT'S VHS. Man if you aint got nuthing bucks 5 bucks to your name you can get a bottle of coke, some popcorn and make it a blockbuster night!!!!!
Man I say we should say the hell with technology and go back to VHS. Go back to nintendo 8 bit, and sega master system. Man forget that. Lets do intellivision, and Beta max tapes(which where better than vhs). Yeah that would be the life

djvirus

[Sefy]

djvirus, please don't get me wrong, I didn't say DivX is the worst thing that existed (that would be Microsoft), i've said it time and again that each format has it's purpose, and I do respect your opinion, and i'm glad you respect mine.

Oh, by the way, VCDhelp isn't mine, it's Baldrick, credit goes where credit is due, and I don't take credit for something that I didn't do

sracer, I don't remember fully the MPC1 spec but I do recall it was a 16bit 44.1khz capable Audio Card and a 150k constant CD Player, don't remember what the Video Card was
Say, how come you are using SeVCD ? you sure you didn't get that mixed with SVCD ? I thought people didn't like SeVCD all that much

Oh and djvirus, don't take everything so personaly, i've learned not to as well
Oh and, LaserDisc rules

[Shabubu]

Can I just point out that the whole point of DivX is that you don't need all the 1150kbps of VCD, it is optimised for lower bitrates, this is the point. I did a lot of DivX b4 I started on VCD, firstly don't judge quality on what you get from the internet, that would be like saying VCD sucks because Xing encoded files looked crap. The quality of a DivX is all dependant on the person who encoded it.

DivX can be done at higher resolutions, in less space if care is taken, if your using your computer to watch movies (I have a 17" monitor and a 14"Tv, so it's obvious which I'd choose) then DivX is definately the way to go, cause we all know VCD doesn't look good on a monitor. If you want to watch stuff on a TV, then VCD is the way to go.

Also it is possible to make chapters, and full motion menu's for DivX, you have to use a player called MDVD, which supports a scripting language allowing you to make full motion DVD menu's (with selectable regions, no 1,2,3 button pushing), the player can be included on the CD allowing full autoplay in computer.

Basically if you plan to watch your movies on a computer then DivX is definately a superior format, if you want to watch on a TV, then VCD is better unless you already have the equipment required to play DivX.

PS, I'm willing to send samples to anyone that wants to be shown that DivX can be done well.

[Sefy]

Ok, I wouldn't mind a 30sec or 1min sample of a DivX quality with the smallest filesize and best quality you can arrange, I want to see how good it can get, do you accept the challenge ?

[djvirus]

Hey Sefy Laserdisc are pretty cool!!!!!!